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Sanken COS 11 vs DPA 4060
Old 25th April 2010
  #1
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rmx16's Avatar
 

Talking Sanken COS 11 vs DPA 4060

Any body compare the two? I'll be recording some string quartet stuff thru my MerticHalo box's. I know production mixers rave about them.They have to be low profile. And most of all the price is right.

Peace
Old 25th April 2010
  #2
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I have both, but have not done direct comparasons. Looking at the graphs DPA have only 3 dB lift at 14 kHz with standard grid (maybe no lift without the grid?), Sanken 8 dB at about 6 kHz. Too much, too low for music recording, but great for lavalier use. DPA 4060/4061 have been used by many with great results, by me also. They are sold as miniature microphones by DPA, also usable as a lavalier. Cos-11 is sold as a lavalier only, no suggestions for other uses by Sanken. That might tell also something.

(mics in the avatar: DPA 4060, in war...)
Old 25th April 2010
  #3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petrus View Post
They are sold as miniature microphones by DPA, also usable as a lavalier. Cos-11 is sold as a lavalier only, no suggestions for other uses by Sanken. That might tell also something.
Just to clearify, DPA never intended to sell the 406x series as music microphones. It was by efforts from recording engineers that they found out that their mics could actually provide great results.

Best,
Dirk
Old 25th April 2010
  #4
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I found this video comparing the Sanken and a MK2. To my ears the Sanken sounds more open then the MK2.

Lavaliere Shootout: Sanken COS-11D Vs. Sennheiser ME-2 at DVinfo.net

Peace
Old 25th April 2010
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtf View Post
Just to clearify, DPA never intended to sell the 406x series as music microphones. It was by efforts from recording engineers that they found out that their mics could actually provide great results.
Hi Dirk,

On what relies your statement ?
I've got the SMK 4060 stereo kit. On the accompanying notice, there are 5 pictures, one presenting the contents of the kit, one where the mic with its boundary layer mount is on a pylon in a church, one where two are hung above the tail end of a grand piano, one where two mics are put on the frame of a grand piano by means of their magnet mounts, one where the mic is on a drum. Also provided with this kit is the user's manual for the 4060/4061/4062/4063 miniature ominidirectional microphones. The cover picture shows a mic on the soundboard of a guitar. Inside there are two 4 other pictures where the mic is on a instrument (guitar, resonator guitar, piano, violin, saxophon) and only one picture where it used as a speaker microphone. On their web page presenting the 460, the sound examples are guitar samples.

So, it seems that DPA is presenting the 4060 mostly as a musical recording mic.

Didier
Old 26th April 2010
  #6
Hi Didier,

When I was writing in past tense, I meant before the mics came on the market and at the time that they were just available. As soon as a manufacturer finds out that a larger market is interested in his products, it is only logical they will advertise in that way.

DPA, like Neumann and Schoeps, always had a good relationship with larger classical recording studios, and it is from suggestions of engineers that sometimes product changes emerged (for example the gridless Schoeps mics).

It is especially Onno Scholtze, at the time Philips Classics in The Netherlands, who is responsible for the 4060 being used for music recording as well. You will find that another forum member, Gaston, can tell you the same.

Best,
Dirk
Old 26th April 2010
  #7
I have both COS-11 and 4060 and 4061 (stereo pair).
Except a low profile of Cos-11, I really don't understand what engineers find in this mic. Ok it has low self noise too....but the sound?
It always sounded to me "buttered" or over colored. It has very specific mid range boost and it might sound often harsh at 10-13 KHz.
DPA 4060/61 are fantastic small microphones which sound "big".
Their only disadvantage may be a little higher than average self noise.
Old 26th April 2010
  #8
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the 4060/4061 are way too noisy for any serious acoustic recording work.

Unacceptable, in my opinion./
Old 26th April 2010
  #9
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teddy - i ahve been using my 4061s as flanks with my km140 ORTF pair, and adding in just some of the omnis to the mix (maybe -20dB or so) can really add depth and width to the soundstage provided by the ortf pair. and at -20dB you really dont notice any noise from them. so i am finding them to be quite handy.
Old 27th April 2010
  #10
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pkautzsch's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgoorevich View Post
I have both COS-11 and 4060 and 4061 (stereo pair).
Except a low profile of Cos-11, I really don't understand what engineers find in this mic. Ok it has low self noise too....but the sound?
It always sounded to me "buttered" or over colored. It has very specific mid range boost and it might sound often harsh at 10-13 KHz.
Typical of lavalier mics. This is what you'd dial in on your EQ when you'd use a linear mic taped to a person's chest. Mid range = speech intelligibility, 10k and upper range = compensation for chin.
Old 27th April 2010
  #11
LX3
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I agree with most of the posters here.

I had occasion to directly compare the COS-11, a Tram TR40, and the DPA, in a voice pickup type application. The DPA was the most natural. The Tram was excellent as a lav for voice, though I don't know what it would sound like for instrument pickup (not designed for this). The Sanken was useable, but not nearly as nice as the DPA, or the Tram for that matter.

I've used the DPA 4061 quite a bit on acoustic instruments and it inherently sounds great. Although its an omni, so on a quiet instrument (e.g. strings) in a loud stage environment, it'll hear more spill than instrument. Spill is usually the limiting factor - not the sound of the mic itself, but what the spill does to the sound of everything else.
Old 29th April 2010
  #12
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I think that Sanken COS-11 is a good microphone (I have a couple of them). It is meant to be used as a lav, and was built to sound good for that purpose (speech and on-body-mounting)

If you compare it to a DPA4060 without the grid for recording music (more classical then other), you should use a bit of EQ and try to get the curve more straight, then you"ll be happy, because all together it is a low-noise, high-quality microphone.

thumbsup
Old 17th September 2013
  #13
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I've got a pair of the COS-11bp and will try them as a backup pair tomorrow night for a chorus. While these probably aren't great for orchestra, I think their curve might work well for chorus and their diction.
Old 17th September 2013
  #14
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just.sounds's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teddy Ray View Post
the 4060/4061 are way too noisy for any serious acoustic recording work.

Unacceptable, in my opinion./
Maybe for studio work, when i work for Polyhymnia and we do live recordings the 4060's are used on a regular basis for violin and cello spot microphones. For such small mic's they sound really good imho. And with the audience in place the murmur sounds way louder.
Old 18th September 2013
  #15
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I would say 4060 is a better mic for music, I don't know if I would use Sanken COS11D for music at all... It is a great lavalier to be buried below the actor's clothes and still sound clear and present... for music it might be harsh and tiny sounding... Hidden below fabric and taped to actor's chest COS11D sounds great for dialogue recording...
Old 19th September 2013
  #16
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They worked really well for me last night. Not a great comparison to a music recording, but for a large group of people shouting in an auditorium they were an excellent choice.

Clear. Not very noisy. Excellent reproduction of the diction even at 20 feet away. I plan to try them again on a piano, cello, guitar trio next month. Not as my main pair, but just for kicks.... I think they might work well in certain scenarios.
Old 22nd July 2015
  #17
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Rumi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by spiderman View Post
They worked really well for me last night. Not a great comparison to a music recording, but for a large group of people shouting in an auditorium they were an excellent choice.

Clear. Not very noisy. Excellent reproduction of the diction even at 20 feet away. I plan to try them again on a piano, cello, guitar trio next month. Not as my main pair, but just for kicks.... I think they might work well in certain scenarios.
Hi Spiderman,

could you post any findings?

Thanks!
Old 22nd July 2015
  #18
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Sure... I'll post something from the choir later... this was recorded using the Sanken COS11 on the piano. I taped two of the lavs about 2-3 ft apart on the front of the piano.... near the music stand, pointed into the open lid. https://youtu.be/4kz5DnIq5GQ?t=1m50s

Turned out pretty good considering....
Old 7th August 2015
  #19
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Rumi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by spiderman View Post
Sure... I'll post something from the choir later... this was recorded using the Sanken COS11 on the piano. I taped two of the lavs about 2-3 ft apart on the front of the piano.... near the music stand, pointed into the open lid. https://youtu.be/4kz5DnIq5GQ?t=1m50s

Turned out pretty good considering....
Sorry for my late reply...

Thank you!

I have to listen to that in the studio. On my "reference level" laptop speakers the piano sounds a bit thin. But definitely useable!

It would be great if you found the time to post choir samples.
Old 7th August 2015
  #20
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boojum's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by spiderman View Post
Sure... I'll post something from the choir later... this was recorded using the Sanken COS11 on the piano. I taped two of the lavs about 2-3 ft apart on the front of the piano.... near the music stand, pointed into the open lid. https://youtu.be/4kz5DnIq5GQ?t=1m50s

Turned out pretty good considering....
Nice!! Takes me back.

I use the 4061's a lot for choral and classical and rock. I have never found self noise a problem. The ambient noise has always been worse so it is not an issue. The 406n has a lovely clear dimensional sound. And, according to the DPA graphs, they are flat without the grids. I usually leave the grids on.
Old 7th August 2015
  #21
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Y'all do know, I assume, that the Sanken's HF hump is the size it is, and starts and ends at the frequencies it does, to compensate for how sound travels through clothes to a boundary mic, yes? It has nothing at all to do with music. And it has nothing to do with a lavalier mic designed to be used with the microphone exposed (above the clothes) as you would on a local/national news set.

That said, it's the go-to lavalier in Hollywood, because it's aimed entirely at the high end narrative film making market. It's used far more often then the DPA (which is gaining a little ground, but isn't even close to the Sanken), specifically because of that frequency response curve. It's exactly what Hollywood needs.

Still, can you use it to record music? Of course. Can you use it to record chorus? Of course. But the DPA's smaller HF bump, and the better positioning of that bump, are going to be more advantageous to music. Probably much to DPAs chagrin.

Considering there is less than USD $100 difference when you include the XLR adapters...

Last edited by Bruce Watson; 8th August 2015 at 01:44 AM..
Old 8th August 2015
  #22
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With the grid removed the 4060 is one of the finest (and least expensive) microphones I've worked with. A true marvel of modern technology.
Old 15th November 2017
  #23
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I own both: DPA 4061 hands down more present and better sounding for all purposes including hiding under clothing.
Sanken Cos11 more roomy sounding and has more cable noise. But I’m happy with both mics. Sanken was around $100 less. So that’s a factor to consider..
Rent a set and listen for yourself before you buy.
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