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Old 3rd July 2005
  #61
Lives for gear
 

On and off topic

What is this reallY? This concert is a vehicle which is once again looking at "Wealthy Nations" (A.K.A the USA) to GIVE 25 BILLION dollars in money/aid/supplies/debt relief to Africa. Helping other contries is in principle a great idea but its not that easy. We were in Africa handing out food 10 years ago and what happened, we got shot at in Somalia. The USA ****ing spent BILLIONS in rescources and finances during the Tsunami and a large majority of the money got taxed and pissed away and we still get looked down on and told we arent doing enough. Bottom line is, throwing money at everything aint the answer and our efforts aren't understood or appreciated for the most part.

The one guy/artist I actually respect out of this is Bono. He has been the ONLY musician I know of in the last 20 years who has taken an active role in understanding and helping causes he believes in. He was the only artist who participated in the first Live Aid to actually go to Africa to see what was going on.

This rant is non partisan specific. Other countries bitch us out no matter who is in office.

If money is going to the wrong place for the wrong reasons, thats unfortunate.I think we could do a better job helping our own economy by buying some kick ass gear.
Old 3rd July 2005
  #62
Lives for gear
 
kevinc's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by CorkyTart
What is this reallY? This concert is a vehicle which is once again looking at "Wealthy Nations" (A.K.A the USA) to GIVE 25 BILLION dollars in money/aid/supplies/debt relief to Africa. Helping other contries is in principle a great idea but its not that easy. We were in Africa handing out food 10 years ago and what happened, we got shot at in Somalia. The USA ****ing spent BILLIONS in rescources and finances during the Tsunami and a large majority of the money got taxed and pissed away and we still get looked down on and told we arent doing enough. Bottom line is, throwing money at everything aint the answer and our efforts aren't understood or appreciated for the most part.

The one guy/artist I actually respect out of this is Bono. He has been the ONLY musician I know of in the last 20 years who has taken an active role in understanding and helping causes he believes in. He was the only artist who participated in the first Live Aid to actually go to Africa to see what was going on.

This rant is non partisan specific. Other countries bitch us out no matter who is in office.

If money is going to the wrong place for the wrong reasons, thats unfortunate.I think we could do a better job helping our own economy by buying some kick ass gear.


I do hear what your saying Corky but doing something is still better than doing nothing.
Old 3rd July 2005
  #63
Lives for gear
 

And I agree with Kevinc
Old 3rd July 2005
  #64
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Curve Dominant's Avatar
DEMOCRATIC CAPITALISM RULEZ!!!
Old 3rd July 2005
  #65
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catfish11's Avatar
 

ruphus, a catfish is a scum eating bottom dweller
i do not drink.
and china under mao murdered tens of millions
not six building a dam
the autocratic elite that control china have a proverbial tiger by the tail
and will eventually have to give up control
they know not what they started

capitalism has many shortcomings
but it does allow for change, unlike dogmatic
socialism which is a dictatorship
by any other name,
run by a know-it-all entitled elite

i ****ing hate bush and the texas OILgarchy he represents
however, under our psuedo system it is possible to evolve, hopefully
this concert is being broadcast in free countries around the world, more and more
capitalism has raised the living standards
where once socialism had a stranglehold
india and china both are countries rising in no small part because of free market reform

**** communism and its lies

man will change when men change their hearts
not because some psuedo english atheist loser
wrote a book, while he took money from industrialists

communim/socialism is about the state,
and control

capitalism's strength is with the the industry
of the people

by the way i sponser kids in africa, too
Old 3rd July 2005
  #66
Gear Addict
 

Socialism institutionalizes envy and self-sacrifice: It uses compulsion and the organized violence of the State to expropriate wealth from the producer class for its redistribution to the parasitical class.

Despite the current crop of intellectuals’ hatred of capitalism, it is the only moral and just social system because it requires human beings to deal with one another as traders--that is, as free moral agents trading and selling goods and services on the basis of mutual consent.

Capitalism is the only just system because the sole criterion that determines the value of thing exchanged is the free, voluntary, universal judgement of the consumer. Coercion and fraud are anathema to the free-market system. Capitalism is both moral and just because the degree to which man rises or falls in society is determined by the degree to which he uses his mind. Capitalism is the only social system that rewards merit, ability and achievement, regardless of one’s birth or station in life.

Penicillin, the internal combustion engine, the airplane, the radio, the electric light, canned food, air conditioning, washing machines, dishwashers, the electric guitar, computers, etc. could not have been invented in a socialist society, because socalism does not reward the entrepreneurial spirit, it squashes it, to the point that there is no incentive to strive for greater things, and the greater good of mankind has always been best served by those serving themselves.
Old 3rd July 2005
  #67
Lives for gear
 
entropy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curve Dominant
DEMOCRATIC CAPITALISM RULEZ!!!
yep, you're right Curve..... it does because that's the system most of us live with. But it's far from perfect, by it's very nature it will mean there will always be a growing divide between the have and the have not's.
Old 3rd July 2005
  #68
GMR
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GMR's Avatar
Anybody see Green Day do We are the champions? Man was that bad! Learn how to sing before attempting to sing Queen! The nerve of that fuken punk to ruin that song!
Old 3rd July 2005
  #69
Gear Addict
 
JulianBrightnes's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by CorkyTart
What is this reallY? This concert is a vehicle which is once again looking at "Wealthy Nations" (A.K.A the USA) to GIVE 25 BILLION dollars in money/aid/supplies/debt relief to Africa. Helping other contries is in principle a great idea but its not that easy. We were in Africa handing out food 10 years ago and what happened, we got shot at in Somalia. The USA ****ing spent BILLIONS in rescources and finances during the Tsunami and a large majority of the money got taxed and pissed away and we still get looked down on and told we arent doing enough. Bottom line is, throwing money at everything aint the answer and our efforts aren't understood or appreciated for the most part.

The one guy/artist I actually respect out of this is Bono. He has been the ONLY musician I know of in the last 20 years who has taken an active role in understanding and helping causes he believes in. He was the only artist who participated in the first Live Aid to actually go to Africa to see what was going on.

This rant is non partisan specific. Other countries bitch us out no matter who is in office.

If money is going to the wrong place for the wrong reasons, thats unfortunate.I think we could do a better job helping our own economy by buying some kick ass gear.

Maybe the US should first pay it's debt to the UN, they haven't paid in years. And btw
only Sweden and the Netherlands pay the standard of 3% of their National Gross Income set by the UN to developing countries. What do you think this useless war in Iraq costs? You make me sick.

Julian
Old 3rd July 2005
  #70
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brianroth's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GMR
Anybody see Green Day do We are the champions? Man was that bad! Learn how to sing before attempting to sing Queen! The nerve of that fuken punk to ruin that song!
Yeah, whazzizname, the GD singer, is NOT Freddy Mercury!! I was running for cover during that song today....

Bri
Old 3rd July 2005
  #71
Gear Addict
 
JulianBrightnes's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by brianroth
Yeah, whazzizname, the GD singer, is NOT Freddy Mercury!! I was running for cover during that song today....

Bri
I miss Freddy! I was never a big Queen fan, but since he passed
away it became clear (to me) what an extraordinary performer and singer he was.
Anyone saw that memorial concert at Wembley? Only one who could sing one of the Queen songs convincingly was... George Michael (Somebody to Love)!


Sorry I got a bit agitated earlier. I think the whole western world should take a closer look at itself! Not only the US....but 'Noblesse oblige', my friends.

Cheers, Julian

PS How about that Joss Stone....whooaaa!
Old 3rd July 2005
  #72
Lives for gear
 

Hey Jullian

The USA pays between 20-25% of the UN'S annual funds.

Speaking of the UN. I think the most ironic part of todays Live 8 events is Kofi A standing up there talking about starving people in Africa yet he completely ass raped the Iraqi people with the UN oil for Food Program.

Some people hate Bush, some people hate Clinton, but there is absolutely no way in Hell, that anyone can deny that the US is by far the most generous nation regardless of who is in office.

If you don't like the USA, go buy a bunch of Behringer gear...
Old 3rd July 2005
  #73
Lives for gear
 

Julian

I agree with you, George Michael was great.

As far as the Western world looking at itself goes, you're right we should. We should either clean up the UN or back out of it and let it implode. We should stop sending aid to foreign countries and take care of our own people over here. While we are at it, we will go back to being isolationists like during WWI and WWII (Before we saved the world) and when either N. Korea, Iran or China becomes the next major threat, we will kindly tell countries in that particular region that they can deal with it because we are too busy in the USA gluing together Monster Cables and Mackie boards.

But everyone knows that won't happen. Americans are generous to a point where its a fault. G Bush just gave 3/4 of a Billion in aid a few weeks ago to Africa and that is still not enough. You know how I can say that and be right about it? Because a few weeks before that, he forgave Billions in debt. So Billions on top of Billions ain't enough.

To the people overseas. Its important to recognize that Michael Moore does not represent your average US citizen. He represents the overwhelming majority of the opinions of those in the Entertainment Industry and when challenged in a debate, I have yet to see any of these celebs have any real substance.
Old 3rd July 2005
  #74
Mindreader
 
BevvyB's Avatar
 

Next morning recap:

Pete Doherty was absolutely dreadful and the crowd were bemused by his amatuerism. So was Elton by the looks of things.

Mariah Carey was just plain weird. Crowd were laughing at some points where I was standing.

Snoop Dogg was the first band that got the whole crowdgoing, great band and vibe. This was a nice surprise!

The Who were brilliant. Pink Floyd were brilliant.

Joss Stone and Madonna were a bit nothingy, may have looked better on tv!

Crowd spotting:
Melinder Messenger, Adrian Edmunson, Caprice, Tracy Ullmann, Angus Deayton, Jemimah Khan, Boris Becker, David Frost, Alan Yentob, Tessa Giles, Angela Griffin, Kirsty Young, George Alagiyah, Rupert Green, Huey from FLC

Pictures later

Bev
Old 3rd July 2005
  #75
Han
Lives for gear
 

Sir Bob was brilliant, bringing that girl on stage who was in that film from 20 years ago, no life left in her little eyes.

And look what a nice young woman she is now, thanks to a bunch of musicians from 20 years back.

Kudos.
Old 3rd July 2005
  #76
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enharmonic's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GMR
Anybody see Green Day do We are the champions? Man was that bad! Learn how to sing before attempting to sing Queen! The nerve of that fuken punk to ruin that song!
Isn't that what punk is all about though? Johnny rotton singing My Way comes to mind. No one would accuse him of being a good singer. Then again, Billy-Joe was probably trying to really sing...and in that case, ruins the joke.

Not a good song to play when we're talking about starvation and death in Africa...kind of a celebratory nose thumbing in the Darwin sense.
Old 3rd July 2005
  #77
Gear Maniac
 
cfjis's Avatar
 

Sid Vicious sang "My Way".... which was brilliant.
Old 3rd July 2005
  #78
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Ruphus's Avatar
 

Socialism never existed, but if it serves your conservations just keep at the idea.

Defending capitalism and in the same time being concerned about suffering in underdeveloped countries means that you owe it to yourself to inform yourself.

Anybody defending capitalism and in the same time thinking that the industrial nation with the least official development aid per head worldwide but the largest history of exploitation was generous does not want to face the facts. Information being neglected and can´t help there.

And then there are basic things to understand like that development aid is being used to pull from state budgets and fill private pockets instead of targeting the official aim ( same with the Red Cross, UNESCO and most other charitable organisations ) or what capitalism actually is. That it does only generate a certain wealth to a population as long as it usurps much higher values elsewhere. That it is about to come to its end. That now China will be cathcing up to that game for a short while until only burned soil will be left over by capitalistic pseudo economical cycle. ( Actually capitalism is no cycle, but a one-way street.)

If you just want to defend the ideas you have been brought up with that is fine, but if you want to understand what you are talking about first thing it needs would be to stop taking things by their label.

Names don´t make entities, contents do.

Ruphus
Old 3rd July 2005
  #79
Gear Addict
 
JulianBrightnes's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by enharmonic
Isn't that what punk is all about though? Johnny rotton singing My Way comes to mind.

That was Sid Vicious
Old 3rd July 2005
  #80
Gear Addict
 
JulianBrightnes's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by CorkyTart
We should stop sending aid to foreign countries and take care of our own people over here. While we are at it, we will go back to being isolationists like during WWI and WWII (Before we saved the world) and when either N. Korea, Iran or China becomes the next major threat, we will kindly tell countries in that particular region that they can deal with it because we are too busy in the USA gluing together Monster Cables and Mackie boards.
Now you've convinced me...
Old 3rd July 2005
  #81
Quote:
Originally Posted by recorderman
that's a good analysis...simple and yet i think very close to the truth.

So Jules..did you see the london shows live? Cool about the Who.
no but gearslut bevvyb did,

I watched it at my inlaws on a TV with great sound!
Old 3rd July 2005
  #82
Quote:
Originally Posted by themaidsroom
here in nyc its all adds , which really makes you feeeeeel it.....on a day like this,
couldn't they have trimmed it down..............

live 8 - quick cut to taco bell



- jack
NO ADS WHATSOEVER here in the UK
Old 3rd July 2005
  #83
Lives for gear
 

If you missed it....or if like us, the local TV coverage was based on ads and the local star system, thank goodness for the internet......I'm watching some stuff I missed as I write...

was that Lyle Workman playing with Sting? noticed the /13 armada behind him

being a Gearslut : Gilmour's Strat had scars from a vintage trem re-replacing a route for a Kahler or something.

Dan Akroyd and Tom Green (hosts in Canada) probably regret their SARS joke (it died as it came out and they knew it and probably were in a state of shock)

(in an Emily Natilla voice); did you notice that Faith Hill and Tim McGraw had the same band? ....................oh!..................never mind B! heh

Andy
Old 3rd July 2005
  #84
Lives for gear
 
Ruudman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JulianBrightnes
And btw
only Sweden and the Netherlands pay the standard of 3% of their National Gross Income set by the UN to developing countries. Julian
Actually, if you're talking about
the "Millennium Development Goal", the world target is set to 0.7% of GNP.
Denmark, Sweden, Norway, The Netherlands and Luxembourg have reached this
target, Ireland coming up around 2007.

ruudman
Old 3rd July 2005
  #85
Deleted bd1be4f
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruphus
Socialism never existed, but if it serves your conservations just keep at the idea.

Defending capitalism and in the same time being concerned about suffering in underdeveloped countries means that you owe it to yourself to inform yourself.

Anybody defending capitalism and in the same time thinking that the industrial nation with the least official development aid per head worldwide but the largest history of exploitation was generous does not want to face the facts. Information being neglected and can´t help there.

And then there are basic things to understand like that development aid is being used to pull from state budgets and fill private pockets instead of targeting the official aim ( same with the Red Cross, UNESCO and most other charitable organisations ) or what capitalism actually is. That it does only generate a certain wealth to a population as long as it usurps much higher values elsewhere. That it is about to come to its end. That now China will be cathcing up to that game for a short while until only burned soil will be left over by capitalistic pseudo economical cycle. ( Actually capitalism is no cycle, but a one-way street.)

If you just want to defend the ideas you have been brought up with that is fine, but if you want to understand what you are talking about first thing it needs would be to stop taking things by their label.

Names don´t make entities, contents do.

Ruphus

No one said capitalism or the U.S. were perfect, but again capitalism beats every other economic system out there. There is no system or country that doesn't have a certain amount of fraud or exploitation, it is part of human nature. But if you think that capitalism is no good, then why don't you put forth an alternative that you think would be better?

In Soviet Russia in the 1920's there was an economist named Nikolai Kondratiev who, much to Stalin's dismay, concluded that capitalism would in fact NOT die or crumble, rather it would move in cycles of booms and busts, and would continue on. His reward was imprisonment and execution.
Old 3rd July 2005
  #86
Gear Head
 
chrisr's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules
I watched it at my inlaws on a TV with great sound!
I watched in the studio at Stadium levels. The bbc did make some funny cuts of their own it has to be said.

Pink Floyd did indeed rock! - I went to see The Wall at Abbey Road a few weeks back and that was an eye opener for me... (ooh and a nice Geldof tie-in)

I thought that Travis playing "why does it always rain on me?" with shots of the famine in the background was questionable.... and the engineer pre-REM to Ricky Gervais "do you mind we're kinda in the middle of something here!" ... no sh*t, really ?
Old 3rd July 2005
  #87
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Ruphus's Avatar
 

Capitalism only continues to exist under luxury of dismissed coherence, human exploitation and waste of resources.
At the time that the last two factors would cease to be provided in affluence, which they will, capitalism won´t function anymore.

And frankly it shouldn´t anyway. A system that serves one small part of humanity on cost of the majority and the environment should be opposed by any human who believes in equal rights of existance.

An adequat economical way should be responsible and forward-thinking. It should serve humanity instead of prior accumulation for privilegeds.

And besides, what you have not noticed: I have not specified how you might call what would be alternative. All I mentioned has been what has to be removed from the current method of economizing. And that would be the injustice inherent of the capitalistic principle.

Capitalsim doesn´t just bring minor disadvanatges alongside its philanthropical characteristic like you guys pain it on your panic before anything called socialism.
It is the pestilence of the planet, even if the refined deviation of its surface might appear true to your view on history and future.

You are advocating exploitation of humans and environmental destruction and it would be either contradiction or hypocricy if you waved to an event like Live8.

Ruphus
Old 3rd July 2005
  #88
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enharmonic's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JulianBrightnes
That was Sid Vicious
I stand corrected . It's been at least 10 years since I last heard that version.
Old 3rd July 2005
  #89
Lives for gear
 

Ruphus, the current system that you are bashing is not true Capitalism. Perhaps your better off the bash the leaches that abuse true capitalists. Paper traders, speculators etc.

Communism? Forget it. The only person I'd trust to create a society where everyone is in lala land is Walt Disney - but he's dead.



Quote:
Capitalism is the only just system because the sole criterion that determines the value of thing exchanged is the free, voluntary, universal judgement of the consumer. Coercion and fraud are anathema to the free-market system. Capitalism is both moral and just because the degree to which man rises or falls in society is determined by the degree to which he uses his mind. Capitalism is the only social system that rewards merit, ability and achievement, regardless of one’s birth or station in life.

Capitalism ... just and moral. My God, it sounds like your talking about a religion. Capitalism is nothing more than an economic system for trading goods and services.

Capitlism is NOT just and moral and it's exesses must be curved by rules and regulation. For EG: Monopoly is the end game of uncontrolled capitalism, ergo we have laws against this.

Never forget that capitalism DOES NOT = Democracy. They are two different beasts entirely. And if your really serious about the subject, you will do some research to find that Capitalism thrives it's best under dictatorships.

Oh yeah PINK FLOYD kicked!
Old 3rd July 2005
  #90
Gear Maniac
 
Vari-Mu's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by CorkyTart

Some people hate Bush, some people hate Clinton, but there is absolutely no way in Hell, that anyone can deny that the US is by far the most generous nation regardless of who is in office.
This has been repeated a couple of times on this thread and although it seems to be a a widespread belief in the US, it's incorrect.

I think there is confusion between the absolute dollar amount given as aid by the USA and that amount expressed as a percentage of Gross National Product. The latter measure is the one economists consider to be meaningful when discussing these things and viewed this way, the US is at the back of the class.

Floyd were fantastic except for Roger Waters singing. I too am hoping for a tour....


Cheers

Vari-Mu
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