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HOW TO : audio treatment for Jazz concerts live broadcast/webcast (from a stereo microphone)
Old 4 weeks ago
  #1
Gear Addict
HOW TO : audio treatment for Jazz concerts live broadcast/webcast (from a stereo microphone)

Hey,

In the project to broadcast/webcast live Jazz concerts, from a stereo microphone. Wondering how to deal with sound.
  • Jazz music -> high dynamic range to control
  • stereo microphone (Rode NT4) placed on stage (with and without PA) -> no way to mix instruments
  • target level : -16LUFS/-14LUFS (with ceiling at -1dbFS/-2dbFS)
  • should be able to play nice on laptop speakers, and smartphone.

Has any of you already done this?

Some EQ, multiband, compressor (and parallel compressor) and limiter? Any typical settings? What to look for?

Thanks!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2
Lives for gear
 

do a proper mix; a stereo mic will most likely result in a poor balance between instruments and between direct, reflected and ambient sound...
Old 4 weeks ago
  #3
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tourtelot's Avatar
In my experience, jazz is really hard to do with a single pair. And hard to mix live, even multi-mic'd. I have been singularly unsuccessful in my attempts.

Can I assume that the single-pair technique is due to budget/time constraints? Tough assignment.

Are you able to do post, even on a two-mic mix? Or is it straight to "air"?

Spend a rehearsal finding the best acoustic spot for your pair, and then run conservative levels as you can; you don't want clipping and you don't want and severe compression either. Parallel compression might help but I'd be wary of trying any big "outboard" unless you are experienced or have a few passes in post.

Not a challenge that I would want to have presented. Good luck.

D.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #4
Lives for gear
 

For jazz you definitely need to use a multi band compressor. Set it to threshold -50, ratio 20:1 hard knee and center the frequency at 250. Set another band to 1k4, threshold -48.63, ratio 12:1

Then add an eq. Low shelf at 180 and add 8.3 dB gain. Then set a band at 2k2, q of 4 and +12.2 gain.

Then add a limiter. Set output to -.1 and add enough gain so that loud parts are limiting 15-20db and quiet parts are limiting 5-8 dB.

Et voila!
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #5
70 percent of the time, it works every time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NathanBarley View Post
For jazz you definitely need to use a multi band compressor. Set it to threshold -50, ratio 20:1 hard knee and center the frequency at 250. Set another band to 1k4, threshold -48.63, ratio 12:1

Then add an eq. Low shelf at 180 and add 8.3 dB gain. Then set a band at 2k2, q of 4 and +12.2 gain.

Then add a limiter. Set output to -.1 and add enough gain so that loud parts are limiting 15-20db and quiet parts are limiting 5-8 dB.

Et voila!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #6
Lives for gear
Answer the above questions about why only a stereo mic and whether post-performance production is possible and you will get more valuable information.
In the same vein, is there some video-based restriction on where the stereo mic can be placed? Can it be in the video?
Also, what sort of venue?
You say live... is there an audience, and does that mean a PA system with its own mics? If so, can you mix from a split of those mics plus your stereo mic?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #7
Gear Addict
Hi all,

First, thanks for stopping by and your interest in this.
(Thanks also for the laugh, I knew someone would publish dumb settings).

About the project:
This must be a light-weight and simple solution, so I can only place a single stereo mic on stage.

Venue will be small scenes... 30/150 capacity. Sometimes with PA, sometimes without. Mostly, it will be "acoustic shows". Audience in the venue, but maybe without... kind of "sessions" then.

I dont plan to use any gear from the venue.

Yes there is possibility to have some post-production. But maybe not.

As a test I've already made those recordings very recently. Post production on these have been quite difficult as I am constantly changing things to improve. using tricks such as distortion, parallel compression (by freq bands!), match EQ techniques, compression, tape saturation... reaching CPU overload quickly (96KHz and using oversampling is a CPU killer), wasting time exporting in real time or so, then check, then try another thing again.I think I'm circling around. There must be a better and simpler way.

When radio or TV use a stereo mic, they certainly have a "go to" setting to be able to broadcast such audio program. And most of those professionals use external gears, so they can't make ultra precise cuts here and there like I do.

I know it won't be perfect, it can't be. Be I just need to be in the ballpark and know what to "let go".
Old 4 weeks ago
  #8
Waiting for a miracle

Jazz ensembles don't usually "self-balance" in the way that established classical ensembles do. Some instruments are simply a lot louder than others: horns and drums are way louder than bass and piano. Plus, they are often ad-hoc groups assembled for a particular gig so there's no chance of them falling back on past experience to balance themselves because they haven't been playing together for years and years the way a string quartet does, nor are their arrangements written to achieve this balance naturally, again in contrast to chamber music. This is why most jazz sessions are multi-mic'd. But it's occasionally possible (not easy) to make a minimalist stereo recording if you're dealing with instruments that are reasonably similar in volume. Generally speaking, you will need to adjust the player locations relative to the stereo pair to get the proper balance and sound stage presentation. You can't necessarily find any mic position that will work if the musicians choose their own locations.

Here's one of the best examples I know of this technique.

David L. Rick
Seventh String Recording
Old 4 weeks ago
  #9
Gear Addict
Thanks David.

As those are and will be mostly concerts, I won't be able to place my mics or the players accordingly. My best bet it to keep the stereo image and place the mic onstage, upfront.

Indeed, drums are sometimes louder than other instruments, especially piano and double bass. I have 3 recordings of trios (drums/piano/double bass), and drums louder parts are the thing to deal with. When the drums are softs, sound is sweet. Sometimes when the double bass is too much amplified (from an onstage amp), it can be a bit too loud too.

Actually, the sound of my recordings has a lot of dynamic range. Loud drums parts are ruining the thing. It is not comfortable to listen to. And if I plan to put these on podcast/webcast, I need to bring the level to -14LUFS. This implies a lot of compressors + parallel compression + limiter + saturation/distortion.

It will squash the drums loud parts, but this is a compromise.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _barnee View Post
Hi all,

First, thanks for stopping by and your interest in this.
(Thanks also for the laugh, I knew someone would publish dumb settings).

About the project:
This must be a light-weight and simple solution, so I can only place a single stereo mic on stage.

Venue will be small scenes... 30/150 capacity. Sometimes with PA, sometimes without. Mostly, it will be "acoustic shows". Audience in the venue, but maybe without... kind of "sessions" then.

I dont plan to use any gear from the venue.

Yes there is possibility to have some post-production. But maybe not.

As a test I've already made those recordings very recently. Post production on these have been quite difficult as I am constantly changing things to improve. using tricks such as distortion, parallel compression (by freq bands!), match EQ techniques, compression, tape saturation... reaching CPU overload quickly (96KHz and using oversampling is a CPU killer), wasting time exporting in real time or so, then check, then try another thing again.I think I'm circling around. There must be a better and simpler way.

When radio or TV use a stereo mic, they certainly have a "go to" setting to be able to broadcast such audio program. And most of those professionals use external gears, so they can't make ultra precise cuts here and there like I do.

I know it won't be perfect, it can't be. Be I just need to be in the ballpark and know what to "let go".
hard to judge what you consider to be 'in the ballpark' but imo your goals are unrealistic:

whether you have an audience in the venue or not and whether you are dealing with acoustic or amplified instruments (and wedges, pa etc.) makes a huge difference: even if you'd use the very same stereo mic system, results would vastly different depending on these scenarios.

most likely, a single pair of mics will not get you the results you are looking for, not even under 'ideal' conditions.

what you need is more gear (mics/tracks) but the idea that outboard gear (vs itb) would be better is flawed (and comments how to set dynamic tools are absolutely pointless)! - and no, you don't need a lot of compression to meet a specific lufs target: first and foremost, you need a different approach!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #11
Gear Addict
I've spent another saturday experimenting with one of my recordings.

I have removed an EQ plugin with a lot of filtering. I have simplified the EQ applied on. A low cut, a high cut, some harshness control at 7KHz, some other peaks removal around 10KHz, and a slight boost in the mid around 1.5KHz, maybe 1db or 1.5db, a small dip in the low mid to control the double-bass a bit..

This, with some other compressions/distorsion techniques I output a first file. I then open a new project and import that file in to play with. Another compressor, 1:1.2 ratio with 3db to 5db gain reduction. A limiter that doesn't seem to squash anything but that really do its thing.

Just got a file that reach -14LUFS, with a ceiling of -2dbFS True Peak.
Result is pretty good, comparing to some mastered CD tracks of studio music. Need to test it on smartphone/laptop speakers though...

Problem is, the workflow is quite terrible.
And I still dont know if what I'm doing is "legit".

Apparently, less is more. Especially on EQ, because I still have to play with a lot of compressors and limiter.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #12
Lives for gear
I own the same Rode stereo mic, and I’ve done some live recording where it was the only mic. I like the mic well enough. As a single point coincident pair, it seldom gives a dramatically stereo picture. In fact, it usually sounds like a mono mic to most listeners. With careful placement, it will give an honest picture of the performance. Other than using EQ to add or subtract low frequencies, and perhaps applying a little stereo compression, I don’t try to do anything to change the picture a great deal. If the horns are too loud, that’s the honest picture. If the placement is responsible for some imbalance, I should have caught that in a sound check.
I agree with the OP that doing a lot of enhancement and correction often leads an endless circle of “what improves A seems to harm B”, or “I’ve arrived at a better balance but the whole thing sounds odd in some way”. Perhaps an honest picture is the best result.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #13
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah View Post
hard to judge what you consider to be 'in the ballpark' but imo your goals are unrealistic:

whether you have an audience in the venue or not and whether you are dealing with acoustic or amplified instruments (and wedges, pa etc.) makes a huge difference: even if you'd use the very same stereo mic system, results would vastly different depending on these scenarios.

most likely, a single pair of mics will not get you the results you are looking for, not even under 'ideal' conditions.

what you need is more gear (mics/tracks) but the idea that outboard gear (vs itb) would be better is flawed (and comments how to set dynamic tools are absolutely pointless)! - and no, you don't need a lot of compression to meet a specific lufs target: first and foremost, you need a different approach!
For years, I have done live recordings with a stereo microphone on a big stand, located near the soundboard, middle of crowd, for rock/indie music. PA system brought me the sound.

I've done multitrack too. Sometimes bringing the snakes cable to plug to the soundboard (mostly rock concerts, occasionally jazz-rock), and sometimes using my mics/stands (for small acts, in very small venue). This is a lot of work, and I can't carry all this very easily.

The challenge is to record acoustic performance with a stereo mic, and webcast/broadcast/podcast them. And find the way to do it.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _barnee View Post
For years, I have done live recordings with a stereo microphone on a big stand, located near the soundboard, middle of crowd, for rock/indie music. PA system brought me the sound.

I've done multitrack too. Sometimes bringing the snakes cable to plug to the soundboard (mostly rock concerts, occasionally jazz-rock), and sometimes using my mics/stands (for small acts, in very small venue). This is a lot of work, and I can't carry all this very easily.

The challenge is to record acoustic performance with a stereo mic, and webcast/broadcast/podcast them. And find the way to do it.
nothing wrong with simple stereo recordings but imo much closer to some kinda simplistic 'documentation' that suitable for broadcasting in any form... - good luck!
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #15
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushman View Post
I own the same Rode stereo mic, and I’ve done some live recording where it was the only mic. I like the mic well enough. As a single point coincident pair, it seldom gives a dramatically stereo picture. In fact, it usually sounds like a mono mic to most listeners. With careful placement, it will give an honest picture of the performance. Other than using EQ to add or subtract low frequencies, and perhaps applying a little stereo compression, I don’t try to do anything to change the picture a great deal. If the horns are too loud, that’s the honest picture. If the placement is responsible for some imbalance, I should have caught that in a sound check.
I agree with the OP that doing a lot of enhancement and correction often leads an endless circle of “what improves A seems to harm B”, or “I’ve arrived at a better balance but the whole thing sounds odd in some way”. Perhaps an honest picture is the best result.
Thanks mate!!

Unfortunately, I am sometimes unable to be a the soundcheck due to scheduling. Even If I'd be there, well... that drums would be still ****ing too loud on some parts.

I place the NT4 facing the band, 3 to 4 feet high on a small stand. As you, I try to get an honest picture of the band. And on the recordings, 90-95% is good and balanced. 5-10% is unbalanced. While our ears would have compressed the sound during the concert, the recording keeps the dynamics.

Why the -14LUFS target? This is webcast/podcast requirement.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #16
If I were to livestream a jazz concert in an unfamiliar/I ideal space, and was limited in the kit I could use, and on a limited budget, I’ll describe what I’d try to do:

Keep the setup simple. I’d want 1 fader for each instrument, maybe 2 for drums/piano, and want whatever was on that fader to be as free from bleed problems as possible. So if I didn’t have a digital mixer, or an analog mixer with bussing, I’d cut back on mics. And get bass DI. It’s undignified, but better to hear that than destroy a mix with bad bleed from an inadequate mic.

Jazz ensembles, as said before, rarely balance well enough in an acoustic to rely on a simple stereo pickup, so don’t go *that* simple.

Make sure you have adequate monitoring. Wear noise canceling cans or strongly isolating cans, and/or be in an isolated control room space, and give yourself some soundcheck to get used to what bleed you might hear, and know how to compensate for it.

Do a mix, and err on the side of melody. Frank Laico built his whole career on mixes like that, so why not you? Kidding aside, keep the melody and solo instruments out front and the audience will be happy. Then bass, then piano, and drums. In my experience that’s the order of quick-bad-live-mix-forgiveness. But if you can make a good mix, then all the better!

If you can have a limiter into your streaming input, all the better. Get a few loud snare and horn bangs in soundcheck and set accordingly. I think a cheap digital mixer with faders the perfect tool for these kinds of gigs, especially if you can record iso tracks to possibly fix any unforgivable issues later.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #17
I'll add one thing to Kevin's excellent advice above: Your job will be easier if you have a good sightline to the stage, because you'll be able to see the musicians cue one another and thus anticipate the solos. I used to mix live jazz festivals many years ago, often with really rudimentary PA gear, and the simple fact that I already had my hand on the correct fader before the next solo won me a lot of compliments.

David
Old 4 weeks ago
  #18
Lives for gear
As a "case in point", here's a live concert stream, linked below, just finished a few minutes ago...the last piece was Miles Davis/Gil Evans "Sketches of Spain"...if that's 'jazz enough' for you ?

This was a single mic pair...AB 50cm omni KM183 around 6 feet above the conductor (you can see the shiny support bar about 6" above the lower edge of the upper tier of organ pipes, with fishing-line guy lines radiating out from either end...)

It will probably refute... and confirm... many of the comments made above about minimal jazz miking, at least in a generously ambient concert hall. My guess is the only amplification would have been a DI line or mic on the acoustic bass amp...or more likely the amp itself was turned up just emough to 'push through' acoustically.

it begins around 46:48 from the end: https://youtu.be/9k5i1xuSW18

There have been other livestreamed concerts from this same venue, some jazz, weekly, for several months now...here are many of the videos: https://www.youtube.com/c/ElderHall/videos

A (very) few of these have had additional miking, stage monitors etc.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #19
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there's mostly a massive difference between recording in a concert hall and in a shed, club or bar, between musicians being (somewhat) aware there they are playing for the mic (knowing that a minimalistic approach will be used) or musicians trying to energize a live audience, between a blurry cloud stemming from spaced stereo mics and a much more defined sound field stemming from full production etc.

in any case, the op needs another workflow (in addition to another approach).

wondering which live stream gets 'rejected' for not meeting a specific lufs target... - different story when hitting a satellite right from the location or feeding into the radio/tv's network but i guess the op isn't into the latter two?
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #20
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
As a "case in point", here's a live concert stream, linked below, just finished a few minutes ago...the last piece was Miles Davis/Gil Evans "Sketches of Spain"...if that's 'jazz enough' for you ?

This was a single mic pair...AB 50cm omni KM183 around 6 feet above the conductor (you can see the shiny support bar about 6" above the lower edge of the upper tier of organ pipes, with fishing-line guy lines radiating out from either end...)

It will probably refute... and confirm... many of the comments made above about minimal jazz miking, at least in a generously ambient concert hall. My guess is the only amplification would have been a DI line or mic on the acoustic bass amp...or more likely the amp itself was turned up just emough to 'push through' acoustically.

it begins around 46:48 from the end: https://youtu.be/9k5i1xuSW18

There have been other livestreamed concerts from this same venue, some jazz, weekly, for several months now...here are many of the videos: https://www.youtube.com/c/ElderHall/videos

A (very) few of these have had additional miking, stage monitors etc.
Thanks!

Just few things... The concert stream you mentioned has musicians properly placed. Drums are far behind, and not ultra loud drumming. The trios I have recorded, and possibly others I will record, have the drums set placed on the right of stage. The mic is about 5 to 9 feets from it, on different shows I have recorded so far.

I am sure that if I need to record such ensemble (like in the stream), it would be much more easier to produce.

Anyhow, thanks for the interest. And I will have a look at other livestreams you mentioned (still, they dont list the way they dealt with audio...).
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #21
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah View Post
there's mostly a massive difference between recording in a concert hall and in a shed, club or bar, between musicians being (somewhat) aware there they are playing for the mic (knowing that a minimalistic approach will be used) or musicians trying to energize a live audience, between a blurry cloud stemming from spaced stereo mics and a much more defined sound field stemming from full production etc.

in any case, the op needs another workflow (in addition to another approach).

wondering which live stream gets 'rejected' for not meeting a specific lufs target... - different story when hitting a satellite right from the location or feeding into the radio/tv's network but i guess the op isn't into the latter two?

Totally agree on the fact that recording a band playing a session for a mic, and a concert for an audience is totally different.

You won't get rejected for not meeting a LUFS on services hosting podcasts... Your sound will just be smashed by their limiter because THEY will make your audio file matching the -14LUFS. That's what I want to avoid.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #22
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by king2070lplaya View Post
If I were to livestream a jazz concert in an unfamiliar/I ideal space, and was limited in the kit I could use, and on a limited budget, I’ll describe what I’d try to do:

Keep the setup simple. I’d want 1 fader for each instrument, maybe 2 for drums/piano, and want whatever was on that fader to be as free from bleed problems as possible. So if I didn’t have a digital mixer, or an analog mixer with bussing, I’d cut back on mics. And get bass DI. It’s undignified, but better to hear that than destroy a mix with bad bleed from an inadequate mic.

Jazz ensembles, as said before, rarely balance well enough in an acoustic to rely on a simple stereo pickup, so don’t go *that* simple.

Make sure you have adequate monitoring. Wear noise canceling cans or strongly isolating cans, and/or be in an isolated control room space, and give yourself some soundcheck to get used to what bleed you might hear, and know how to compensate for it.

Do a mix, and err on the side of melody. Frank Laico built his whole career on mixes like that, so why not you? Kidding aside, keep the melody and solo instruments out front and the audience will be happy. Then bass, then piano, and drums. In my experience that’s the order of quick-bad-live-mix-forgiveness. But if you can make a good mix, then all the better!

If you can have a limiter into your streaming input, all the better. Get a few loud snare and horn bangs in soundcheck and set accordingly. I think a cheap digital mixer with faders the perfect tool for these kinds of gigs, especially if you can record iso tracks to possibly fix any unforgivable issues later.
Thanks, but the challenge is to use a stereo microphone only.

To people wondering "who"/"what" makes me sticking to this: Musicians even told me there is no need for multitrack recording, "better be a stereo mic thing".
As for me, I can put my gear in a small bag. Easy. Simple. Set in less than 5 minutes.

Also, on a multi mics project for a concert, that drums played too loud will bleed in other instrument mics anyway...

So, the idea is to keep the stereo image coming from the stage. With a stereo microphone.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #23
Quote:
Originally Posted by _barnee View Post
Also, on a multi mics project for a concert, that drums played too loud will bleed in other instrument mics anyway...
This is in all likelihood still going to happen with your stereo mic, unless the group and drummer are very very disciplined. I’d say gaining some
Control of the drum overbalance is the major reason to multi mic a jazz ensemble.

Would suggest that even if you are doing just a stereo mic, that you still get bass DI and a piano spot, as piano and bass definition will be the first to get lost in the flood of sound.

Some of Jack Renner’s early Telarc jazz recordings are simple 3-mic setups, if you’re looking for high fidelity inspiration on how this might sound if done well. Keep in mind these were done with long setup and rehearsal times to get balances right.

And finally, as much as they are willing, make sure the bass amp isn’t too loud and/or too boomy on stage, and ask the drummer not to overplay. The first should be easy enough, the second might be forgotten about quickly. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard drummers overplay and then complain that they couldn’t hear anyone else.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #24
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by king2070lplaya View Post
This is in all likelihood still going to happen with your stereo mic, unless the group and drummer are very very disciplined. I’d say gaining some
Control of the drum overbalance is the major reason to multi mic a jazz ensemble.

Would suggest that even if you are doing just a stereo mic, that you still get bass DI and a piano spot, as piano and bass definition will be the first to get lost in the flood of sound.

Some of Jack Renner’s early Telarc jazz recordings are simple 3-mic setups, if you’re looking for high fidelity inspiration on how this might sound if done well. Keep in mind these were done with long setup and rehearsal times to get balances right.

And finally, as much as they are willing, make sure the bass amp isn’t too loud and/or too boomy on stage, and ask the drummer not to overplay. The first should be easy enough, the second might be forgotten about quickly. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard drummers overplay and then complain that they couldn’t hear anyone else.
So true about the drummer...

Actually, I feel I have no right to ask for sound level or way of playing for each musicians. What I usually say is "just enjoy playing". They play first for the audience and for themselves. This is what I want to get on a recording. And I think this is what makes an enjoyable recording too.

Good advice to place additional mic on piano or DI on bass... But I have to stick to a stereo microphone only.

NB: as for now, the stereo mic challenge is only for instrumental music. Once a band with a singer will ask me to get recorded that way there will be a problem. But then I think there will be a PA system. And this will help a bit.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #25
Lives for gear
What I am getting from the OP’s posts is that he wants his part of the live recording to be as easy as possible. One small stand, stereo mic only, everything fits in one bag, can’t be there for a sound check...etc.
What he seems to want from this forum is a secret formula to make his easy-peasy-breezy recordings sound like more professional recordings that would take a lot more time, equipment, and work than he is willing or perhaps able to invest.
I don’t see a way to consistently achieve the goal with the investment the OP would make.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #26
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushman View Post
What I am getting from the OP’s posts is that he wants his part of the live recording to be as easy as possible. One small stand, stereo mic only, everything fits in one bag, can’t be there for a sound check...etc.
What he seems to want from this forum is a secret formula to make his easy-peasy-breezy recordings sound like more professional recordings that would take a lot more time, equipment, and work than he is willing or perhaps able to invest.
I don’t see a way to consistently achieve the goal with the investment the OP would make.
As the OP previously said, he has done live multitrack recordings in the past... He knows what this implies. Bands also want simplicity and are in favour of a stereo mic recording.

That being said... I dont ask for a secret formula, but how would an experienced professional TV/radio broadcast engineer do with this set up? What are the things to take care of? What are the usual EQ settings to go to (if there are ones)?

Thank you.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #27
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by _barnee View Post
As the OP previously said, he has done live multitrack recordings in the past... He knows what this implies. Bands also want simplicity and are in favour of a stereo mic recording.

That being said... I dont ask for a secret formula, but how would an experienced professional TV/radio broadcast engineer do with this set up? What are the things to take care of? What are the usual EQ settings to go to (if there are ones)?

Thank you.
Ok. I'll try again. . .from a musician's perspective: The musicians have to care, and have the skill, and invest themselves in the process. They generally - I think - can't just set up anywhere they please and bump out a tune.

There are many examples of one mic recordings [including stereo] that have impressed the heck out of me. But they seem to usually include talented musicians who hit their marks and take responsibility to control dynamics.

Examples include:

https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...one+mic+series

I suppose you've likely seen some / many of these videos and read the associated descriptions and comments? What specifically - aside from the Rode mic [1] - is separating your situation from these?


A musician [with a lot of jazz in my back pocket],

Ray H.

[1] Limited experience recording live music here; but there seems to me to be a world of difference between the Rode NT4 and a Josephson C700S. So from that perspective, I'm not sure those comparisons would ever be a fair fight?
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #28
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by _barnee View Post
I dont ask for a secret formula, but how would an experienced professional TV/radio broadcast engineer do with this set up?
Most of the engineers who have responded wouldn’t use this set up if they were seeking a balanced pro recording. You apparently aren’t limited to this set up and time investment, but you have chosen it.
Maybe you can find some kid from a college program who would be willing to put in some time and work doing the recording and you can do the studio production of the final project. Do the work you are interested in and find someone who is interested in the work you are not so interested in.
And I’ll get out of your thread at this point, because you are seeking more positive responses.
Again, good luck.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _barnee View Post
(...) then I think there will be a PA system. And this will help a bit.
this is whishful thinking/on the contrary: with a pa, you're vastly changing things in terms of levels between instruments (some need more amplification than others), between direct, reflected and diffuse sound, in terms of dynamics and the interplay between musicians plus you cannot escape the idiosyncrasies of the pa, its alignment and behaviour inside the venue - short: you'll be dealing with additional issues...

Quote:
You won't get rejected for not meeting a LUFS on services hosting podcasts... Your sound will just be smashed by their limiter because THEY will make your audio file matching the -14LUFS. That's what I want to avoid.
files which are low-ish in level mostly don't cause problems: it's the overcompressed, oversaturated, clipped files which are problematic!

Quote:
how would an experienced professional TV/radio broadcast engineer do with this set up?
those i know (including me) would NOT use this setup unless they'de be forced to do so!
post some pics of the venue: maybe some damping (absorbers, diffusors, gobos, curtains etc.) could help to mitigate some of the worst issues which come with such a setup and somewhat inexperienced personel...


besides: if musician are telling the 'engineer' what approach/technique to use, mostl likely there's a problem in terms of experience, communication and a few more topics...




p.s. are you getting paid for this?
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #30
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushman View Post
Most of the engineers who have responded wouldn’t use this set up if they were seeking a balanced pro recording. You apparently aren’t limited to this set up and time investment, but you have chosen it.
Maybe you can find some kid from a college program who would be willing to put in some time and work doing the recording and you can do the studio production of the final project. Do the work you are interested in and find someone who is interested in the work you are not so interested in.
And I’ll get out of your thread at this point, because you are seeking more positive responses.
Again, good luck.
Yeah, actually I'm seeking for responses to the challenge.

I choose this set up because it is simple to carry and set up. And ALSO because it is a musician request. So from this, the challenge remains to make it with a stereo microphone.

From what I have achieved to produce yesterday... I'm pretty close. Low parts are levelled up, and loud parts are controlled. File is -14LUFS with -2dbFS True Peak. I have compared to some mastered studio recordings and for sure there is a difference, but very small. And more importantly: this is listenable.

I've done it on one recording, I'll see if I can replicate on others.
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