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Best way to live stream a recital?
Old 20th August 2020
  #31
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Ol' Betsey's Avatar
Hi guys,

Great thread. And thanks for Black Magic AHEM Mini tip, 2ManyRocks!

Does anyone have a cheap and cheerful suggestions for cameras that do clean HDMI output?

I've just had my 2nd tour canceled (first tour in Spring 2020 pulled, rescheduled shows for Fall 2020 just pulled today and now have to wait until Spring 2021...) and am looking to set up a little streaming space in the studio for acoustic shows and whatnot.

I don't need any fancy frills (I don't think?) but if you have some ideas for nice cameras I might look into on the used market that would be greatly welcome.

Cheers fellas!

R.
Old 20th August 2020
  #32
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Panasonic GX85 is about $300 used. Panasonic G7 is about $500 new with the kit lens.

Ultra cheap--look for a camcorder that has clean hdmi out. I have an old Canon HFM500 that will do clean hdmi out. My panasonic GH3 has better picture quality, IMO, but you can find camcorders with clean hdmi out for about $150.

For the latest and greatest autofocus, that means spending more for a Sony, Nikon or Canon.

But for inexpensive that doesn't overheat, I'd say look for a Panasonic.

the GX85 does not have a mic input---so you'd be importing audio into the atem through the atem audio ports or having to input audio into your computer through OBS via another interface.
Old 21st August 2020
  #33
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Ol' Betsey's Avatar
Thanks 2manyrocks!

Will definitely look into all of those. The GX85 (GX80 here in Europe) is actually priced really nicely and as you suggested gets generally great reviews all-round so might head straight for that.

Really appreciate it!

R.





Quote:
Originally Posted by 2manyrocks View Post
Panasonic GX85 is about $300 used. Panasonic G7 is about $500 new with the kit lens.

Ultra cheap--look for a camcorder that has clean hdmi out. I have an old Canon HFM500 that will do clean hdmi out. My panasonic GH3 has better picture quality, IMO, but you can find camcorders with clean hdmi out for about $150.

For the latest and greatest autofocus, that means spending more for a Sony, Nikon or Canon.

But for inexpensive that doesn't overheat, I'd say look for a Panasonic.

the GX85 does not have a mic input---so you'd be importing audio into the atem through the atem audio ports or having to input audio into your computer through OBS via another interface.
Old 22nd August 2020
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2manyrocks View Post
For the latest and greatest autofocus, that means spending more for a Sony, Nikon or Canon.

But for inexpensive that doesn't overheat, I'd say look for a Panasonic.
or Olympus for no overheating and phase detect autofocus.

Also streaming benefits from DC powering or USB C tether power and SDI if cameras are more than a few metres from the ATEM.
Old 22nd August 2020
  #35
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Ol' Betsey's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Spearritt View Post
Also streaming benefits from DC powering or USB C tether power and SDI if cameras are more than a few metres from the ATEM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Spearritt View Post
or Olympus for no overheating and phase detect autofocus.
Thanks David!

Any Panasonic Lumina (GX80) price-equivalent I might look into from Olympus?

And do any of them (again hoping price-equivalent) have any of the features you mention above?

Many thanks,

R.
Old 22nd August 2020
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ol' Betsey View Post
Thanks David!

Any Panasonic Lumina (GX80) price-equivalent I might look into from Olympus?

And do any of them (again hoping price-equivalent) have any of the features you mention above?

Many thanks,

R.
The best value Olympus with phase detect autofocus and 4k video is the M5 iii.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ..._mark_iii.html

Amazing features for the money.
Old 23rd August 2020
  #37
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JCBigler's Avatar
Side bar to the main discussion here.

Many of the consumer/prosumer DSLR and mirrorless cameras (from Canon, Sony, Nikon, etc..) have a record time limit of 29:59 due to some asinine tax law somewhere. Does anyone know if you connect one of those type of cameras to the Black Magic ATEM Mini switchers if you can get around that limit? Or doe the cameras still have to be in record mode when running through the switcher?
Old 23rd August 2020
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCBigler View Post
Side bar to the main discussion here.

Many of the consumer/prosumer DSLR and mirrorless cameras (from Canon, Sony, Nikon, etc..) have a record time limit of 29:59 due to some asinine tax law somewhere. Does anyone know if you connect one of those type of cameras to the Black Magic ATEM Mini switchers if you can get around that limit? Or doe the cameras still have to be in record mode when running through the switcher?
My understanding is it is a on board recording limit not a clean HDMI output limit. But I haven't left my Olympus camera feeding HDMI that long yet to test definitively.
Old 23rd August 2020
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCBigler View Post
Side bar to the main discussion here.

Many of the consumer/prosumer DSLR and mirrorless cameras (from Canon, Sony, Nikon, etc..) have a record time limit of 29:59 due to some asinine tax law somewhere. Does anyone know if you connect one of those type of cameras to the Black Magic ATEM Mini switchers if you can get around that limit? Or doe the cameras still have to be in record mode when running through the switcher?
Its not just tax....a still camera can have the sensor undergo considerable heating in continuously recording video, so there are practical limitations too. This may be a red herring, as the 29:59 limit was designed for EU tax circumvention...not as an overheating fix ? Presumably there are thus uncrippled cameras working fine, freed of that limit ?

This shows the issue: https://www.quora.com/Is-there-a-way...ong-form-video

If you search there are firmware hacks which can disable that disablement...but of course there are hardware risks involved, so research carefully first.

For Canon's: https://magiclantern.fm/about.html
For Sony's: https://github.com/ma1co/OpenMemories-Tweak

For example: https://www.sinewaveproductions.com/...-firmware-hack

The link above suggests that there's a change afoot in the tax legislation, which would be very welcome...but I don't see how that could be made retrospective for existing cameras...unless the mfrs engineered official firmware enabling this ? If it happens, I wonder if they'll address the overheating issue too ?

"Our A cams for these types of shoot have upgraded to the latest Sony a7iii that do not yet have a similar hack! It is less of an issue since this camera is always operated and can be restarted manually quite easily every 30min.
When will that hack be released for the a7iii though? We don't know. But the limitation could be lifted prior to it, following a change in the tax legislation dictated by the Information Technology Agreement"
https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e...e/inftec_e.htm

Last edited by studer58; 23rd August 2020 at 10:25 AM..
Old 23rd August 2020
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCBigler View Post
Side bar to the main discussion here.

Many of the consumer/prosumer DSLR and mirrorless cameras (from Canon, Sony, Nikon, etc..) have a record time limit of 29:59 due to some asinine tax law somewhere. Does anyone know if you connect one of those type of cameras to the Black Magic ATEM Mini switchers if you can get around that limit? Or doe the cameras still have to be in record mode when running through the switcher?
I have not tested this with an ATEM, but I suspect that the ATEMs are just looking for an HDMI signal and aren't dependent on whether the camera is set to record or not.

I tested a Canon RP that has the 29:59 minute by connecting it to the HDMI to USB converter I've already linked. My computer sees it as just another webcam. The RP runs as long as the camera battery runs which is roughly about an hour and a half. I'm not recording to the internal camera card, and I've turned off the power savings/timeouts in the camera menu. I didn't see any overheating issues, either.
Old 23rd August 2020
  #41
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
Its not just tax....a still camera can have the sensor undergo considerable heating in continuously recording video, so there are practical limitations too. This may be a red herring, as the 29:59 limit was designed for EU tax circumvention...not as an overheating fix ? Presumably there are thus uncrippled cameras working fine, freed of that limit ?

This shows the issue: https://www.quora.com/Is-there-a-way...ong-form-video

If you search there are firmware hacks which can disable that disablement...but of course there are hardware risks involved, so research carefully first.

For Canon's: https://magiclantern.fm/about.html
For Sony's: https://github.com/ma1co/OpenMemories-Tweak

For example: https://www.sinewaveproductions.com/...-firmware-hack

The link above suggests that there's a change afoot in the tax legislation, which would be very welcome...but I don't see how that could be made retrospective for existing cameras...unless the mfrs engineered official firmware enabling this ? If it happens, I wonder if they'll address the overheating issue too ?

"Our A cams for these types of shoot have upgraded to the latest Sony a7iii that do not yet have a similar hack! It is less of an issue since this camera is always operated and can be restarted manually quite easily every 30min.
When will that hack be released for the a7iii though? We don't know. But the limitation could be lifted prior to it, following a change in the tax legislation dictated by the Information Technology Agreement"
https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e...e/inftec_e.htm
It may be camera specific whether the camera will output HDMI endlessly without shutting off, but I suspect many are capable of outputting an HDMI signal to OSB, an ATMOS or an ATEM pro or ATEM ISO for recording externally without shutting down due to the 29 minute limit so long as you aren't recording internally.

The cheap way to test it if you already have the camera is to get one of these cheap HDMI to USB converters and see how long your camera will output an HDMI signal when not recording internally. Or connect it to a monitor using an appropriate HDMI cable and see how long it will output a signal without shutting off.
Old 24th August 2020
  #42
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I have an iPad. Is there a way to combine my Panasonic G85 HDMI output and good audio from my Sonosax SX-M2D2 USB-C output, sync the audio and video and feed it to the iPad for livestreaming via the Facebook App?
Thanks
Old 24th August 2020
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Folkie View Post
I have an iPad. Is there a way to combine my Panasonic G85 HDMI output and good audio from my Sonosax SX-M2D2 USB-C output, sync the audio and video and feed it to the iPad for livestreaming via the Facebook App?
Thanks
This guy shows how to connect a Apple adapter to a recent Ipad pro with the USB-C port along with a USB adapter and an audio adapter to livestream. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPKjZg2o8t4

The HDMI to USB adapter I linked is also Android and MacOS compatible, and I would assume it would work with the setup in the youtube video. But I can't guarantee it because I don't have the specific Ipad or the other adapters shown in that video.

Since the G85 has a mic input, you wouldn't have to sync video and audio if you input audio from the sonosax into the G85 and then output audio and video over hdmi.

Last edited by 2manyrocks; 24th August 2020 at 03:20 PM..
Old 27th August 2020
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Spearritt View Post
The best value Olympus with phase detect autofocus and 4k video is the M5 iii.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ..._mark_iii.html

Amazing features for the money.
I haven't looked specifically at the M5 III, but in looking at the M1 II with the newest 3.1 firmware, the AF in video looks good when using Olympus lenses.

Some of those testing the newer firmware have cautioned that it is best to match brands of bodies and lenses if you want the best video AF performance.
Old 1st September 2020
  #45
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I've been thinking more about David's post suggesting the EM5.3 at $999. From what I've read, the EM5.3, has features similar to the EM1.2 ($1,399) albeit with a smaller 1,210 mah battery versus the 1,720 maH battery in the EM1.2.

Having also read that the current 3.2 firmware for the EM1.2 dramatically improves its AF and seeing that used copies with low shutter counts are selling for $600-700, I now have a used EM1.2 on hand.

None of this is intended as a buy or not buy recommendation, but simply personal opinion and initial first impression, FWIW.

Compared to my GH3 and RP, the EM1.2 is also comfortable to grip and the controls are well placed.

Battery life is very good.

AF, color, sharpness, white balance are very pleasing to my eye as well.

The EM1.2 menu seems more difficult, IMPO.

The GH3 has dedicated buttons for WB, ISO, and exposure compensation. The EM1.2 has a brilliant one touch WB balance feature.

The GH3 has no recording time limit.

At first impression, I prefer the DPAF on the RP, but DPAF goes away in 4k on the RP.

IBIS on the EM1.2 works well.

The shutter on the EM1.2 seems very quick and responsive.

The EM1.2 has a micro HDMI output. I prefer a larger connection.

Olympus has reportedly sold its camera division to another company. Remains to be seen what practical effect will happen insofar as camera buyers are concerned.

Camera sales were declining before covid, and are apparently much worse. It remains to be seen if there will be some significant price discounts later this year.

Besides the EM5.3 at $999, the RP is also $999. The Panasonic G9 is currently $1,197, but has previously been on sale for about $1,000. The G9 also has a 3,680 dot EVF and a 1,860 maH battery.

At $1,399, a new EM1.2 is getting in the same price range as a Nikon Z5, Canon R (on sale/refurbished) or a used Z6.

I would say that a used EM1.2 with a low shutter count in good condition is still worth considering at $600-$700 if AF is important, but I would also say that it could be worth waiting until this year's Black Friday and year end sales to see what the other options may be.

With used prices of the GX85 ranging from $200-$300, you could buy two or three GX85s for a multi-cam shoot for the price of one of the higher priced cameras. Combine some GX85s with an $895 ATEM Mini Pro ISO, and it then becomes possible to quickly edit all the camera footage in post at a more affordable overall price point, and the ATEM makes multi-cam streaming easier.

Just my random thoughts.
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Old 1st September 2020
  #46
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tourtelot's Avatar
Bummed to find that neither my Olympus OM-D E-M5 v.I or my Pen F will do straight HDMI streaming to OBS. A camera limitation on both bodies.

Both will still record of course and they both take awesome stills. So there is that.

D.
Old 2nd September 2020
  #47
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It can be tricky because some cameras have HDMI ports, but do not have the option for "clean hdmi" output.

With the M1.2 being replaced by the M1.3, poor camera sales this year, and the sale of the Olympus division, I suspect there are going to be some deals on the M1.2.

For example, in the UK there is an now offer to get a free Olympus F1.2 Pro lens with the purchase of a new M1.2. Haven't seen that deal in the US....yet.

To me, the larger body, dual card slots and the larger battery make the M1.2 more appealing with the version 3.2 firmware than the M5.3 if they put a good clearance price on the M1.2.

AF video test by Rob Trek of the M1.2 using the firmware update: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZwgCxXlJSs

That being said, I'm no expert on Olympus. I am struggling with the menu system.
Old 19th September 2020
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanmccoy View Post
Regarding the audio, the ATEM has a pair of unbalanced 3.5 mm mic inputs. They're mini-TRS, but specs incorrectly call them 'stereo'.
The audio inputs on my ATEM Mini Pro are definitely two separate stereo mini-jack 15dBu inputs.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Spearritt View Post
The audio inputs on my ATEM Mini Pro are definitely two separate stereo mini-jack 15dBu inputs.
The jacks are labelled "Mic 1" and "Mic 2." Are you saying they're actually unbalanced stereo mic inputs on a single 3.5 mm? Four audio channels?

Edit: I see that stereo mics with 3.5 mm jacks do exist. How strange.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanmccoy View Post
The jacks are labelled "Mic 1" and "Mic 2." Are you saying they're actually unbalanced stereo mic inputs on a single 3.5 mm? Four audio channels?

Edit: I see that stereo mics with 3.5 mm jacks do exist. How strange.
Correct. 4 separate mic or line inputs, selected as such in the settings page of the ATEM control software. BMD published info and specs are poor. Make sure your audio interface is set to output 15dBu or consumer line level. Its very easy to overload these audio inputs. I know because I have done it. :(
Old 4 weeks ago
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Spearritt View Post
Correct. 4 separate mic or line inputs, selected as such in the settings page of the ATEM control software. BMD published info and specs are poor. Make sure your audio interface is set to output 15dBu or consumer line level. Its very easy to overload these audio inputs. I know because I have done it. :(
Yeah, I can imagine it might be hard to get a usable level from any interface's balanced outputs. That's really a weird setup, since the vast majority of signals that might be coming in will be mono. Does the software accommodate that?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #52
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The price of the OM-D Em1 mark II has dropped to the same as the OM-D E-M5 Mark III in the US. The EM1.2 has the bigger battery and now may be the better deal in the US.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #53
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EM1 m2 an amazing deal now. Superb camera for that money.

Last edited by David Spearritt; 2 weeks ago at 12:20 PM..
Old 5 days ago
  #54
Lives for gear
There's been a further $100 price drop through Oct. 20 on the m1.2.

I have a Nikon Z50 on the way. Might be interesting to do a comparison. Right off the bat, the M1.2 has a larger battery that's less expensive than the Z50 battery and there are more native Olympus lenses for the m1.2 than the two native DX lenses for the Z50. M1.2 also has IBIS and a headphone jack.

We also have the Fujifilm XS 10 arriving at about the same price point--IBIS, tilt screen, joystick, DSLRish body design, but uses the NP-W126S battery (1260 mAH).

Then there's the Panasonic G9, too and the Sony A6400.
Old 4 days ago
  #55
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Shot about 80-90 images on the Z50 with the Z50 kit lens and compared them against my M1.2 photos today. I have Nikon DSLRs and was curious about the Z50 because of the positive reviews elsewhere. I didn't have the cable I needed to test the video output on the Z50.

As of today with the current sale, the m1.2 and the Z50 are about the same price except the Z50 includes a kit lens. The m1.2 has a much larger battery, a flip screen, IBIS, and there are many good Olympus lenses to choose from.

I'm glad I bought the m1.2 and the Z50 is going back.

edit: another day later....tried the Z50 video on a tripod. It's sharp, AF appears seamless, colors are nice. It's nice that the view screen continues to show all of the relevant camera settings while outputting clean HDMI signal externally into OBS. The video looks good and the menus are easily navigated.

When shooting video hand held, I missed the IBIS feature of the M1.2.

IMO, one practical limitation is the only battery option for the Z50 is the $70 Nikon version and there do not appear to be any options from Nikon or third parties for a dummy battery. You could livestream until the battery dies....but there is no AC power option that I see at the moment.

The other practical limitation is there are only two DX Nikon lenses for the Z50 and the FTZ adapter is $240 ish in the US unless you buy the Z50 and both kit lenses or the body only plus the adapter in which case the FTZ is another $47. But ....only G series lenses will AF. D series lenses will not auto focus with the FTZ.

Value wise, the Canon RP was selling at one time for roughly the same price range with the EF to RF adapter included and there are plenty of inexpensive EF lenses to be had used which will auto focus well on the RP. The RP also uses the same battery as the Rebel series so there are plenty of battery options for the RP.

I'd be more excited about the Z50 if it were simply an f mount mirrorless camera that could use my existing lenses without any adapter and made use of the larger EN-EL15 1900 mAh Nikon battery. I will say that the Z50 video when shot on a tripod looks good.

Last edited by 2manyrocks; 3 days ago at 01:00 AM..
Old 17 hours ago
  #56
Lives for gear
After running three or four video tests between my m1.2, RP, and Z50, I'm having second thoughts about returning the Z50. The Z50 autofocus in video mode just seems to lock on and not let go with excellent sharpness, color and exposure.

Nikon rates the Z50 battery as good for 75 minutes of video. A source I consider reliable streamed with his Z50 for 2 hours on one battery.

Gonna have to do more testing with the FTZ adapter when it gets here. Now I'm curious what the Z50 can do with other lenses.
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