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Do you really need to run the entire rig off one outlet?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1
Do you really need to run the entire rig off one outlet?

Hi, never posted in this forum before on GS, thanks for any guidance in advance.

So I have a studio my dad and I are finishing building in our basement and just passed all electrical inspections today. Before we plug in about 50 pieces of outboard into the new grid we Just wanted to know if that old wives tail that all gear should run off one outlet (or was it one breaker?) whats rule of thumb here?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #2
If your grounding is done properly it won't matter.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #3
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The one outlet/circuit was a simplified way of making sure everything was on the same ground. If all your studio circuits are grounded correctly to the same ground (which they should be), then the "one outlet/circuit" is a meaningless rule.

And generally, if you are running a lot of equipment it is a bad idea to run it all on one circuit anyway because you will overload the circuit or trip the breaker.
Old 1 week ago
  #4
Perfect thank you so much
Old 1 week ago
  #5
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nosebleedaudio's Avatar
 

Just make sure they are on the same Phase in the panel..
The electrician will try and use the typical 2 legs one neutral, I would only use 2 (Or more) circuits with 3 wires per outlet SAME Phase.....
By the way, I have had to correct this many times to reduce hum..
Its NOT the ground, its the SAME phase that makes a big difference.
Old 1 week ago
  #6
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jimjazzdad's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by nosebleedaudio View Post
Just make sure they are on the same Phase in the panel..
The electrician will try and use the typical 2 legs one neutral, I would only use 2 (Or more) circuits with 3 wires per outlet SAME Phase.....
By the way, I have had to correct this many times to reduce hum..
Its NOT the ground, its the SAME phase that makes a big difference.
Nitpicking perhaps, but in North America 99.9% of residential wiring and a large percentage of commercial wiring comes from a single phase service. With single phase service, at the main panel there will be two main feed wires: L1 & L2 plus a Neutral wire that is referenced to ground (but distinct from the 'green safety ground'). With three phase service, there are three feed wires: L1, L2 & L3 plus a Neutral . A nominal 120V is available between any "L" wire and Neutral. So nosebleed would be more accurate in stating that all the studio gear should be powered by circuits fed from the same 'L" wire and Neutral; this should not be termed as "on the same Phase in the panel" unless the main service entrance is three-phase (i.e. has L1, L2 & L3 plus a Neutral). I know, semantics...

Also, this thread probably belongs in All Things Technical.

Last edited by jimjazzdad; 1 week ago at 01:58 PM.. Reason: Additional comment
Old 1 week ago
  #7
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nosebleedaudio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimjazzdad View Post
Nitpicking perhaps, but in North America 99.9% of residential wiring and a large percentage of commercial wiring comes from a single phase service. With single phase service, at the main panel there will be two main feed wires: L1 & L2 plus a Neutral wire that is referenced to ground (but distinct from the 'green safety ground'). With three phase service, there are three feed wires: L1, L2 & L3 plus a Neutral . A nominal 120V is available between any "L" wire and Neutral. So nosebleed would be more accurate in stating that all the studio gear should be powered by circuits fed from the same 'L" wire and Neutral; this should not be termed as "on the same Phase in the panel" unless the main service entrance is three-phase (i.e. has L1, L2 & L3 plus a Neutral). I know, semantics...

Also, this thread probably belongs in All Things Technical.
Yes I know, I also called it Leg, so was trying to use terminology most electricians use, I use to do that as well..
So yes, single phase, but they are 180 degrees out of phase with each other..
Now we only use Neutral when its equal between the two Lines, other wise its called a "Grounded conductor" Which is what a "Neutral" is also..

This CAN be confusing, since three phase is a Time spacing between any two/three hot legs/Lines..
Old 1 week ago
  #8
Gear Maniac
 

I'd further suggest from nosebleed's correct description that it's most important for the analog signal components. The purely digital components, computers and the like, are not so affected. The problem of loading all your studio on only one of the two service legs is seriously unbalancing the service feed. The non analog signal components can be grouped on the other leg, leaving the chosen analog signal components on the relatively clean leg.

Tom
Old 1 week ago
  #9
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nosebleedaudio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tailspn View Post
I'd further suggest from nosebleed's correct description that it's most important for the analog signal components. The purely digital components, computers and the like, are not so affected. The problem of loading all your studio on only one of the two service legs is seriously unbalancing the service feed. The non analog signal components can be grouped on the other leg, leaving the chosen analog signal components on the relatively clean leg.

Tom
Plus it takes a LOT out outboard gear to add up up to 15 amps..A LOT...
Old 1 week ago
  #10
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jimjazzdad's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by nosebleedaudio View Post
Plus it takes a LOT out outboard gear to add up up to 15 amps..A LOT...
True. Unless its all tube gear

And its seldom ever an issue on a typical remote location gig (unless you're like Steve Remote with one of his trucks full of gear, in which case you may well have your own power). With the average remote gig, if you can plug a power bar into a circuit that's not shared by lighting or other noise-generating loads, you're usually set. Old churches can sometimes be challenging.

But the OP was talking about wiring a studio, which is really a different thing altogether.
Old 1 week ago
  #11
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standard installations in (newer) buildings over here are 125A, 63A, 32A or 16A three-phase but even with the fairly large location rig which i'm mostly using (desk, stageboxes, recorders, some outboard plus monitoring), i never ever max out any of these and need but max 12A single phase - yes, all from a single outlet (two actually for redundant power supplies)!

you should check what the lighties and videots (if using a video wall) are using these days: by comparison, requirement even for large pa's are mostly very reasonable (and can easily get calculated)...
Old 1 week ago
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah View Post
you should check what the lighties and videots (if using a video wall) are using these days: by comparison, requirement even for large pa's are mostly very reasonable (and can easily get calculated)...
I know screen power draw has probably dropped since plasma type screens were replaced by LCD, but am guessing that video walls still draw a LOT of juice ? Are they entirely free of radiated RF, or is that also a factor to be considered when working with video walls, when it comes to mic/cable/mic preamp sensitivity with radiated fields ?
Old 1 week ago
  #13
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I have a large system at home. I can run everything from a 15 amp breaker except for the second set of monitors. The second set of monitors use 2 x 500 watt mono blocks. I had to run a long extension cord to another room to make that part work.
Old 1 week ago
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
I know screen power draw has probably dropped since plasma type screens were replaced by LCD, but am guessing that video walls still draw a LOT of juice ? Are they entirely free of radiated RF, or is that also a factor to be considered when working with video walls, when it comes to mic/cable/mic preamp sensitivity with radiated fields ?
i dunno much about video technology (except for what i get to see on large live productions) - judging on the basis of this limited experience, video walls are a drag in every way:

they weight tons, consume insane amounts of power, you need to wear sun glasses during setup, rf is all over the place and they can even throw off switching power supplies of amps and occasionally of some wireless gear - and i'm not yet talking about the crap that gets displayed on them..

to illustrate the cause of my (occasinonal and re-occuring) frustration: i had to cancel two recordings in the last year alone (after discussions with the production manager and promotor failed); now these productions clearly didn't carry the newest gear so there is some hope IF things will become better?!

what seems to help under harsh conditions is: no ribbons, shortest possible cable runs, best possible shielding, ups on all recording gear.

___


[however, once that's sorted out, chances are that the lighties start making noise with their moving heads but that's yet another topic...]
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Old 1 week ago
  #15
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Bignatius's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by nosebleedaudio View Post
Plus it takes a LOT out outboard gear to add up up to 15 amps..A LOT...
My horticultural lights would like a word.
Old 1 week ago
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah View Post
i dunno much about video technology (except for what i get to see on large live productions) - judging on the basis of this limited experience, video walls are a drag in every way:t[
I'm guessing that having your own ups would protect against mains borne noise induced onto the powerlines by such big current draws ? I'm so happy I only have to contend with a couple of data projectors occasionally !
Old 1 week ago
  #17
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ups is for protecting me from idiots unplugging my gear accidentally (hd recorders and the digital desk sound so much better with power on...) - but yes, different mains for audio and video/light and (analog audio) signals from/to video get balanced/isolated via transformers: every pc gets a radial usb-di or else won't connect to my gear and i'm carrying a line level isolator!
Old 6 days ago
  #18
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nosebleedaudio View Post
Just make sure they are on the same Phase in the panel..
The electrician will try and use the typical 2 legs one neutral, I would only use 2 (Or more) circuits with 3 wires per outlet SAME Phase.....
By the way, I have had to correct this many times to reduce hum..
Its NOT the ground, its the SAME phase that makes a big difference.
Another old wives tale. As Jim said, if the grounding is correct, it won't matter at all.

Geoff
Old 6 days ago
  #19
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nosebleedaudio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cbc6403 View Post
Another old wives tale. As Jim said, if the grounding is correct, it won't matter at all.

Geoff
so, you don't think this can create a problem?
Old 6 days ago
  #20
Gear Maniac
 

I worked in a multi-studio complex for over 30 years which had a 3 phase panel in each studio. Loads were distributed across all 3 phases. The studios were quiet (equipment was able to meet spec, and yes, we tested it). And the vast majority of the equipment during that time either was analog or digital with analog interfaces between equipment.

Any noise problems that cropped up were because of contaminated grounds (not plugging equipment into the technical power system), or pin 1 problems with individual pieces. Lighting was kept on a separate panel and non-technical ground system, but there were no isolation transformers within the building, just one big 800A 120/208V transformer on a pad outside.

Geoff
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