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What are your favorite dynamic and ribbon mikes for vocals?
Old 12th June 2002
  #1
Jr. Gear Slut 2nd class
 
chessparov's Avatar
 

What are your favorite dynamic and ribbon mikes for vocals?

So much emphasis is on large diaphram condensers that maybe a look
at dynamics and ribbons might be an interesting change of pace.
My experience with the "better" dynamics is limited so far to;

1) Shure Beta 57 (favorite so far)
2) Sennheiser 421 MKII (bit "bright" so it's #2)
3) Shure SM57 (well what could I say that's new on this one!)
4) Misc. others (including Sennheiser e835 & EV Cobalt C09)

Curious for any comments on;

1) Large diaphram ala SM7, EV RE20, 441, etc.
2) Beyer M88 and other alternatives to the "usual" SM58
3) Ribbons great and small.

Thanks in advance for any responses!
Chris

P.S. My understanding is that the Beyer M88 (& M88TG) sound similar
to the Sennheiser 441-does that make sense?
Will the Beyer make me sound like Phil Collins? (just kidding)
Old 12th June 2002
  #2
Lives for gear
 
Mike Tholen's Avatar
 

the sm7 may be one of the most desirable vocal mics short of your usual suspects.
Old 12th June 2002
  #3
Jr. Gear Slut 2nd class
 
chessparov's Avatar
 

Love to try out a SM7 sometime, not typically the kind of microphone that's at
a "guitar mart" type of place-like quite a few others on the list.
As you may know, it's pretty popular in Nashville.
Harvey Gerst has said he always keeps one set up and ready to go.
A low sensitivity mike like this seems to be a good test of a mic pre,
along with most of the ribbons (have an Aphex 107).

Chris
Old 12th June 2002
  #4
Gear Addict
 

The cage on the SM-7 is their attempt to prevent proximity buildup for voiceover and announcer type apps, kind of a paralell to the Electrovoice Variable-D approach in the RE-20. The added benefit on the SM-7 is it keeps mic eaters from botching a performance by being right on the diaphragm, unless of course you want that. So while it isn't as high output as eating an SM-57, there is some merit. Also, it's a selected SM-57 capsule with smoother sounding electronics, which means if you need an edgy sound, maybe you're better off with the 57. I do believe it's Harvey's first call vocal mic, and he says it works the majority of the time.

The M-88 always struck me as an idealized SM-58, which I think is a wonderful thing, since I wouldn't really put a 58 up to anything but live sound. The 88 is much more useful and flexible, with a smoother sound that still has enough rise to put it out front. The MD-421 is great on guitar and drums, as is well known, but it is sometimes the mic for vocals when the other mics fail. Might not be my first call for this app, though, as it can sound a little clinical at times.

Eventually you'll want all of these guys, but the tough part in the meantime is picking out which ones to get first.

Bear
Old 12th June 2002
  #5
Jr. Gear Slut 2nd class
 
chessparov's Avatar
 

Has anyone noticed that much of a difference between the Beyer M88
and the M88TG due to difference in the grill?
Seems like the M88TG would be a great "all rounder" for live/studio use.

Chris
Old 12th June 2002
  #6
Lives for gear
 
David R.'s Avatar
 

RE 20 is my go to mic. The other dynamic I use for vocals is an EV RE 38/ND. Made for broadcast, it has selectable eq boost/shelf settings on the back of the mic.

Ribbon mics, got to go with the 77dx. I just love that mic.
Old 12th June 2002
  #7
Gear Maniac
 
wurly's Avatar
 

SM7 Electronics?

I thought it had a diaphragm with a voice coil in a magnetic field, maybe with a transformer, but what's this about "electronics" in Shure dynamic mics?

I want to acquire an RE 20 and an SM7.

wurly

from Minnesota, the new home of Electro-Voice
Old 12th June 2002
  #8
"I want to acquire an RE 20 and an SM7."

Me too!

For a few years my first try vocal set up was RE20 into a TLA EQ1

SM7 worked on vocals sometimes and were the default tom tom mic's where I interned.
Old 13th June 2002
  #9
Gear Addict
 

Wurly, when I mentioned electronics, I was just referring to the transformer, dummy coil, and the roll off switching stuff on an SM-7, no active stuff I'm aware of.

David, I've seen mention of the RE-38 once or twice and am kind of intrigued. Care to describe it?

Bear
Old 13th June 2002
  #10
Gear Addict
 
cymatics's Avatar
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Gone Fission
David, I've seen mention of the RE-38 once or twice and am kind of intrigued. Care to describe it?

Hiya. Obviously I'm not David, but...
The RE-38 was a neat little jobbie that had something like 16 selectable EQ curves via a rotary dial on the back of the mike. It had a swivel mount assembly kinda like the ND468. I was gonna try to snipe one off ebay just a coupla weeks ago but I spaced on the end of the auction (doh!). It's been discontinued for a while now though.

I am loving my SM7. It's like a smoother 57 with a extended low end. In combination with a 57 on guitar it can be sonic bliss. It does have a switchable presence peak, but I prefer it in the 'flat' setting.

- Jon
Old 13th June 2002
  #11
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
For dynamics I need to get either an SM7 or RE-20 at some point. Those are just way too useful to not have. 441's are real interesting. Very smooth and tight with a slightly rising top. Also great on a lot of things but I tend to use them on snare, guitars, vocals and maybe toms if I have a few around. I have a love/hate relationship with the D112. Sometimes it sounds great, most of the time it sounds bad in bass drums. I like mine on floor toms, bass amps and guitar amps with another mic. If you find one used for a good price and you do band work it's good to have around. Usually between a 421 and D112 most bass drums are covered. It's nice to have choices.

Ribbons.... You can't go too wrong with a Beyer M160, Coles 4038, RCA 77DX or the Royers. They need a lot of gain unless you have them in front of a very loud source.
Old 13th June 2002
  #12
Jr. Gear Slut 2nd class
 
chessparov's Avatar
 

Like the condensers of yore, maybe it's time to collect great discontinued mikes like
the RCA 77DX while they're still relatively affordable.

Chris
Old 13th June 2002
  #13
Moderator emeritus
 

Quote:
Originally posted by chessparov
Like the condensers of yore, maybe it's time to collect great discontinued mikes like
the RCA 77DX while they're still relatively affordable.

Chris
And they do sound good - I've got a Clarence Kane restored 77DX and what I think is an unrestored 77B (no switches on the mic at all) and a 74B. They add a nice flavor, and are wonderful for acoustic basses.
Old 13th June 2002
  #14
Gear Maniac
 

another reason why I'm going to pick up one of those vintech x-73's....

Anyone ever run a sm-7 into a 1073 for vox? Have a friend that swore upon this, and his work is testiment you can buy in any record store. I gave the SM-7 a listen with the X-73 the other night, only myself while playing acoustic, and it's just another reason to buy the Vintech now. Low Maitenance is the phrase I was looking for....
Old 13th June 2002
  #15
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by Dave Martin


And they do sound good - I've got a Clarence Kane restored 77DX and what I think is an unrestored 77B (no switches on the mic at all) and a 74B. .
I've never seen or heard of a 74B. What's that one about?
Old 13th June 2002
  #16
Lives for gear
 
Fibes's Avatar
 

The 74b is also called a Junior in some circles... It's shape is similar to a 44 and although not a fave of mine is the most affordable RCA ribbons worth owning.

BK-5 for me please...

I know it's cheap and a front address condenser but the EV BK-1 is worth having around for guitars the occasional vocal and as of last night the isde snare mic. Whenever I've tried 'em all this thing always surprises me.
Old 13th June 2002
  #17
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David R.'s Avatar
 

Hi Bear, Jon has a good description. Here is a picture I found



The selector is on the back.

Love that Bob Dobbs smiley!
Old 13th June 2002
  #18
Lives for gear
 
David R.'s Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by chessparov
Like the condensers of yore, maybe it's time to collect great discontinued mikes like
the RCA 77DX while they're still relatively affordable.

Chris
I just bought 2 more 77dx, found them relatively expensive. Clarence Kane is working on them now. I hope to be able to sell them in 10 years and retire. I said hope.

rollz rollz rollz rollz rollz
Old 14th June 2002
  #19
Moderator emeritus
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Fibes
The 74b is also called a Junior in some circles... It's shape is similar to a 44 and although not a fave of mine is the most affordable RCA ribbons worth owning.

It's interesting that a bassist I know (who is currently out on the "Down From The Mountain' tour) actually prefers a 74B to a 77.on his instrument.
Old 14th June 2002
  #20
Gear Maniac
 
wurly's Avatar
 

RCA 74B

I could be confused here about model #'s but I believe I own a 74B.

It looks like a "44BX Jr.", a little less than 1/2 as big, with a chrome plated grill. Instead of the yoke swivel on the 44 it has a swivel ball underneath to give it a slight amount of available (physical) tilt. It's figure 8, no switches or acoustic options.

Originally sold as an announcers microphone, the 74B doesn't have the high end response of a 44 or 77, although Stephen Sank may be able to fix that. They are cheaper than 44s or 77s, but its fairly easy to find one in cosmetically perfect condition.
Old 17th June 2002
  #21
Jr. Gear Slut 2nd class
 
chessparov's Avatar
 

Jay (or anyone else), what EQ adjustments have you typically reached
for in order to improve a dynamic mike's sound?
On a different bbs you mentioned something about this by cutting
the low end and low mid's. What would be the frequencies to look
out for? It's understood this is somewhat case to case BTW.

Thanks
Chris
Old 17th June 2002
  #22
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
I might cut somehwere between 150 and 500hz by a few dB. It's not something that I do just to dynamic mics and/or all the time. If a track sounds too full or muddy I'll cut there before I boost up top. Remember, the EQ goes both ways.rollz
Old 17th June 2002
  #23
Jr. Gear Slut 2nd class
 
chessparov's Avatar
 

Good advice!

Thanks again,
Chris
Old 18th June 2002
  #24
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
The Beyer M88 is a wonderful vocal mic. I had a guy with a really high (Boston, Head East) voice. The M88 sounded ten times better than any of the condensers on him. I did the whole record with it through a loaned LA4.

The EV PL 20 (same as an RE 20 with different paint) has saved me a few times.

yuktyy
Old 19th June 2002
  #25
Jr. Gear Slut 2nd class
 
chessparov's Avatar
 

It's strange that hardly any dealers carry them. (M-88's)
www.fullcompass.com is the only one I know of.

Chris
Old 19th June 2002
  #26
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
Slickwater is also a Beyer dealer, so is BSW. You gotta get out of the guitar stores to find them and other goodies. My local shop doesn't stock Beyer but does a lot of installs so they can order anything and have it in a few days.
Old 20th June 2002
  #27
Gear Addict
 
cymatics's Avatar
 

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by cymatics
The RE-38 was a neat little jobbie that had something like 16 selectable EQ curves via a rotary dial on the back of the mike. It had a swivel mount assembly kinda like the ND468. I was gonna try to snipe one off ebay just a coupla weeks ago but I spaced on the end of the auction (doh!).

The gear gods have smiled upon me. Just took a trip to a nearby Pro Audio Shop and found a new RE-38 on clearance for $199

- Jon
Old 20th June 2002
  #28
Lives for gear
 
David R.'s Avatar
 

Thumbs up

What a score!rollz Let us know what you think of it.
Old 24th June 2002
  #29
Gear Addict
 
cymatics's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by David R.
What a score!rollz Let us know what you think of it.
Hmmmm... well, I tried it on floor tom, kick, guitar (Boogie dual rectum frier), and bass (full SVT rig), and so far it's doing very little for me . I think I like the idea of it better than the reality of it. That's just a first impression though, I'll report back if I find where it likes to be used... you like it on vocals huh?

- Jon
Old 26th June 2002
  #30
Lives for gear
 
David R.'s Avatar
 

Vocals are the only thing I've tried it on. Does not work on all vocals, but there are some where it is the only mic that sounds right. I would not rely on it as my only vocal mic, but it is a good 4th or 5th option.
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