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Mic stands - why so tall?
Old 1st October 2019
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe View Post
I was doing a recording of a professional string quartet. I was in a control room about 100 feet from the venue with no camera. The 2nd violinist kept complaining that he was not loud enough in the recording when we did a listen. We take a break and when we started again I noticed a big change in the soundscape so I came into the venue and the stereo XY microphone was moved from where I had it to directly in front of the 2nd violin. After some discussion I moved the microphones back to where they were and we continued the recording session. Talk about EGO!!! FWIW
I wonder if the same chap talks the surgeon through his own operation!
Old 1st October 2019
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe View Post
I was doing a recording of a professional string quartet. I was in a control room about 100 feet from the venue with no camera. The 2nd violinist kept complaining that he was not loud enough in the recording when we did a listen. We take a break and when we started again I noticed a big change in the soundscape so I came into the venue and the stereo XY microphone was moved from where I had it to directly in front of the 2nd violin. After some discussion I moved the microphones back to where they were and we continued the recording session. Talk about EGO!!! FWIW
I'm interested in the outcome of "after some discussion I moved the microphones back...."

I'm not condoning what he did (moving the stand) in any way, but I'm curious about the discussion: did he have a valid point in his complaint about being not loud enough, did you agree or disagree with him, was there any compromise possible (eg putting in a spot mic, which may or may not have been used later) ?

There must have been something in your discussion which placated him, so that the mic stand could go back to the original location...how did you achieve that ?

In the situation where the engineer is also producer, these issues have to be ironed out quickly, satisfactorily, effectively....so the session can proceed.

If the discussion devolves simply to "I'm the engineer/producer, I'm the Boss here, nobody moves my mic stands EVER"... then you may have won the battle but lost the war, in terms of making a convincing argument, meeting them half-way (or at least giving them the feeling that their complaints have been heard)

Interested to know how you achieved it in this case.

Last edited by studer58; 1st October 2019 at 06:20 AM..
Old 1st October 2019
  #33
Broke out the ol’ 154b for the first time in a while today!

I usually use the Sabra Som pieces and aftermarket hex rod with my sdc setups, but with these mics it gets a bit overstressed. The Manfrotto stepped in like a champ.
Attached Thumbnails
Mic stands - why so tall?-8dfd9627-c38c-4cca-aa14-bfa19e0b2db9.jpg  
Old 1st October 2019
  #34
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boojum's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe View Post
We take these to every gig for our mic stands https://www.amazon.com/StudioFX-SAND...ateway&sr=8-24

Works GREAT!
Thanks. Ordered a set.
Old 1st October 2019
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Poulton View Post
Because it's safer for the engineer, especially on live things, but is not as involving!

There was a time when it was thought that going high gave a false impression of the sound from a listener's point of view, but that idea seems to have fallen by the wayside now.
well... - the moment we have to use any technology (and we have to for obvious reasons), its use leaves a mark on a recording so from that perspective, there is no right or wrong...
depending on the results one is trying to achieve, one better doesn't aim too high - so no, can't relate to the statement (or its meaning) that using a specific technique (not going high) has fallen by the wayside now - on the contrary!
Old 1st October 2019
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by king2070lplaya View Post
Broke out the ol’ 154b for the first time in a while today!

I usually use the Sabra Som pieces and aftermarket hex rod with my sdc setups, but with these mics it gets a bit overstressed. The Manfrotto stepped in like a champ.
I've had the overstressed difficulty with Sabra Som and larger mics. It's the plastic adjuster that secures the whole thing to the mic stand that is the problem, a metal one would see that problemette solved.
Old 1st October 2019
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah View Post
well... - the moment we have to use any technology (and we have to for obvious reasons), its use leaves a mark on a recording so from that perspective, there is no right or wrong...
depending on the results one is trying to achieve, one better doesn't aim too high - so no, can't relate to the statement (or its meaning) that using a specific technique (not going high) has fallen by the wayside now - on the contrary!
I'm only the messenger for that comment! I put mics where I think they will sound the best and don't tend to rule things out.

However, I do recall it being discussed in exalted circles in Studio Sound in the 70s.

It depends on what you're confronted with.
Old 1st October 2019
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Poulton View Post
I'm only the messenger for that comment! I put mics where I think they will sound the best and don't tend to rule things out (...)
same here - i was just bringing up the topic 'cause if one wants to get precise localisation within the stereo or surround soundfield, one better doesn't go up too high imo.
Old 1st October 2019
  #39
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Stradivariusz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah View Post
same here - i was just bringing up the topic 'cause if one wants to get precise localisation within the stereo or surround soundfield, one better doesn't go up too high.
Depth too???
Old 4th October 2019
  #40
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Just a quick note to say the stands have arrived before a couple of the MC930s, so I threw some Sennheiser 9-series up instead.


I'm happy with how it all works - thanks everyone for the recommendations.

It's raining here, or I'd take it out into the back garden and see how high I can go.

Cheers,
Chris

PS - Bonus e935 Decca Tree
Attached Thumbnails
Mic stands - why so tall?-09-r9plsbf.jpg   Mic stands - why so tall?-09-ypeyjzv.jpg  
Old 4 days ago
  #41
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Just a quick note to say thanks to those that contributed to this thread. Having my mics up nice and high has helped to get some excellent results - I'm really pleased with the sounds I've been getting, and I'll try to share some of the results when I can.

Chris
Old 3 days ago
  #42
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John Willett's Avatar
 

Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe View Post
We take these to every gig for our mic stands https://www.amazon.com/StudioFX-SAND...ateway&sr=8-24

Works GREAT!
In the UK you can get THESE from Amazon UK
Old 3 days ago
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett View Post
In the UK you can get THESE from Amazon UK
They might be ok to drape over the feet/legs of a tripod John, but hardly the sort of look to win friends and influence videographers at your next public concert, if used as a boom counterweight !
Old 3 days ago
  #44
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Remoteness's Avatar
We use black colored sandbags.

Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
They might be ok to drape over the feet/legs of a tripod John, but hardly the sort of look to win friends and influence videographers at your next public concert, if used as a boom counterweight !
Old 3 days ago
  #45
0VU
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I have a bunch of black and blue Arri sandbags like these.

Fine if they're tucked away out of sight but, usefully, if you flip them over so that the handle and logos are on the inside you have an all black bag which is much less exciting for videographers and other appearance-sensitive types. And a several all black bags (simlar design to the Arri bags but with the addition of a metal D-ring for hanging from a line or carabiner) I had made for hanging on the bases of Ambient Jumbo booms when they might be in shot and a flash of colour would be a problem

I've also started filling them with chain rather than sand or lead/steel shot as that way you retain much of the weight and flexibility of the filling without having to worry about leaks leaving little mounds of slippery dry sand or metal balls on stages/floors when your carefully wrapped packages of filling inside the main bag eventually burst or otherwise open and seep out! Learnt that the hard way.
Attached Thumbnails
Mic stands - why so tall?-09-sandbags.jpg  
Old 3 days ago
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
They might be ok to drape over the feet/legs of a tripod John, but hardly the sort of look to win friends and influence videographers at your next public concert, if used as a boom counterweight !
They *are* also available in black.
Old 3 days ago
  #47
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I used to use sandbags on my stand base, but now I use this weight, which I have gaff-taped over so it is matte black. I could have painted it, but taping was just so much easier. You could also look into the Manfrotto 022 (15 lb) and 023 (10 lb) weights, but they are quite a bit more expensive. The 172 is only 3 lb and intended for a boom.

https://www.amazon.com/Neewer-Light-...dp/B07GX99R2D/
Old 3 days ago
  #48
I use the same thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by voltronic View Post
I used to use sandbags on my stand base, but now I use this weight, which I have gaff-taped over so it is matte black. I could have painted it, but taping was just so much easier. You could also look into the Manfrotto 022 (15 lb) and 023 (10 lb) weights, but they are quite a bit more expensive. The 172 is only 3 lb and intended for a boom.

https://www.amazon.com/Neewer-Light-...dp/B07GX99R2D/
Old 3 days ago
  #49
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For those who use round-base stands this screw-on weight (I'm guessing it's brand specific, but maybe not if the threading matches others ?) looks helpful in adding to the centre of "gravity"

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=p2ISXiT7jV4

Of course there's no reason why the same principle couldn't be applied to tripod stands also....since that's where the additional weight needs to be located for maximum effectiveness (arguably more so than simply buying a heavier stand....as it's about mass distribution, not mass per se)
Old 1 day ago
  #50
0VU
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Or, with standard K+M round base stands (the ones with the heavier black bases with the rubber ring in the bottom) you could use a standard 10kg dumbell weight plate with a 1" centre hole. The weight plate is slightly larger than the stand base but sits nicely on top of it and almost trebles the weight of the base. Just stack it on top of the stand plate, pass the upright rod through the hole in the dumbell plate and screw it into the stand base. (Or one can fit the dumbell weight over the top of the upright rod and lower it onto the base but the collar that secures the top rod of the telescoping stand is too large to fit through the hole in the dumbell plate so you have to fully unscrew that and lift it off first which takes about as long as doing it the other way.)

The weight plates are pretty cheap, especially if one is lucky enough to find a local gym closing down! (Be aware, though, that there is also an 'Olympic' standard for them which has a 2" centre hole which allows the plates to slide about on the base of stands whereas the 1" centre hole weights are a reasonably snug fit which stay put.)

(Just about visible on top of the normal K+M base of the taller stand in the picture.)

Also, there used to be a similar size and weight of circular cast iron stage weight which had a useful slot from the edge to the centre enabling them to be quickly slid on to any stand which fitted through the slot. For some reason they seem to have been discontinued by all the main makers of such things and the only places I can find them now tend to be older theatres who jealously guard them and never want to part with any! If anyone finds a good source of these I'd love to hear about it as I could use a few more of these.
Attached Thumbnails
Mic stands - why so tall?-20161208_171810-e.jpg  

Last edited by 0VU; 1 day ago at 02:23 AM..
Old 1 day ago
  #51
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Good idea 0VU, as those gym weights are commonplace at secondhand stores, garage sales etc. From memory the lower shaft of the K+M stands are 7/8" diameter, reducing to 5/8" for the upper telescoping section, so the 1" hole weights would be the best fit.

Unfortunately I'm always seeking more height than the typical round base 2 section stand provides....does anyone happen to know the tallest such stand K+M (or similar mfrs) make...or perhaps there are extension sections which can be retrofitted ?

It seems that the one you have pictured above gives sufficient height, although traditionally that's bordering on the zone of tripod based lighting stands...

This one from K&M seems to be the best candidate for a height extension, although why did they fit a 3/8" female thread to attach to the stand, when most (all ?) K&M stand poles terminate in a 5/8" thread ??
https://www.k-m.de/en/products/mic-s...r=20005-300-55

Last edited by studer58; 1 day ago at 06:01 AM..
Old 20 hours ago
  #52
0VU
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The stand pictured is the K+M 260/8 which uses a longer than normal (140cm) main section and two telescopic sections to take it up to 328cm high. It's an unusual one that it's never been a catalogue or stock item from K+M and is/was only available via a distributor/retailer in Norway/Sweden and not through export sales nor any normal dealer channels from K+M. I got mine via a very helpful GS member who bought them for me and shipped them to the UK. Having then got the barcode number from the packaging I was able to order more from K+M who, until then, had simply said it wasn't a product and they didn't sell it.

Since then it's got easier as K+M now sell the 26007 ( https://www.k-m.de/en/products/mic-s...7-319-55?c=178 ) which is pretty much the same thing albeit not quite as tall at 315cm. It's just the upright tubes/rods part of the stand requiring a separately purchased base but it fits the normal round bases and also comes with an adapter which lets it fit onto a range of larger/heavier square bases as used on some other K+M speaker/lighting stands. The only snag with that being that the extra outer diameter of the adapter precludes the gym weights with the 1" hole from sliding down fully onto the base. On the bright side, the extra size and weight of the other bases (iirr there are three sizes available) mean that the use of a gym weight as extra ballast isn't really necessary on those unless one plans to put quite a lot of weight and/or an array which upsets the centre of gravity on the top of the stand and go high with it.

Almost all the K+M stands I have come with a 3/8" thread. The only exceptions being a couple of the big tripod stands (21411 and 20811) designed to take the 21231 boom (and its predecessors) which all have a 1/2" thread.
Old 18 hours ago
  #53
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Yes the new 'assemble yourself' modules make for a lot more flexibility: most of those items you've mentioned are in their "new for 2019" catalog (from page 24 onwards) : https://www.k-m.de/cdn/Blaetterkalal.../index.html#24

The choice of base weights and shapes (there's a square plate of 13.5kg, for example) is particularly welcome, as one could then fine tune the whole stand system for particular uses....the biggest problem is finding a showroom where all the items are in stock, so you can do some trial assemblies of your own before buying ?

EDIT: bear in mind that some of these accessories can have fearsome price tags...eg: https://www.musoscorner.com.au/konig...ructured-black

https://www.musoscorner.com.au/konig...ructured-black

Last edited by studer58; 15 hours ago at 05:11 PM..
Old 15 hours ago
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0VU View Post
Almost all the K+M stands I have come with a 3/8" thread. The only exceptions being a couple of the big tripod stands (21411 and 20811) designed to take the 21231 boom (and its predecessors) which all have a 1/2" thread.
That's odd....my round base K&M's follow the trend of this video: all 5/8" upper (mic clip end) threads

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukxihgPRkw0

Sort of confirms that K&M make changes on the fly without necessarily updating their catalogs or making announcements ?

Such a thread-diameter-change policy isn't necessarily a minor thing, depending on one's current investment in mic clips (could require a few handfuls of adapters, plus all the attendant time-waste that entails cumulatively.....)
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