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New Sound Devices 833 Recorder
Old 11th September 2019
  #1
New Sound Devices 833 Recorder

I wonder if the 6 series is heading towards the door? It will be interesting to see what they come out with thy bridges the gap between the 833 and Scorpio.

https://www.gothamsound.com/product/...4478-204849709
Old 11th September 2019
  #2
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by LDStudios View Post
[. . .] the gap between the 833 and Scorpio. [. . .]
Love the updates SD is making!

Missing [for me] on the 833 is Dante - Mmm, bummer! Otherwise lookin' good.


Thanks for the post,

Ray H.
Old 11th September 2019
  #3
Gear Guru
Are the Scorpio preamps a lot better than the MixPre series? Curious and does this have the floating conversion?
Old 12th September 2019
  #4
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whippoorwill's Avatar
the 788/788-SSD is now officially discontinued

https://www.sounddevices.com/discontinued/
Old 12th September 2019
  #5
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tourtelot's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by whippoorwill View Post
the 788/788-SSD is now officially discontinued

https://www.sounddevices.com/discontinued/
Hoping they continue to service these machines. The 788T is the ONLY piece of gear that I would not consider selling.

D.
Old 12th September 2019
  #6
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They still service 744s, so I'd guess they'd work on your 788.
Old 12th September 2019
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tourtelot View Post
Hoping they continue to service these machines. The 788T is the ONLY piece of gear that I would not consider selling.

D.
You'd have to be hoping they maintain an inventory of displays, switches, push button mechanisms, knobs and other hardware items which can fail or become lost/broken.

I'm guessing most folks by now will have replaced the original internal HDD with SSD, so that's going to be less susceptible to that failure mode.

There must be 10's of thousands of the 700 series out there still serving loyally for film and music location duties, so it'll be a test of SD's commitment to that customer base to see how far into the future these machines will be supported ? I'm guessing that's it for any firmware updates however ?
Old 12th September 2019
  #8
Gear Guru
I'd ask support. They are responsive and figure they'll make money on replacement parts. They'd be attacking their core business not sustaining continuity,
Old 12th September 2019
  #9
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With the MP II move in mind my question is: Will there be a Scorpio II and an 833 II 12 months from now that has 32bit and is 400$ cheaper (see MP6 II) from one day to the next?
Old 12th September 2019
  #10
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by apple-q View Post
With the MP II move in mind my question is: Will there be a Scorpio II and an 833 II 12 months from now that has 32bit and is 400$ cheaper (see MP6 II) from one day to the next?
Don't own one [yet]; but my understanding is that Scorpio has 32-bit converters [and 64-bit internal processing] now.

Still, I see your point - they are moving aggressively forward, and we can hope they will learn much from the initial Scorpios going out into the field.


Ray H.

EDIT: Apologies [especially to apple-q], but I do believe the 32-bit converters in the Scorpio do not support the same wide range that is in the MixPre II 32-bit float converters. The latter delivers 142 dB range in the MixPre II vs. 120 dB in the Scorpio.
Old 12th September 2019
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RayHeath View Post
Don't own one [yet]; but my understanding is that Scorpio has 32-bit converters [and 64-bit internal processing] now.

Still, I see your point - they are moving aggressively forward, and we can hope they will learn much from the initial Scorpios going out into the field.


Ray H.
I can see the day coming, not too far down the track, for Sound Devices (and likely Zoom and others pursuing the 32 bit/hi-res mic preamp trail) that these pre's will become the new default input stage, and it will be simply uneconomic to maintain a family of lesser preamps in their product line.

Economies of scale will see the Scorpio or MixPre II type of preamp fitted as standard to all their future devices, to everyone's benefit. We're currently in an awkward transition period, between the phasing out of the old tech and the implementation of the new, at least for Sound Devices. Why persist with lesser performing input stages, when much better can be produced en masse for less cost....and raise the company's respect and profile for peerless performance ?
Old 12th September 2019
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
You'd have to be hoping they maintain an inventory of displays, switches, push button mechanisms, knobs and other hardware items which can fail or become lost/broken.

I'm guessing most folks by now will have replaced the original internal HDD with SSD, so that's going to be less susceptible to that failure mode.

There must be 10's of thousands of the 700 series out there still serving loyally for film and music location duties, so it'll be a test of SD's commitment to that customer base to see how far into the future these machines will be supported ? I'm guessing that's it for any firmware updates however ?
I can tell you from experience that they are steadfast in this regard.
Old 12th September 2019
  #13
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One thing missing from these Scorpio-class ships so far: MP3 recording. This is something that humble interview-recordists use nearly all the time, so I hope they add it.
Old 12th September 2019
  #14
Gear Guru
I wonder if the Scorpios have the same conversion as the original Mix Pres?
Old 12th September 2019
  #15
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avare's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by apple-q View Post
With the MP II move in mind my question is: Will there be a Scorpio II and an 833 II 12 months from now that has 32bit and is 400$ cheaper (see MP6 II) from one day to the next?
There are two constants in the computer world:

1. Regardless of the price you paid, it wiil be cheaper tomorrow; and
2. If you can buy its obsolete.

These units are computers with application specific interfaces.
Old 12th September 2019
  #16
Gear Guru
Hey as the owner of a devalued MixPre 3 with the II series, I do not regret the purchase, FWIW... These things punch so far above their weight/price it's ridiculous.....
They sound fantastic, are packed with features and built like bricks..... Computers become obsolete with software platforms evolving so not really the same thing.
Old 12th September 2019
  #17
Gear Addict
Apologies [especially to apple-q], but I do believe the 32-bit converters in the Scorpio do not support the same wide range that is in the MixPre II 32-bit float converters. The latter delivers 142 dB range in the MixPre II vs. 120 dB in the Scorpio.

Ray H.

Further, I understand there is no 32-bit float support while in musician's mode [a MixPre plugin]. A different recording engine is used in that mode.
Old 12th September 2019
  #18
Gear Guru
FWIW the floating point isn't intended for music and SD's designer said that the fixed point conversion range is plenty for music.....! Floating point was made to not distort extreme dynamic range. Is the fixed point conversion the same MixPre/Scorpio?
Old 12th September 2019
  #19
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S/N and Noise Floor

The Mixpre 6 II spec page shows 115 dB. S/N. It appears that noise floor and S/N are being confused.
Old 14th September 2019
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RayHeath View Post
Don't own one [yet]; but my understanding is that Scorpio has 32-bit converters [and 64-bit internal processing] now.

Still, I see your point - they are moving aggressively forward, and we can hope they will learn much from the initial Scorpios going out into the field.


Ray H.

EDIT: Apologies [especially to apple-q], but I do believe the 32-bit converters in the Scorpio do not support the same wide range that is in the MixPre II 32-bit float converters. The latter delivers 142 dB range in the MixPre II vs. 120 dB in the Scorpio.
What I meant wasn't the tech specs technology moving ahead etc. blah blah. I meant that the company I've been supporting for more than a decade moving to a slightly concerning strategy of de-valuating (does that word exist?) users' MP10T from one day to the next by 400$ from the manufacturer side without any hint from one day to the next. It left a dent in SD's reputation for me. Loyal customers patiently waited for updates through 2 years of some pretty major issues in the MP series some of them only recently fixed.
What will 883/Scorpio users have to expect? Mk. II models within the next 12 months costing hundreds or even thousands less? 32bit float on isos while mix tracks at 24bit with limiters coming? Who knows. On a film shoot 99% of all signals are A/D's or lets say pre-amplified and limited at the wireless transmitter stage and aren't full range audio anyway so 32bit for film is probably a non-criteria.

Also the 833 is only a step up from the 788 in some regards, IMO. Shame they discontinued it but good for second hand prices staying solid (unlike the MP Mk. 1)


Anyway, I'm irritated by this strategy and will watch SD from the sidelines now.

P.S.: Yes, I know my MP10 is till working.

Last edited by apple-q; 14th September 2019 at 01:53 PM..
Old 14th September 2019
  #21
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by apple-q View Post
What I meant [. . .] strategy of de-valuating [. . .] waited for updates [. . .]

What will 883/Scorpio users have to expect? Mk. II models within the next 12 months costing hundreds or even thousands less? [. . .]

Anyway, I'm irritated for sure by this strategy and will watch SD from the sidelines for sure.
Thanks apple-q for the clarification.

I've worked 20+ years as a professional software dev and strategic business consultant, and so have gotten very used to devaluation - with hundreds of thousands of dollars spent on tech during that time. The residual of those investments survives only in the tangible and intangible value streams they helped to create.

Devaluation is less a strategy than a reality of tech that competitors [SD, Zoom, etc.] are forced to accept. Firms with a much more finely targeted [smaller] viable customer base [e.g. Sonosax, Cantar, etc.] may currently feel this pressure less. But at some point [as mass market tech improves], they will be hit as well.

While I've been pretty fortunate to work mostly at the high-end where budgets are fat, modern product dev can be pretty challenging. So, I usually cut a lot of slack [with respect to schedule] to those involved in producing tech.

I don't know anything about the proprietary strategies of any of these firms [none of them are my clients]. And I am always working under NDAs when dealing with these kinds of issues. But I hope you find the comments above helpful in some way.

Apologies for misunderstanding your perspective, and misstating facts in my initial response.


Best regards,

Ray H.
Old 14th September 2019
  #22
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No need to apologize Ray and thanks for those insights.
It is for sure a first for SD I think. Their market is small and users and MFGs have been closely connected working their way through innovation in a give and take manner. I am not one of those users that buy a machine for 199$ and then complain that the pre-amps are not on par with a Millenia studio device which I think has become a trend and is pretty toxic for any MFG that try to keep raising the bar.
I am willing to pay good money for good gear but this MP II and wasn't bitten by it but the release smells a bit fishy. I hope it stays inside the prosumer segment. It doesn't break my bank but the MPII release makes you wonder about the future of the real pro devices in the product line.

Ah well, there's bigger fish to fry...like the still too short data entry knob and why can we still not manually set the TC rate of the real time clock when recording without external TC? The hard-coded 30fps doesn't work in every area of the planet.

Last edited by apple-q; 14th September 2019 at 04:21 PM..
Old 14th September 2019
  #23
Quote:
Originally Posted by LDStudios View Post
I wonder if the 6 series is heading towards the door? It will be interesting to see what they come out with thy bridges the gap between the 833 and Scorpio.

https://www.gothamsound.com/product/...4478-204849709
Looks like a good step up to more channels from my SD702; pretty good value in comparison.

When I purchased the 702 around 12 years ago, the seller suggested I get the 704 for the extra channels but (despite my lust) it was 40% extra over my budget. Still, just 2 channels have been a serious 'audio advantage'.

So, I'm interested in an 8-series: a great home-studio toolbox (esp. the preamps), and enough to go out to record small live gigs or sessions, and segue back into the studio session.
Old 16th September 2019
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ardis View Post
Hey as the owner of a devalued MixPre 3 with the II series, I do not regret the purchase, FWIW... These things punch so far above their weight/price it's ridiculous.....
.
What I meant was mainly the MP10 which got de-valued by 400$ after almost no time but not by the market but by the manufacturer which I find irritating.
Old 16th September 2019
  #25
Gear Guru
Quote:
Originally Posted by apple-q View Post
What I meant was mainly the MP10 which got de-valued by 400$ after almost no time but not by the market but by the manufacturer which I find irritating.
No argument here! I'd say they are in a tough spot to keep on a fast pace innovating and releasing. I have a 6M which is $100- less. Lucky I plan to keep it! I'm glad the product seems to be something they will support with firmware. that's the big fear when innovation stops......

It does look like Scorpio is the new high end which I hope doesn't mean more attention gets given there.......They do not talk about future plans but would be nice if they gave some idea to where these products fit moving forward.

Seems like their older products are still in demand which is comforting!.....
Old 16th September 2019
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ardis View Post

It does look like Scorpio is the new high end which I hope doesn't mean more attention gets given there.......They do not talk about future plans but would be nice if they gave some idea to where these products fit moving forward.

Seems like their older products are still in demand which is comforting!.....
Well with 32bit on MP3 and Neverclip on Zaxcom the next move seems obvious: Update to 32bit but they might have the (hardware) horsepower for that already in those boxes but no one knows.

For location recording 32bit is pretty useless as no one uses cables on set anymore and essentially your pre-amp and limiter quality is determined by the wireless gear you use not the recorder.

well, let's see what happens...
Old 16th September 2019
  #27
Gear Guru
I think the dynamic range is a good thing with the 32 bit float as described. I don't think that can be retrofitted so that may be where Scorpio gets a II Model....24 bit is plenty for location dialogue and music recording.....I'd love Paul Issacs to jump in here. He did a very cool video on all this FWIW.....

I'm surprised the 10's dropped that much, I'm using for music but wondering if the added features on the 10 Mark II are really worth 30% or so off the price.....
Old 16th September 2019
  #28
AB3
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How is it for music? Anything you can add regarding that (maybe belongs in another thread - but I have been wondering about using it for music.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by ardis View Post
. . . I'm using for music .....
Old 16th September 2019
  #29
Gear Guru
I like it a lot! The pres are very clean and the conversion seems decent. I put it on a music stand and work with the Wingman app for transport and metering. I also use the Korg controller for cues levels etc. I don't have a lot to compare it to but I'd say it probably is on the level of a decent interface. I like not recording on a computer and was delighted when they became affordable for me. guys from other threads use them as backups on orchestral gigs and have said they wouldn't be ashamed to go with them as a result.....
I do multitracking.
Old 17th September 2019
  #30
AB3
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Thank you, Ardis!
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