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New Sound Devices 833 Recorder
Old 22nd September 2019
  #61
Gear Guru
Compared to plugins all my analog equipment has resale!.... can’t look at gear that way, it’ll just piss you off....
Old 22nd September 2019 | Show parent
  #62
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by LDStudios View Post
It should pretty well be expected for digital equipment. A Sony PCM 3348 Dash machine cost $150,000 in 1981 (the equivalent of $430,000 today)... and now you can buy 'em for $500 on eBay. The 788 was Sound Devices most expensive recorder for more than a decade. You were looking at $13,000 AUD for one with a CL8. Last week I saw someone selling one with a CL8 for $3000 AUD.

Digital equipment has never been the investment. It's the work you do with it...
That's exactly what I mean. The 788 is 10 years old the MP10T in working condition (well still having issues with buffer errors) is now discontinued and replaced by the same machine with a price drop of 400$ after what 12months or less?

Imagine SD coming up with an 833 MKII in 12 months (not YEARS later) with 32bit added but the price dropped by 1000$ or more otherwise the same machine. I don't think the people who bought an 833 MKI will "hurray" this. It leaves a slightly bitter taste behind.

But anyway I think both points were made now. I'll leave it at that.
Old 22nd September 2019 | Show parent
  #63
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronFilm View Post
although I'm certain new MixPre10 Gen2 price drop will further take a hammering to the 788T secondhand price!)
ha! only for those who have never worked with a 788. *SO* much better ergonomics than the MPs (and I/O way ahead obviously). the dedicated PFL buttons alone and meta-data management. powering options, and lots of things more. The MP10 is not a replacement for the 788 (even though is might be half the price of a used 788 now), the only machine that I can call that is the Scorpio.
Old 22nd September 2019 | Show parent
  #64
Lives for gear
 

In honor of these new SD machines I'm actually scouting for a used 788 now...
Old 23rd September 2019 | Show parent
  #65
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Don S's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by philper View Post
In honor of these new SD machines I'm actually scouting for a used 788 now...
The 788's are still over 3k. But I'm impressed to far with the MP10 2! Definitely worth 1500!
Old 23rd September 2019 | Show parent
  #66
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don S View Post
The 788's are still over 3k. But I'm impressed to far with the MP10 2! Definitely worth 1500!
Trew has a 788 for $2500 right now. There's another for sale for the same price but WITH the CL8 and a bag on JW Sound.
Old 23rd September 2019 | Show parent
  #67
Quote:
Originally Posted by apple-q View Post
ha! only for those who have never worked with a 788. *SO* much better ergonomics than the MPs (and I/O way ahead obviously). the dedicated PFL buttons alone and meta-data management. powering options, and lots of things more. The MP10 is not a replacement for the 788 (even though is might be half the price of a used 788 now), the only machine that I can call that is the Scorpio.
To be fair, the Scorpio is the most closely priced comparable machine from SD's current line up when compared to the 788T's launch price.

How does the 788T have better metadata??

And the MixPre10 has internal powering + hirose, that is enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by apple-q View Post
Imagine SD coming up with an 833 MKII in 12 months (not YEARS later) with 32bit added but the price dropped by 1000$ or more otherwise the same machine. I don't think the people who bought an 833 MKI will "hurray" this. It leaves a slightly bitter taste behind.
a) is highly unlikely an 833 mk2 will come out in 12 months, it isn't a consumer grade product like their MixPre series

b) I hope I've made much more than $1K from my 833 after 12 months!
Old 23rd September 2019 | Show parent
  #68
Quote:
Originally Posted by apple-q View Post
That's exactly what I mean. The 788 is 10 years old the MP10T in working condition (well still having issues with buffer errors) is now discontinued and replaced by the same machine with a price drop of 400$ after what 12months or less?

Imagine SD coming up with an 833 MKII in 12 months (not YEARS later) with 32bit added but the price dropped by 1000$ or more otherwise the same machine. I don't think the people who bought an 833 MKI will "hurray" this. It leaves a slightly bitter taste behind.

But anyway I think both points were made now. I'll leave it at that.

I'm not sure that is particularly objective. Every past recorder has been presented with the reality of newer recorders with more features for a lower price. The 688 did it to the 788. The 633 did it to the 744. The MP II did it to the MP I. You are probably trying to measure the value of your recorder by a different metric than many people here. Depreciation is a fact of life, but that is a very different thing than the value of a recorder as a working tool. That is why the 788 is still used in abundance by a lot of people. It might be 10 years old, but it works. How exactly you would have been better off? I don't know. It doesn't matter if you purchased a new 788 ten years ago, or last year instead of your MP10T. You would still be looking at a resale value of $4000 less than you spent.

You aren't in a unique position because your recorder has lost resale value thanks to a new model. You are in a unique position because you have, comparatively, spent much less money on a recorder... and therefore have much less to lose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don S View Post
The 788's are still over 3k. But I'm impressed to far with the MP10 2! Definitely worth 1500!
I doubt many 788's are selling for over $3k with a CL8 attached and some accessories in tow. At least not recently. There have been 788's on eBay selling for as low as $1850!
Old 23rd September 2019 | Show parent
  #69
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronFilm View Post
To be fair, the Scorpio is the most closely priced comparable machine from SD's current line up when compared to the 788T's launch price.

How does the 788T have better metadata??

And the MixPre10 has internal powering + hirose, that is enough.
I think you might have never used either?

788 vs. MP10

No track to media routing, afaik.
No flexible channel linking.
No quick on board scene/take/notes/false roll editing that is reflected to all attached media.
No sound report export.
No hardware pfl switches per channel.
Fiddly HP preset switching. No favorite HP toggle.
No auto-mix.
8 AES ins
Digital Mic support
Wordclock I/O
Sample accurate linking of multiple machines.
Just to name a few from the top of my head.

The MP10 is a good machine but it is not a replacement to the 788 by many means. It easier to work on a 788 in the field. I have both, I know what I'm talking about.
Old 23rd September 2019
  #70
Gear Guru
The way I look at MixPre's is they are a way for SD to compete against Zoom and Tascam. They are a bit fiddly with all the features to control, but intuitive once you figure out the work arounds and get the outboard controllers, etc. I'm talking from a music perspective.

If I was a location guy I'd be looking at the older units. The ease of pro functionality like time code etc, can save huge amounts of time. Functionality is huge and certainly worth the extra money. That seems to be the heart of the Scorpio series. Figure the Float feature is useful but not necessarily a given to upgrade. Mix Pre's are inexpensive enough that you could buy a 3 and have it your bag for the whisper to gunshot scenario.....

I wanted a SD unit for years and to have the MixPre's at the price point that could multitrack was a blessing. Appreciate the fact they are a forward thinking company with phenomenal support....
Old 23rd September 2019 | Show parent
  #71
Gear Nut
Long time 788 CL8 CL9 owner here. I want to like the Scorpio and 833 more but
the crowded front panel, tiny screen (more problematic for Scorpio) and reliance on joystick control bothers me. And only 2 channels of AES in and no Dante on 833 is a dealbreaker for me.
I could use the 788 for the next 10 years and supply outstanding, in sync, well documented audio. It is power hungry, and the CL8 USB connection protruding from the rear surface was a fireable offence from someone in the design team.
Old 23rd September 2019 | Show parent
  #72
Lives for gear
 
Don S's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by apple-q View Post
(well still having issues with buffer errors)
I was unaware of the issues with the SD cards in these units. I am concerned after just purchasing one. Have you had one fail in the field? What brand/type of card are you using?
Old 23rd September 2019 | Show parent
  #73
Gear Guru
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ontariosound View Post
Long time 788 CL8 CL9 owner here. I want to like the Scorpio and 833 more but
the crowded front panel, tiny screen (more problematic for Scorpio) and reliance on joystick control bothers me. And only 2 channels of AES in and no Dante on 833 is a dealbreaker for me.
I could use the 788 for the next 10 years and supply outstanding, in sync, well documented audio. It is power hungry, and the CL8 USB connection protruding from the rear surface was a fireable offence from someone in the design team.
Not to be a broken record but the Wingman option may be helpful for screensize and transport FWIW. Controlling from a mobile device is really liberating...Can't help with the rest!
Old 23rd September 2019 | Show parent
  #74
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don S View Post
I was unaware of the issues with the SD cards in these units. I am concerned after just purchasing one. Have you had one fail in the field? What brand/type of card are you using?
It's not related to a brand. But the latest v4.01 update mentions a fix for it so fingers crossed it is.
Old 24th September 2019 | Show parent
  #75
Quote:
Originally Posted by ardis View Post
Not to be a broken record but the Wingman option may be helpful for screensize and transport FWIW. Controlling from a mobile device is really liberating...Can't help with the rest!

Wingman doesn't work on the 833 (or Scorpio).

Instead they've got a new app, which is SD Remote, which I reckon is great news! I heard of too many issues with Wingman, seems like they really need to start again from scratch, using everything they learned from Wingman.


Although, SD Remote won't install on my phone even though I'm running Android Oreo :-(

Plus you're required to be hardwired to the machine to use the app!! Not at all a fan of having a USB cable possibly getting in the way or damaged when operating out of a bag.

However they've got the option for a Bluetooth antenna on the 833, thus I feel very confident a wireless option for the app must be coming "soon"?
Old 24th September 2019
  #76
Gear Guru
Ooops sorry for "winging" it! FWIW, I use Wingman all the time but in a controlled environment (home studio), so don't run into the hassles you could find in the field....
Old 24th September 2019 | Show parent
  #77
Lives for gear
 
tourtelot's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by LDStudios View Post
There have been 788's on eBay selling for as low as $1850!
At that price, someone should snap it up. If I hadn't just shot my wad on DPAs, I'd be happy to put a second 788T in my gear locker. To this day, not very darned much bad to say about it. And still the key-stone in my under-8 track count scheme.

I love SD but the 788T means that I will never need to consider a newer machine for the work that I now do.

D.
Old 26th September 2019 | Show parent
  #78
Quote:
Originally Posted by tourtelot View Post
At that price, someone should snap it up. If I hadn't just shot my wad on DPAs, I'd be happy to put a second 788T in my gear locker. To this day, not very darned much bad to say about it. And still the key-stone in my under-8 track count scheme.
If you consider the potential buyers for a 788T:

1) older professionals:
They've probably already got a 788T
Maybe they might be looking for a 2nd recorder? But they're more likely to get something better, and make their existing 788T the back up.
A few might want an identical 788T as their back up, and those few who haven't already got 2x 788T would then be part of the buyer pool for a 788T on ebay

2) professionals moving on up:
They'll likely skip right over a 788T

3) newbies / amateurs / younger professionals / etc:
Zoom F8n / MixPre10 / 633 / etc are all much more likely to meet their current needs better.

So when you think about the relative supply/demand ratio there is a 788T, then it is no surprise at all for me that they sell for the prices that they do.
Old 26th September 2019 | Show parent
  #79
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tourtelot's Avatar
Yep. I get all those points but as an "older professional" ( ), to claim that any of the newer SD boxes are "better", well, that simply isn't true for me. I want a second 788T purposely as backup hardware. Can't think of one single reason that a new machine would benefit me in any way. 32 bit floating? Not even that. I peak typically at -6DBFS and never run in the red. So no, that doesn't matter to me.

I have zero interest in a new recorder otherwise (Not quite true. Looking at a second JoeCo BBR64-Dante as a backup recorder since I hate recording to a laptop SO much, but that's a whole 'nother story.)

I do see the newest SD machines targeted at an audience that will reap many benefits. Just not the under-eight-track classical music recordist.

D.
Old 26th September 2019 | Show parent
  #80
Lives for gear
 
tourtelot's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by IronFilm View Post
So when you think about the relative supply/demand ratio there is a 788T, then it is no surprise at all for me that they sell for the prices that they do.
Doesn't the fact that, after all these years, the 788T has any demand whatsoever? Must be a pretty exception recorder, right?

D.
Old 26th September 2019 | Show parent
  #81
Quote:
Originally Posted by tourtelot View Post
Doesn't the fact that, after all these years, the 788T has any demand whatsoever? Must be a pretty exception recorder, right?

D.
Yes, "some" demad


But when you think about the big picture...
Old 27th September 2019 | Show parent
  #82
Quote:
Originally Posted by IronFilm View Post
Yes, "some" demad


But when you think about the big picture...

I certainly think that the alternatives you have mentioned don’t equate to “better”. Better engineering. Better design. Or even a better job delivered to the client. The 7-series was and continues to be one of the most well conceived devices made in my opinion. The ability to switch 8 inputs between mic, line and AES. Recording simultaneously to internal SSD and card based media. Stacking multiple devices for 24 inputs.

There might be newer recorders out there, but there is a simple list of things that the 788 does so incredibly well that the newer devices you’ve mentioned can’t do. It’s a bit mind boggling in that regard... I think something may well be fundamentally lost with newer designs in he plight to appeal to a wider market of users.
Old 28th September 2019 | Show parent
  #83
Lives for gear
 
tourtelot's Avatar
I think that the "market" that we tend to be is so small that SD has decided to forget us. That's too bad but I understand. They started out as a company marketing recorders to location recordists for film and video, and I used a 788T in that regard for a long time. The fact that it smoothly morphed into an awesome recorder for classical music capture was just a bonus.

Sound Devices is still strictly marketing to location recordists for film and television. I am really happy that the folks doing dialog recording have some awesome, awesome new choices from SD. God bless!

D.
Old 28th September 2019 | Show parent
  #84
Here for the gear
 

Regarding Wingman, nice idea, but on Android drops out CONTINUOUSLY. i use it w a 664 and Samsung S4 tablet, mostly to record live choral groups. It loses the connection ALL THE TIME, like every 10 minutes. The 664 continues to record no glitching of the recording, but I totally lose the monitoring. I must shut down and restart Wingman, and all is good until it crashes again. Sound Devices support suggests trying iOS, rather than Android. Not exactly an option unless go out and buy an iOS device. I really like Sound Devices, but Wingman needs a bit of work on Android.
Old 28th September 2019 | Show parent
  #85
Gear Nut
The 788T has successfully recorded many $100 million dollar feature films and can continue to do so. The only limitation is the number of ISO tracks, and with today's scripts containing many many characters as well as the Directing philosophy of "wire anything with a pulse on set" I can see how people are happy with the 833 and Scorpio.
Old 28th September 2019 | Show parent
  #86
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tourtelot's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ontariosound View Post
The 788T has successfully recorded many $100 million dollar feature films and can continue to do so. The only limitation is the number of ISO tracks, and with today's scripts containing many many characters as well as the Directing philosophy of "wire anything with a pulse on set" I can see how people are happy with the 833 and Scorpio.
Totally true. I would have run out of tracks by now for certain if I were still doing that work.

The old man in me would prompt me to opine that is one of the reasons why movies sound so awful these days. The other is too much M&E. But it's just an opinion. But I'm happy that I got out when I did.

D.
Old 18th October 2019
  #87
My unboxing (welll... random ramble really!) of the Sound Devices 833 is now online:

https://youtu.be/EegBsjtvA7M

Old 19th October 2019 | Show parent
  #88
Quote:
Originally Posted by xybor View Post
Regarding Wingman, nice idea, but on Android drops out CONTINUOUSLY. i use it w a 664 and Samsung S4 tablet, mostly to record live choral groups. It loses the connection ALL THE TIME, like every 10 minutes. The 664 continues to record no glitching of the recording, but I totally lose the monitoring. I must shut down and restart Wingman, and all is good until it crashes again. Sound Devices support suggests trying iOS, rather than Android. Not exactly an option unless go out and buy an iOS device. I really like Sound Devices, but Wingman needs a bit of work on Android.

Yes, I've heard of a lot of problems with Wingman. And switching to iOS doesn't necessarily solve that, but at least an iPod Touch from eBay is dirt cheap to buy, or an iPad Mini. (both of which I've got for my Zoom F8n)

Hopefully this new SD-Remote app will do better than the old Wingman app did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ontariosound View Post
The 788T has successfully recorded many $100 million dollar feature films and can continue to do so. The only limitation is the number of ISO tracks, and with today's scripts containing many many characters as well as the Directing philosophy of "wire anything with a pulse on set" I can see how people are happy with the 833 and Scorpio.
Yes, many films have been recorded with the 788T and many still are being recorded with it (although I bet no $100+ Million features are being recorded in 2019 with the 788T as its primary recorder).

But also many big budget films were recorded with a Nagra! However people need to move with the times at upgrade to better options as time goes by.
Old 19th October 2019
  #89
Gear Guru
He may be talking about tape with the Nagra and those were famous for sound....
Old 28th October 2019 | Show parent
  #90
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronFilm View Post
If you consider the potential buyers for a 788T:

1) older professionals:
They've probably already got a 788T
Maybe they might be looking for a 2nd recorder? But they're more likely to get something better, and make their existing 788T the back up.
A few might want an identical 788T as their back up, and those few who haven't already got 2x 788T would then be part of the buyer pool for a 788T on ebay

2) professionals moving on up:
They'll likely skip right over a 788T

3) newbies / amateurs / younger professionals / etc:
Zoom F8n / MixPre10 / 633 / etc are all much more likely to meet their current needs better.

So when you think about the relative supply/demand ratio there is a 788T, then it is no surprise at all for me that they sell for the prices that they do.
So *now* we have a real successor to the 788T: The 888. Yet still less AES capabilities but 8 real mic ins. But they are going to have a hard time competing with the Zaxcom Nova at that price tag. At least in the production sound segment where no one needs mic ins anymore since everyone uses the pres in the wireless transmitters.
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