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New Sound Devices 833 Recorder
Old 18th September 2019
  #31
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Old 20th September 2019
  #32
Quote:
Originally Posted by LDStudios View Post
I wonder if the 6 series is heading towards the door? It will be interesting to see what they come out with thy bridges the gap between the 833 and Scorpio.

https://www.gothamsound.com/product/...4478-204849709

Yes, the 6 series is being phased out. Just like Scorpio was "688 mk2" then the 833 is "633 mk2"

I didn't want to buy the 633, as although it is a greater mixer/recorder, I felt like it was also a little too flawed with a few things not quite right, and I had a strong hunch a replacement would be coming soon!

This 833 fixes almost everything about the 633, thus when I read about the news leaking (before it even got announced!) at 4am (an early call time on my doco shoot!) I almost immediately put my order in at 5am! (then rang up the store at 7:55am just before they opened to double check they had got my email! ha)
Old 20th September 2019 | Show parent
  #33
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
You'd have to be hoping they maintain an inventory of displays, switches, push button mechanisms, knobs and other hardware items which can fail or become lost/broken.

I'm guessing most folks by now will have replaced the original internal HDD with SSD, so that's going to be less susceptible to that failure mode.

There must be 10's of thousands of the 700 series out there still serving loyally for film and music location duties, so it'll be a test of SD's commitment to that customer base to see how far into the future these machines will be supported ? I'm guessing that's it for any firmware updates however ?
The 788T is well over a decade old, the fact Sound Devices still supports it today shows AMAZING support!!

Does Zaxcom/Aaton/Sonosax/Nagra/Zoom/Tascam still support anything which is over a decade old? I'd guess few if any of them do.

I'm sure Zoom/Tascam don't.

Does Zaxcom still support the Deva 5.8? I know Aaton cut off support for the Cantar X2
Old 20th September 2019 | Show parent
  #34
Quote:
Originally Posted by apple-q View Post
With the MP II move in mind my question is: Will there be a Scorpio II and an 833 II 12 months from now that has 32bit and is 400$ cheaper (see MP6 II) from one day to the next?

The MixPre series was:

a) a prosumer orientated product, which naturally has a much much higher refresh rate than their high end professional gear (I expect Scorpio will be around 6yrs until it is replaced, give or take a couple of years either way).

b) the MixPre series was a brand new market for them, that they had never entered before, thus no surprise if they feel like perhaps they didn't quite judge it "right" at their first go and wanted to refresh their line up a couple of years later. However, Scorpio/833 is squarely in the middle of their bread and butter customer base, both is it more important they get it right from day one, but they're also more likely to get it right initially as they know these customers inside and out. (although yes... there will still be complaints! Like the lack of MP3 is a big one at the moment. And for myself personally I hope they hurry up with Timecode Systems Ltd integration, and bring out a "SL4" soon to compete more squarely with the Zaxcom Nova configuration)
Old 20th September 2019 | Show parent
  #35
Quote:
Originally Posted by apple-q View Post
Also the 833 is only a step up from the 788 in some regards, IMO. Shame they discontinued it but good for second hand prices staying solid (unlike the MP Mk. 1)
For the audience the 833 is intended for (people in the professional film/tv world, operating from the bag with occasional mini cart days perhaps) then the 833 is *many* light years ahead.

I have no desire to buy a 788T, but I'm lusting over an 833

Quote:
Originally Posted by philper View Post
One thing missing from these Scorpio-class ships so far: MP3 recording. This is something that humble interview-recordists use nearly all the time, so I hope they add it.
No, not all the time.

Just a (vocal!) minority of them need it.

I've done countless interviews, and never once been requested MP3s.


However I understand it is important for some other people, so I hope Sound Devices adds it soon.
Old 20th September 2019 | Show parent
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IronFilm View Post
For the audience the 833 is intended for (people in the professional film/tv world, operating from the bag with occasional mini cart days perhaps) then the 833 is *many* light years ahead.

I have no desire to buy a 788T, but I'm lusting over an 833



No, not all the time.

Just a (vocal!) minority of them need it.

I've done countless interviews, and never once been requested MP3s.


However I understand it is important for some other people, so I hope Sound Devices adds it soon.
Yes, all the time. Not your clients maybe, but many do, and among recordists who record a lot of interviews, esp for either networks or for long form projects, mp3s are not only required but assumed to be part of the recordists' deliverables, sometimes after every interview thru a day.
Old 20th September 2019 | Show parent
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IronFilm View Post
For the audience the 833 is intended for (people in the professional film/tv world, operating from the bag with occasional mini cart days perhaps) then the 833 is *many* light years ahead.

I have no desire to buy a 788T, but I'm lusting over an 833


Well the 788 has 8 balanced mic/line ins with phantom power. 6 line outs, 4ch AES out and 8CH of AES in. WC I/O on BNC. The 833 has 6 plus 2 unbalanced mini jack with no phantom.

So in the most basic audio way the 833 is a step down coming from a 788.

Not sure how the 833 is "lightyears" ahead as an alternative for 788 users? It's aimed at 633 users if you ask me.

But all that set aside, my main point was the MFG devaluating a more or less brand new MP10 MK.1 by a couple of hundred $$ from their side literally at the press of a button worries me and is a first for SD.

I wonder what people that bought a Scorpio for 10k€ this summer said if there was a Scorpio II after 1 year of bug fixing that is a couple of thousand $$ cheaper. And I hope for them that it's not going to happen and SD doesn't do that same thing in the pro segment.

Last edited by apple-q; 20th September 2019 at 09:00 AM..
Old 20th September 2019 | Show parent
  #38
Quote:
Originally Posted by apple-q View Post
Well the 788 has 8 balanced mic ins with phantom power. 6 line outs, 4ch AES out and 8CH of AES in. WC I/O on BNC.

So in the most basic audio way the 833 is a step down coming from a 788.

Not sure how the 833 is "lightyears" ahead as an alternative for 788 users? It's aimed at 633 users if you ask me.

But all that set aside, my main point was the MFG devaluating a more or less brand new MP10 MK.1 by a couple of hundred $$ from their side worries me and is a first for SD.

I wonder what people that bought a Scorpio for 10k€ this summer said if there was a Scorpio II after 1 year of bug fixing that is a couple of thousand $$ cheaper. And hope for them that it's not going to happen.
Yes it is aimed at 633 users first of all

But the 6 series (and now the Scorpio based recorders) are all replacing the standalone 7 series

The 833 has wordclock and AES I/O (just not as many!)

If you're maxing out the 788T to the extent you need every last audio I/O then the 833 isn't for you, you should be buying a 688/Scorpio

Rather than looking at a massively cheaper recorder and complaining it doesn't cross every last t and dot every last i for you.

That was $6K back in the day (the 833 is HALF that!), you can easily find a 688 secondhand for less. or buy it brand new for that!

And a Scorpio for 50% more.

But I am ignoring for a moment here just how old the 788T is.... when we adjust for inflation we get around $7.5K ish? Which shows how in pricing terms the 788T at launch isn't really that far off from a Scorpio
Old 20th September 2019 | Show parent
  #39
Quote:
Originally Posted by philper View Post
Yes, all the time. Not your clients maybe, but many do, and among recordists who record a lot of interviews, esp for either networks or for long form projects, mp3s are not only required but assumed to be part of the recordists' deliverables, sometimes after every interview thru a day.
You both say "all the time" and agree with me that there are folks who don't even need it thus it can't be *all* the time.

It is not needed "all the time" by sound recordists in general.

Thus for those small minority who do need it on a regular basis, if that is just an occasional regular basis I say buy the 833 and either convert to MP3 on the spot *or* you use your back up recorder just for that gig instead.

But if you need it very regular, every week, then just stick with what you have while you wait for the 833 firmware update to arrive.
Old 20th September 2019 | Show parent
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IronFilm View Post
Yes it is aimed at 633 users first of all

But the 6 series (and now the Scorpio based recorders) are all replacing the standalone 7 series

The 833 has wordclock and AES I/O (just not as many!)

If you're maxing out the 788T to the extent you need every last audio I/O then the 833 isn't for you, you should be buying a 688/Scorpio
I am not complaining about the 833. I assume that someone who bought the 788 needs 8 ins, most people who do this as a business don't buy stuff they don't need. The claim was that the 833 "is lightyears ahead" which is what I was referring to.

Again none of that was my main point: I don't mind better products for less. But the customer / MFG relationship is a partnership of give and take I find it irritating that they devaluate the very product we've been patiently using with the bugs and flaws (high pitch noise at high sample rate, buffer errors etc.) for a year have now effectively lost 400$ of re-sale value after only a couple of months in our bags not because the market decided but because THEY decided to lower the price drastically. (I guess to make people who had an F6 per-ordered cancel that, which I think worked in many cases)

Last edited by apple-q; 20th September 2019 at 10:10 AM..
Old 20th September 2019
  #41
Longtime 744t user here. What I haven't been able to figure out from an initial perusal of the 833 manual is whether I can mix together three stereo-linked pairs for a live feed using only the three large fader knobs. Anyone know for certain?

David L. Rick
Seventh String Recording
Old 20th September 2019 | Show parent
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IronFilm View Post
You both say "all the time" and agree with me that there are folks who don't even need it thus it can't be *all* the time.

It is not needed "all the time" by sound recordists in general.

Thus for those small minority who do need it on a regular basis, if that is just an occasional regular basis I say buy the 833 and either convert to MP3 on the spot *or* you use your back up recorder just for that gig instead.

But if you need it very regular, every week, then just stick with what you have while you wait for the 833 firmware update to arrive.
Folks who do dialog recording in a full service manner need to have the ability to deliver mp3s. It may not happen on every gig, but it also gets sprung on us at the last minute. Not including this feature in the 833, after offering it in most of its predecessors is an oversight since I will wager than many recordists assume that the 833 includes this feature from the get go. I'm sure SD is working on this as we speak. Your all vs never argument is beside the point, really--enough SD users use this feature all the time that they need to get it going quick.
Old 20th September 2019 | Show parent
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Rick View Post
Longtime 744t user here. What I haven't been able to figure out from an initial perusal of the 833 manual is whether I can mix together three stereo-linked pairs for a live feed using only the three large fader knobs. Anyone know for certain?

David L. Rick
Seventh String Recording
That would be cool.
Old 20th September 2019
  #44
Gear Guru
What pisses me off is it makes my Mixpre look more like a toy LOL!..... I'm a superficial bastard and those knobs...... Man that's a great looking unit!....

Seriously, the SD design dept has done an amazing job making really cool looking units. I wish my FMR stuff looked so sexy!.......
Old 21st September 2019 | Show parent
  #45
AB3
Lives for gear
Why would the MixpreII have 32 bit float - and not the scorpios? Shouldn't the top of the line have the 32 bit float? Will the competition do this?
Old 21st September 2019 | Show parent
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AB3;142197/ 920
Why would the MixpreII have 32 bit float - and not the scorpios? Shouldn't the top of the line have the 32 bit float? Will the competition do this?
See my first post in the thread.
Old 21st September 2019 | Show parent
  #47
AB3
Lives for gear
So, the Scorpio II seems like a good prediction. There is probably no way current owners could get a mod for the 32 bit? It seems like scorpio buyers should beware - and not complaint when the II comes out. The writing is on the wall (or board?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by avare View Post
See my first post in the thread.
Old 21st September 2019
  #48
Gear Guru
No 32 bit float is a hardware mod.
Old 21st September 2019 | Show parent
  #49
AB3
Lives for gear
I understand 32 bit is a hardware mod (and probably software as well). But does that mean it cannot be done by sending to the manufacturer, etc?
This is something Sound Devices should consider.
Old 22nd September 2019 | Show parent
  #50
Quote:
Originally Posted by apple-q View Post
I am not complaining about the 833. I assume that someone who bought the 788 needs 8 ins, most people who do this as a business don't busy stuff they don't need. The claim was that the 833 "is lightyears ahead" which is what I was referring to.
The 833 has 8 inputs as well.

And most people don't buy a recorder to use it at its *max* capabilities 100% of the time.

Lots of people for instance are running with the 633 only recording 3 or 4 channels the majority of the time, or using a 688 but less than even 8 channels.

I know of a guy who recently switched from Cantar X2 (8 channels) to Scorpio (32 channels) even though he almost never needed more than the X2's 8 channels, because he wasn't just buying Scorpio for the channel count.


Quote:
Originally Posted by apple-q View Post
Again none of that was my main point: I don't mind better products for less. But the customer / MFG relationship is a partnership of give and take I find it irritating that they devaluate the very product we've been patiently using with the bugs and flaws (high pitch noise at high sample rate, buffer errors etc.) for a year have now effectively lost 400$ of re-sale value after only a couple of months in our bags not because the market decided but because THEY decided to lower the price drastically. (I guess to make people who had an F6 per-ordered cancel that, which I think worked in many cases)
You *say* "I don't mind better products for less. " yet in the next breath you're attacking Sound Devices for selling better and cheaper products??

And if you can't make back $400 over a year of owning your recorder, then you're running your business wrong.
Old 22nd September 2019 | Show parent
  #51
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The 833 has 6 mic ins with P48. Read again. It‘s not ‚lightyears ahead‘.

The rest you say doesn’t contradict what I wrote. Wether or not I made 400 or 4000$ has nothing to do with what I meant.
Old 22nd September 2019 | Show parent
  #52
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Rick View Post
Longtime 744t user here. What I haven't been able to figure out from an initial perusal of the 833 manual is whether I can mix together three stereo-linked pairs for a live feed using only the three large fader knobs. Anyone know for certain?

David L. Rick
Seventh String Recording
Yes you can, via channel grouping. From page 13 of the manual:

3. CHANNEL GROUPING Selects grouping of faders, record arming,
and mutes across channels. The lowest channel number in the group
controls the other channels grouped. Two channel groups are possible, channels grouped can only be assigned to one group.
a. Group 1 [1-8]
b. Group 2 [1-8]
c. Group 3 [1-8]
d. Group 4 [1-8]
Old 22nd September 2019 | Show parent
  #53
AB3
Lives for gear
I am surprised they did not make it 8 channels with P48.



Quote:
Originally Posted by apple-q View Post
The 833 has 6 mic ins with P48. Read again. It‘s not ‚lightyears ahead‘.

The rest you say doesn’t contradict what I wrote. Wether or not I made 400 or 4000$ has nothing to do with what I meant.
Old 22nd September 2019 | Show parent
  #54
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avare's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronFilm View Post
And if you can't make back $400 over a year of owning your recorder, then you're running your business wrong.
That is something amusing. As a business I buy high depreciation equipment for 3 years and plan mu finances accordingly. I do not care what happens 3 months after a purchase. All i need is the depreciated book value

How many complaining about dropped prices even understand the last sentence?
Old 22nd September 2019 | Show parent
  #55
Quote:
Originally Posted by apple-q View Post
The 833 has 6 mic ins with P48. Read again. It‘s not ‚lightyears ahead‘.
I didn't say it had 8x P48, I said it 8 inputs (or heck, 9, if you count comms).

And it is a little narrow focused to just be measuring it by that measure, the 833 has a tonne of features the 788T doesn't have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by apple-q View Post
The rest you say doesn’t contradict what I wrote. Wether or not I made 400 or 4000$ has nothing to do with what I meant.

It doesn't have nothing to do with it, my point is a few hundred dollars is a fairly trivial amount when running a business across the lifespan of a recorder, quite different to many thousands of dollars.
Old 22nd September 2019 | Show parent
  #56
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by whippoorwill View Post
the 788/788-SSD is now officially discontinued

https://www.sounddevices.com/discontinued/
Well its been Eol for years. No firmware updates for years. And they dropped that iPad remote support like a hot potato, so the one i bought of that is now dead
Old 22nd September 2019 | Show parent
  #57
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronFilm View Post
Yes you can, via channel grouping. From page 13 of the manual:

3. CHANNEL GROUPING Selects grouping of faders, record arming,
and mutes across channels. The lowest channel number in the group
controls the other channels grouped. Two channel groups are possible, channels grouped can only be assigned to one group.
a. Group 1 [1-8]
b. Group 2 [1-8]
c. Group 3 [1-8]
d. Group 4 [1-8]
Well that looks better than the 788T

I want 1-4, 5-6 and 7-8 (for soundfield plus 2 stereo pairs). Cant have it.
Old 22nd September 2019 | Show parent
  #58
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonhoneyball View Post
Well that looks better than the 788T

I want 1-4, 5-6 and 7-8 (for soundfield plus 2 stereo pairs). Cant have it.
Why not?

Have Group 1: 1-4
Group 2: 5 & 6
Group 3: 7 & 8
Old 22nd September 2019 | Show parent
  #59
Quote:
Originally Posted by IronFilm View Post
I didn't say it had 8x P48, I said it 8 inputs (or heck, 9, if you count comms).

And it is a little narrow focused to just be measuring it by that measure, the 833 has a tonne of features the 788T doesn't have.

It doesn't have nothing to do with it, my point is a few hundred dollars is a fairly trivial amount when running a business across the lifespan of a recorder, quite different to many thousands of dollars.

It should pretty well be expected for digital equipment. A Sony PCM 3348 Dash machine cost $150,000 in 1981 (the equivalent of $430,000 today)... and now you can buy 'em for $500 on eBay. The 788 was Sound Devices most expensive recorder for more than a decade. You were looking at $13,000 AUD for one with a CL8. Last week I saw someone selling one with a CL8 for $3000 AUD.

Digital equipment has never been the investment. It's the work you do with it...
Old 22nd September 2019 | Show parent
  #60
Quote:
Originally Posted by LDStudios View Post
The 788 was Sound Devices most expensive recorder for more than a decade. You were looking at $13,000 AUD for one with a CL8. Last week I saw someone selling one with a CL8 for $3000 AUD.

Digital equipment has never been the investment. It's the work you do with it...
And the only reason the 788T still sells for that much secondhand is because too many people are allergic to the Zoom F8n, and look down on the MixPre series. (although I'm certain new MixPre10 Gen2 price drop will further take a hammering to the 788T secondhand price!)
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