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Small room small mics for piano
Old 8th October 2019
  #91
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Remoteness's Avatar
The drawing is a great starting point. And, like I said earlier, nothing is set in stone. Modify the setup until it sounds best.

The group of pictures of the five week jazz date should that we didn't stop adjusting things until it was right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett View Post
I would take issue with "centre of the room" as that point can get quite honky in many rooms.

I would normally suggest "room thirds".

But I *do* agree with your drawing as the piano is off-centre.
Old 8th October 2019
  #92
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Thanks. Jim!

Yes, the graphic EQ was for indeed the monitors.

The monitors were necessary because the bandleader wanted to be free of headphones and not be thinking of the recording session. Each day once we were setup. We just hit record and away they went without stopping the recorders.

The great isolation was achieved by the placement of the instruments and placement of all the transducers. The gobos where there to breakup things and help in the isolation. Keep in mind, the Jon Batiste live performance capture (post number 52) had no gobos or blankets and I achieved excellent isolation on that super small stage. My Virtual Gobo technique was in play big-time.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jimjazzdad View Post
Nice setup. Got to love those stack-able gobos. I am guessing the graphic EQ was for the monitors...and the monitors were necessary because of the great isolation achieved by all the gobos? Kind of a vicious cycle, but whatever gets the job done!
Old 9th October 2019
  #93
Gear Maniac
Davis!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Remoteness View Post
This recording project was a totally live environment with no headphones or isolation booths is a great way to capture (jazz) music. The musicians have a comfort zone that's familiar and feels right when they're performing.

The musicians were,*Franklin Kiermyer with Davis Whitfield on piano, Lawrence Clark on sax, and Otto Gardner on upright bass.
Our Budget24 Mini recording rig was used for this five week recording session. As you will see in the images below, the positions of the instruments stayed the same, but I kept modifying the placement of my gobos and added/changed some mics out. Since we had band monitors and no headphones, it was mission critical to get the best isolation while minimizing the "bad leakage."
Believe it or not, I have a Neumann TLM102 on the snare and of course, a pair of Beyer M160s on the overheads plus a Neumann TLM103 over the drummer's shoulder since the Drummer's Right Knee technique wasn't applicable for this setup.

You did not hear, "take one," "take two..." on this recording date. The band played what they wanted, when they wanted and the recorders were continuously rolling, capturing the situation of the moment!

As we progressed, I'm really started to dig the new setup!*We got some great isolation without any sound booth action and live monitor wedges for the musicians, baby! It's just how it should be done!*The additional 15" Plexiglas gobos did the trick. Raising the band monitors was also an improvement.

Any questions? What say you?
I wanna check it out that recording. Man I haven’t seen Davis for a while, we’re at school together, man what a great player. His brother is also killing drummer, mark jr.

And thanks for your drawing, photos and everything.
It is really clear to me, can’t wait to try!

Ready to but m160 first, but now I’m able to afford only one. Will experiment with setup you posted Steve, with one overhead and few others.. will get back here as soon as I do some sessions in my room.

Thanks everyone who’s been helping me, threw some wisdoms, thoughts. Really appreciate for your time and effort. Hope this thread keep grow like this!!

All the best,
Q
Old 9th October 2019
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Remoteness View Post
Yeah, it's difficult to see. I always thought a baby grand's dimensions are between just under five feet long to just under 6 feet long with a width of five feet.

In any event, a B would have definitely been too big for your room.

As you can see in that first Jon Batiste image I posted, the drums were closer to Jon's piano than they appear in you image. I had no physical baffles, blankets or gobos, yet we got a killer isolation and that "good leakage" you would want to have in a closeup environment like that. It's all about my, "Virtual Gobo" technique. It works most of the time.

I'd love for you to listen to the raw tracks from that gig, with no EQ, gates, or compressors, just panning and volume levels. It's an excellent starting point for a mix because I took care of all the issues during the origination.

In time I'm sure you will grow and eventually find the right space for your projects. In the meantime, don't let that small room stop you from getting a big sound!

What say you?
Two things.

First, would love to have you here to share ideas and techniques. PM me and you are more than welcome.

Secondly, "Virtual Gobo" technique? I'm intrigued. I've tried so may different positions and techniques. Some work better than others. I am aware that preventing leakage is a non-starter. Controlling and using leakage is where its at. Which is why all of these suggestions are worth a try.
Old 9th October 2019
  #95
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Quote:
I don't know what you are referring to, since I don't hear any distortion at 1:27.
In that case I'm guessing that the download or playback from GS is the problem. I will go back and check again. Maybe it was just an anomaly at the moment but I did listen back a few times to be sure.

And, since you say the vinyl sounded great I'm leaning more towards what I heard being a problem in the lossy download.

I would love to have you come check things out and share the wealth of information. Lots of people have come here for all sorts of reasons. Onaje Allen Gumbs = great pianist from the Woody Shaw band. Johnny O'Neal - who needs no introduction if you live in NYC. John Thomas - great pianist currently studying at Julliard. The list goes on. Feel free to PM me and I'll give you the location. Time will be whenever possible.
Old 9th October 2019
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Remoteness View Post
This recording project was a totally live environment with no headphones or isolation booths is a great way to capture (jazz) music. The musicians have a comfort zone that's familiar and feels right when they're performing.
Lovely set up. Love the nice gobos. Also l one the brick wall behind the drums and the ribbon OHs. I've been seriously considering switching to ribbon OHs for drums.

So many thoughtful placement in these photos. Thanks for posting. Trust me, I'm looking. Didn't see any audio files. Will go back and look. If not there, is there a possibility to hear some?

One thing that isn't clear is for instance, the microphone that appears to be over the bass players head give or take. Is this a room mic or is it meant to pic up mostly bass?

Quote:
we didn't stop adjusting things until it was right
I noticed things were moving around a bit.


And, the setup seems to change. Bass player seems more enclosed in some pics. I realize this is a remote recording and this is probably a rehearsal room mostly. Wedge monitors are a giveaway.

Also, I think I see a room mic a bit of a ways in front of the drums. I have had no success with room mics (and I don't have that many mics so I have been unable to experiment). But there seems to be a strong proclivity for and many supporters of room mics even in "live" style recording so now I think I have to try again. Because of the size of my room, every time I try this I get at least one source with phasing issues. Maybe I need a different mic or a different location. Hard to say considering how infrequently I've tried it due to bad results.
Old 9th October 2019
  #97
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Doing a guitar trio today. Will try some room mics. But after seeing other peoples set ups the smallness of my room is closing in on me.
Old 9th October 2019
  #98
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Remoteness's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy4Jazz View Post
In that case I'm guessing that the download or playback from GS is the problem. I will go back and check again. Maybe it was just an anomaly at the moment but I did listen back a few times to be sure.

And, since you say the vinyl sounded great I'm leaning more towards what I heard being a problem in the lossy download.

I would love to have you come check things out and share the wealth of information. Lots of people have come here for all sorts of reasons. Onaje Allen Gumbs = great pianist from the Woody Shaw band. Johnny O'Neal - who needs no introduction if you live in NYC. John Thomas - great pianist currently studying at Julliard. The list goes on. Feel free to PM me and I'll give you the location. Time will be whenever possible.
I'm sure is was indeed the situation of the moment. Yet, things happen and you never know. That's what's so frustrating about digital sound. It's still all 0s and 1s and they can get jammed up. I'm just about to sign off on a double vinyl album*that had a few digital ticks that I noticed and are finally removed. Did I get all of them? That's the frustrating part of it for me.

FYI, I worked with Onaje back in 2003. Tremendous*keyboardist, arranger and composer for sure.

The album we did together which I coordinated, recorded, engineered and mixed is titled, 'Onaje Allan Gumbs ‎– Return To Form -Live at the Blue Note' which was on Half Note Records.

The musicians on that recording were, of course,*Onaje Allan Gumbs on acoustic piano;*Payton Crossley on Drums;*my buddy, Gary Fritz on Percussion, Marcus McLaurine on Upright Bass; and*Rene McLean on Tenor Sax, Soprano Sax and Trombone.

I still would like to hear your work. Do you have anything online that I can check out?
Old 9th October 2019
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy4Jazz View Post
Lovely set up. Love the nice gobos. Also l one the brick wall behind the drums and the ribbon OHs. I've been seriously considering switching to ribbon OHs for drums.

So many thoughtful placement in these photos. Thanks for posting. Trust me, I'm looking. Didn't see any audio files. Will go back and look. If not there, is there a possibility to hear some?

One thing that isn't clear is for instance, the microphone that appears to be over the bass players head give or take. Is this a room mic or is it meant to pic up mostly bass?

I noticed things were moving around a bit.


And, the setup seems to change. Bass player seems more enclosed in some pics. I realize this is a remote recording and this is probably a rehearsal room mostly. Wedge monitors are a giveaway.

Also, I think I see a room mic a bit of a ways in front of the drums. I have had no success with room mics (and I don't have that many mics so I have been unable to experiment). But there seems to be a strong proclivity for and many supporters of room mics even in "live" style recording so now I think I have to try again. Because of the size of my room, every time I try this I get at least one source with phasing issues. Maybe I need a different mic or a different location. Hard to say considering how infrequently I've tried it due to bad results.
Yes, those gobos are awesome.*

I didn't post any audio files. It was a five week session, that I came in at the start of the week making sure "everything" was everything, then their guy stayed for the duration of the week playing "engineer."**

I was trying different things, the mic near Otto's head was there to originally capture his upright, but the drummer plays incredibly loud that there was no way this mic placement was going to work.*And, the main reason why the setup kept changing. The final images show exactly where we ended up, and I was quite pleased with how everything sounded when I was there.

It was to be sure a remote recording and a small rehearsal and performance space in Brooklyn. But, I brought in the monitors.*

Yes, that is as expected, a room mic about six feet in front of the drum kit. For me, it's all about the room mics. Because of how I strategically placed the gobos, I got a killer drum room sound. When you solo that mic all you get it drums. IMHO, you don't need a lot of mics or high quality mics to get a great sound. For me, it's more about the placement than anything else. All you need is one mic to be able to*experiment. Every project I was part of the origination (capture) had at least two or three room mics. There is other way to do it in my book. They are usually the principle reverb or room tone in my mixes. I go big on room mics and small on digital reverb when mixing my projects. That's a big reason why many folks say, my mixes sound like they are right in your face.

IMO, your potential*phasing issues has more to do about your mic and instrument placement than the size of the room. Remember, it's not always about the*microphone or location. Proper placement of all the transducers is an important starting point.*
Old 14th October 2019
  #100
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Quote:
I go big on room mics and small on digital reverb
I'm going to give this a try. On a recent recording I used the UAD Ocean Way plugin on the drums. It gave the drums a sort of "room" sound of sorts that I kind of liked. I suspect that something along these lines can be achieved with a room mic. At the very least it is worthy trying to see what happens.

I am curious though, what kind of mic does this sort of thing best in your experience?
Old 9th November 2019
  #101
Gear Maniac
short piano only clip

okay.. it's been a while. today I had little spare time to come to studio, and few mic clamp has arrived from states, so I did little experiment by myself.

2 cardioid (cm4), 2 ribbon(LRM-2) were used.

2 cardioid were mic'd middle of the sound board, one towards music stand, one towards low string. pretty closed to strings.

2 ribbons were attached curve side of piano by clamp, 15~20cm spaced.

Preamps are Apollo stock preamps.


I was able to get decent level (peak hitting -6 in DAW, usually -12 between -6).

and before I record myself, I went to drum set and played tom toms to see how much mics picking drum(This made me think, I have to find better way to mic and maybe turn piano little bit. I put each instrument as Steve suggested this time but not exactly, but I did my best. I didn't put Gobo infront of piano this time since I was doing little experiment by myself and running out of time.. so).

tom tom' were hitting -24 between -12 in daw. I'll experiment more next time with Gobo if I have a time...

anyway, I set up few sessions in late December, Guitar Trio, and Guitar + piano trio, Piano trio + Vocal. all of band members are students from university that I teach. pretty excited..

Ah, one more thing. I got Beyer M160 Steve! just one this time, but I'm thinking order one more pretty soon.. problem is I don't have enough time to call a drummer and set up a experiment session, unfortunately.. Nov and Decembers are pretty full.. but hopefully I don't lose my eager and energy to record live band
Attached Files

piano cardi close.mp3 (3.73 MB, 469 views)

piano ribbon close.mp3 (3.73 MB, 465 views)

piano together.mp3 (3.73 MB, 471 views)

Old 9th November 2019
  #102
Personally I liked the piano together best, as it sounded the most natural and full toned. Next was the ribbons close.
Old 9th November 2019
  #103
Gear Maniac
Yeap..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lurcher_lover View Post
Personally I liked the piano together best, as it sounded the most natural and full toned. Next was the ribbons close.
Me too! I’m trying to get little more bottom end from ribbon mic. I gotta hear this with full band context tho, which are gonna happen late december.. so sad.
Anyway will keep updating! If any advice, wisdoms you have, please share here!
Old 10th November 2019
  #104
Gear Maniac
piano microphone here

Quote:
Originally Posted by Remoteness View Post
I don't know about you folks, but when I record acoustic grand piano, I either remove the lid or use the short stick when in a small (jazz club) environment.

Sometimes, you have to use the piano with a closed lid. When I'm in that situation, I like to either make a cradle out of Gaffer's tape and place a pair of C414TLIIs or Milab DC196s in there.

Here's an image of the setup for Jon Batiste's residency at the Village Vanguard I did last winter. This week long capture produced to albums, 'Anatomy of Angels' which came out August 2nd of this year and 'Chronology Of A Dream' which will be out November 1st. In this case I used two Milab DC196s with a couple of Ultra Clamps.

Believe it or not, the isolation between the piano and drums was amazing. It was as if there were gobos and blankets around everything. We had nine to ten people on stage and the only leakage I captured was good leakage.

Jon Batiste's 'Anatomy of Angels' | All Of It | WNYC

Jon Batiste Shares the First Taste of 'Anatomy of Angels: Live at the Village Vanguard'

Hello Steve!

so I was reading your post here again today, and it got me thinking,

where did you place Mlab DC196s, and which pattern were used?

I tried find a placement from your photos, but it's hard to tell. I guess it was near curved side of the piano?

I wish I could afford yamahiko, and milabs but not at the moment! but I'm thinking add one more m160 for sure near future.
Have only one m160 now, and going to try mono overhead for next experiment, but I guess it's better to have pair of them.

anyway, let me know when you're not busy!

Thanks
Old 10th November 2019
  #105
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I attached two images showing rough ideas of where I placed my two Milab DC196s. I used two Ultra Clamps which were attached to the piano. The DC196s were set to cardioid.

The first picture is of a Jeff "Tain" Watts session I did which shows two cardioid Milab DC96Bs in a similar placement as my Jon Batiste date. The only difference is that Jon's mics were positioned downwards.

The piano mic placement illustration (I found online) shows a rough idea of where I placed my Milabs during the Jon Batiste Village Vanguard residency.

Keep this in mind, you may not have the budget to afford Yamahikos or Milabs but you do have your ears which IMHO are much more important to have than the "perfect" equipment.


Quote:
Originally Posted by shimoyjk View Post
Hello Steve!

so I was reading your post here again today, and it got me thinking,

where did you place Mlab DC196s, and which pattern were used?

I tried find a placement from your photos, but it's hard to tell. I guess it was near curved side of the piano?

I wish I could afford yamahiko, and milabs but not at the moment! but I'm thinking add one more m160 for sure near future.
Have only one m160 now, and going to try mono overhead for next experiment, but I guess it's better to have pair of them.

anyway, let me know when you're not busy!

Thanks
Attached Thumbnails
Small room small mics for piano-fb_img_1573385633696.jpg   Small room small mics for piano-capture-_2019-11-10-06-40-16-01.jpg  
Old 10th November 2019
  #106
Gear Maniac
Thank you Steve!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Remoteness View Post
I attached two images showing rough ideas of where I placed my two Milab DC196s. I used two Ultra Clamps which were attached to the piano. The DC196s were set to cardioid.

The first picture is of a Jeff "Tain" Watts session I did which shows two cardioid Milab DC96Bs in a similar placement as my Jon Batiste date. The only difference is that Jon's mics were positioned downwards.

The piano mic placement illustration (I found online) shows a rough idea of where I placed my Milabs during the Jon Batiste Village Vanguard residency.

Keep this in mind, you may not have the budget to afford Yamahikos or Milabs but you do have your ears which IMHO are much more important to have than the "perfect" equipment.
That was quick , i know it’s early in the morning there...

I’ll try to imitate mic positions, and turn the piano to minimize bleed.

Thanks again! Hope I can make it better!
Old 10th November 2019
  #107
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Remoteness's Avatar
Yep, it is indeed quite early in the morning here on the east coast of US of A.

Confidence is high that this will work for you, especially if you use your ears to make the fine-tune adjustments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shimoyjk View Post
That was quick , i know it’s early in the morning there...

I’ll try to imitate mic positions, and turn the piano to minimize bleed.

Thanks again! Hope I can make it better!
Old 3 weeks ago
  #108
Gear Maniac
Virtual gobo technique..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Remoteness View Post
Yeah, it's difficult to see. I always thought a baby grand's dimensions are between just under five feet long to just under 6 feet long with a width of five feet.

In any event, a B would have definitely been too big for your room.

As you can see in that first Jon Batiste image I posted, the drums were closer to Jon's piano than they appear in you image. I had no physical baffles, blankets or gobos, yet we got a killer isolation and that "good leakage" you would want to have in a closeup environment like that. It's all about my, "Virtual Gobo" technique. It works most of the time.

I'd love for you to listen to the raw tracks from that gig, with no EQ, gates, or compressors, just panning and volume levels. It's an excellent starting point for a mix because I took care of all the issues during the origination.

In time I'm sure you will grow and eventually find the right space for your projects. In the meantime, don't let that small room stop you from getting a big sound!

What say you?
Hey Steve!

I’m looking for an information about your virtual gobo technique.
So, let’s say I place a piano and let drummer play a but.
Then I listening drums and walking around piano and find a good spot(less drum sound) by my ear? Is it what would you refer as virtual gobo technique?

Curious about it, since I’ve been reading and searching your virtual gobo technique but dont think I totally understood.

This sat have some free time so I called my student that will playing some drums while I miking piano and listen back. Quiet excited because I can experiment with another person since it’s been hard for me cuz I have to do everything by myself.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #109
Gear Maniac
Never mind, I’ve realized that I have to study and experiment with different polar pattern, which side they null and etc..

Are there any way to do practice this? Should I hire someone all day and let him/her play and I try different miking? From reading books I’ve learnedsomething but I need to really understand it... maybe I gotta hire someone all day and do experiment.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #110
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Remoteness's Avatar
Ah yes, my "Virtual Gobo" technique…

The term "virtual gobo" technique was coined in an article I was in called, “Drum Miking for Live Recordings.” It was in the April 2001 issue of EQ Magazine. I talked about how recording a live performance can be a challenging gig because you want to achieve the best possible recording without changing the artists' world or make then uncomfortable. We cannot always place gobos on stage to isolate musicians during a live show, but there are some simple ways to take advantage of the microphone polar pattern to increase isolation and reduce leakage problems. That’s what I call the "virtual gobo."

It's quite simple, really... "It’s all about the placement and positioning of all transducers involved with the live recording." This technique ensures that the sound quality of the recording is at a maximum, while on stage leakage is kept to a minimum.

To get more control of the recorded sound during the mix I tend to place and position the mics and speakers to maximize the isolation. You can curb the "bad" leakage with proper mic placement in reference to where the speakers are placed.

When we are primary audio on stage, we get to pick the mics and position them as we like. If necessary, we suggest different speaker placements to help the recording. It all depends on how important the recording is to the production. I try to position the mics away from loud sound sources. Kind of like a "virtual gobo" or gate. This is one place were "Vaporware" gobos workout well. Pointing the mics away from the offensive sound source will yield better isolation and less noise to gate or mute later. That makes our job much easier during the mix process.

As you may already know, recording a live performance can be a challenging situation because you want to achieve the best possible recording without changing the artists’ world or making them uncomfortable. It’s a balance between the ultimate placement of microphones and what the artist and their engineers are comfortable with – especially for drums. Obviously we cannot always place gobos on stage to isolate the musicians during a live concert performance, but there are some simple ways to take advantage of microphone polar patterns to increase isolation and reduce leakage problems. By getting it right in the recording process, there’s no need to “fix it in the mix.” By the way, you can use these ideas for sound reinforcement dates as well.

Although there are usually no baffles around the drums, we’re able to achieve pretty good isolation of the drum mics from bass, guitar, piano, etc. – even where the overhead mics are concerned.

My drum mic'ing technique has been fairly consistent regardless of the drummer and kit. I haven’t changed my drum mic procedure in decades. The basic idea is that I position the mics to take advantage of their pickup patterns, and reduce leakage as much as possible. I rotate each and every mic so that the back of the polar pattern is pointing toward a stage monitor or whatever instrument might be challenging the drum sound. You need to keep the rejection point of the mic facing toward the offensive sound, minimizing the leakage. To check phase between the mics, I solo various combinations of mics in mono and listen carefully to whether the low end becomes weaker when they’re added together. If the low end weakens, I move the mic to help fatten the sound.

Drum overhead mics can be a source of unwanted leakage due to the fact that they’re generally placed around the kit pointing in “unfriendly” directions. For me, the key to isolating my beyer M160s (my favorite O/H mics for decades) is to place them high up, pointing straight down. Looking at the floor tom side I center one mic over the floor tom and cymbals. On the other (hi-hat) side of the kit I make sure that this overhead mic is centered somewhere between the snare, first rack tom and cymbals.

What’s interesting to me about this arrangement is that the higher I place the overheads (most of the time that is) above the kit, the more cymbals and drum kit I get, while the less bleed I get from the stage. It’s the reverse of what you’d expect, but the higher they go, the better the isolation of the kit from the rest of the stage. Bringing the overheads down close will give you more bell of the cymbals, but remember that you’re also closer to the other instruments and speakers. Sixty percent of my drum sound is a balance between the two overhead mics and the rest of the kit mics.

Important note: If you're not mixing the tracks, this may cause some serious problems for the mixer down the road. They will not be able to "fix it in the mix" and unfortunately, you're also not helping the mixer's economics when you do this kind of stuff.

On a more serious note, of course there ways to practice this! Hiring someone to play while your experiment with the different mics and mic placements is a fabulous idea. Remember to also position the instruments and other transducers in the room. Experimentation is key!


Quote:
Originally Posted by shimoyjk View Post
Hey Steve!

I’m looking for an information about your virtual gobo technique.
So, let’s say I place a piano and let drummer play a but.
Then I listening drums and walking around piano and find a good spot(less drum sound) by my ear? Is it what would you refer as virtual gobo technique?

Curious about it, since I’ve been reading and searching your virtual gobo technique but dont think I totally understood.

This sat have some free time so I called my student that will playing some drums while I miking piano and listen back. Quiet excited because I can experiment with another person since it’s been hard for me cuz I have to do everything by myself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shimoyjk View Post
Never mind, I’ve realized that I have to study and experiment with different polar pattern, which side they null and etc..

Are there any way to do practice this? Should I hire someone all day and let him/her play and I try different miking? From reading books I’ve learnedsomething but I need to really understand it... maybe I gotta hire someone all day and do experiment.
Old 1 week ago
  #111
Gear Maniac
bleed is almost gone!

I was able to produce decent piano sounds, almost zero drum bleeding. will post few examples and photos this weekend! I'm pretty happy.

What I did was

moved piano towards more middle of the room.

2 small sdc cardioids inside of the piano. (I need to vary positions to capture better piano sound, but overall bleed was almost gone.)

close lid, and put blanket over. 2 Gobos as steve suggest infront of piano.

I'm attaching a photo that shows how I mic'ed. I'm using Audix mic clamp so I could close lid but same time there was a limitation of angles, wasn't flexible as I want them to be.



I realized that, this type of room, whatever I do to drum, sound always travel through air. I tried 3
pretty tall and thick gobo(6ft, 7" ), drum were surrounded by them as if drum was in seperate room, but the bleed I was getting was still there (there were 3~5db differences when I tried 2 Gobos vs 3 Gobos near drums.)

so I put 2 gobos near drums, 2 gobos piano and closed lid, put blanket over it, that was it.

sounded good.

Now I'm going to experiment with different mic to capture more air, room sound of piano.

hopefully I'll be ready before 12/22 (1st student band is coming to record some songs, quiet excited , also another one 12/27 and few next january.


I started this project as experiment, to learn how to record instruments and eventually produce my music here without spending money at studio (of course, if I just pay 1k -1.5k a day, nice studio with great engineer will be there, but I just want to do it by myself, always wanted to have big space and equipment and ability to do my own.)

feel like there is still alot to learn, but getting there for sure. hope I learn more next time!

so, if you guys have any thoughts, or

recommendation of mic clamp, that would be great
Attached Thumbnails
Small room small mics for piano-img_8973.jpg  
Old 1 week ago
  #112
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by shimoyjk View Post
(...) so, if you guys have any thoughts, or recommendation of mic clamp, that would be great
i'm mostly using manfrotto clamps and ldc's with whatever mic clamps they come) but my main point is that i'm positioning the mics differently, see pic.
Attached Thumbnails
Small room small mics for piano-20190125_090651.jpg  
Old 1 week ago
  #113
Gear Maniac
Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah View Post
i'm mostly using manfrotto clamps and ldc's with whatever mic clamps they come) but my main point is that i'm positioning the mics differently, see pic.

Will try that next time!
Last week I was focusing on bleeding, and I think I found piano placement as you guys mentioned(middle of the room), but this time I’ll concentrate positioning and piano ambience mic as well.

Thanks! That was quick reply
Old 1 week ago
  #114
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Remoteness's Avatar
Have you considered installing an acoustical umbrella or portable gazebo over the drums? Some have created a way to raise and lower the umbrella as needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shimoyjk View Post
Will try that next time!
Last week I was focusing on bleeding, and I think I found piano placement as you guys mentioned(middle of the room), but this time I’ll concentrate positioning and piano ambience mic as well.

Thanks! That was quick reply
Old 1 week ago
  #115
Gear Maniac
Acoustic umbrella.. oh

Quote:
Originally Posted by Remoteness View Post
Have you considered installing an acoustical umbrella or portable gazebo over the drums? Some have created a way to raise and lower the umbrella as needed.
Will google it. Never heard about or thought about it before!
Old 1 week ago
  #116
Super Moderator
 
Remoteness's Avatar
Check this out...

Acoustic Tratment with Patio Umbrellas!

Keep in mind, the idea is to also treat the umbrella acoustically. You don't want the reflection coming back to the drum kit.



Quote:
Originally Posted by shimoyjk View Post
Will google it. Never heard about or thought about it before!
Old 1 week ago
  #117
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Remoteness View Post
Check this out...

Acoustic Tratment with Patio Umbrellas!

Keep in mind, the idea is to also treat the umbrella acoustically. You don't want the reflection coming back to the drum kit.
Looks cool....like something Neil Young might have used as a stage prop/set item on his 1973 'Tonight's the Night' tour (old hubcaps, platform boots, wooden cigar-store Indian etc)...but more functional !
Attached Thumbnails
Small room small mics for piano-neil-young-2.jpg  
Old 1 week ago
  #118
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Remoteness View Post
Check this out...

Acoustic Tratment with Patio Umbrellas!

Keep in mind, the idea is to also treat the umbrella acoustically. You don't want the reflection coming back to the drum kit.

googling and gearslutz, I found pensado's place episode with eric valentine was interesting as he installed acoustic umbrella how cool it is...

hope someday I can build something, but I gotta do something with I have now.

if drum sound keep resonating in the corner, I'll try to make a umbrella in a few months.

thanks Steve and deedeeyeah as always
Old 1 week ago
  #119
Gear Head
Clamp

Recommend Triad-Orbit IO-C.

Erich
Old 1 week ago
  #120
Gear Maniac
sample song

just played song that i'm writing,

used 2 cardioid sdc, 2 ribbons all inside piano, lid closed.

I was able to get decent level, around -6 (in daw, studio one)

also I played drum, bleed level is around -24 so if there is way to lessen drum bleed that would be awesome. going to work on that this weekend.

also, going to try with just 2 cardioid but want to achieve more full sound, now i'm getting little thin compare to ribbon but I think that has to be with mic positioning. this time I was trying deedeeyeah's position (not exactly same but similar).

it was better than before for sure, but will keep experiment
Attached Files

sample song.mp3 (2.02 MB, 60 views)

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