The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
New Sony PCM-D10
Old 27th March 2019
  #31
Lives for gear
 

There is a difference between making a reference and making a direct comparison...saying that the Mixwizard's EQ sounds similar to console "X" is not making a comparison between the two console, it's making reference to a known type of performance.

Declaring that you're disappointed that the preamps on the Mixwizard are not a clean as those on the SSL live however is a very different thing.

Just curious, but now that you've heard that it does not perform as well as the Sound Devices Mixpre 10T or 633 recorders, will that affect your buying decision?
Old 27th March 2019
  #32
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
There is a difference between making a reference and making a direct comparison...saying that the Mixwizard's EQ sounds similar to console "X" is not making a comparison between the two console, it's making reference to a known type of performance.

Declaring that you're disappointed that the preamps on the Mixwizard are not a clean as those on the SSL live however is a very different thing.

Just curious, but now that you've heard that it does not perform as well as the Sound Devices Mixpre 10T or 633 recorders, will that affect your buying decision?
I see what you mean about the distinction between using references vs. drawing direct comparisons... although I'm still not against the idea of reading direct comparisons. To each his/her own, I guess.

As for whether the preamp comparison between these two recorders would influence me, probably not... although if a similar review compared a different low cost recorder more favorably to its high end counterpart, I would definitely take note. Two such examples come to mind. I seem to remember hearing that the Tascam HS-P82 holds up remarkably well considering how much less it costs than its SD counterpart. In the realm of mics, the Line Audio CM3 and OM1 are often compared with their Schoeps counterparts at roughly 10x the price. No one expects the underdog to outshine its top tier counterpart, but if it even comes close, that's useful information.

So, perhaps it was unhelpful to complain about the Sony preamp not matching an SD preamp, but I don't think that means that the comparison shouldn't be made in the first place. Perhaps a better approach would be to compare the two devices with a greater emphasis on which traits are more closely matched between them. That way, people like me, who have experienced some really nice gear but can't afford to own it, could see how things measure up against a known standard, and in which categories these less expensive devices excel.
Old 29th March 2019
  #33
Here for the gear
 

I can't decide between buying the PCM D100 or the new D10. I'm recording music for opera rehearsal purposes. While the noise floor is probably less important, the quality of the built in microphones is paramount--I won't be carrying around a big sound bag but need good fidelity. I'll be reviewing the audio immediately after recording so quality of the headphone pre-amp is arguably as important as the mic pre-amp. I also like the idea of playback through bluetooth speakers at times but would likely listen mostly by high quality headphones to get the best fidelity of the sound and overtones. I like the size and DSD capabilities of the D100 but hear that the headphone amp on the D10 is supposed to be better. Can anyone who has used both devices verify this?
Old 29th March 2019
  #34
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by operarara View Post
Can anyone who has used both devices verify this?
I don't think you'll find many people here who've done that yet, since as far as I know the PCM-D10 is only available in Asia right now. It's supposed to be available in North America and Europe starting in April (i.e. anytime after this week!), but it's not clear how fast delivery will be.

I'm in a similar debate; the D-100 is widely tested so at least it's a sure thing; the other point to consider (which won't be relevant for you unless you're recording opera outdoors!) is that Rycote make a lyre and windscreen for the D-100 and it's not clear when/if those would be available for the D10. The dimensions are different enough that I doubt the Rycote kit for the D100 would work for the D10. You'd at least want the lyre or something else to serve as suspension, as the D100 is very sensitive to handling noise so I imagine the D10 is as well.

I wouldn't even be considering this recorder (I already have a good portable recorder and a MS rig) but there are times when I'm traveling overseas and have very limited baggage space, so a smaller recorder may be all I can handle.
Old 30th March 2019
  #35
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeVlad View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
"When using the XLR inputs, the D10 is noisier than the Sound Devices Mixpre 10T or 633 recorders. Granted, these are recorders with more features and in different price categories, but it still is a bit disappointing."

The guy buys a $500 recorder and is disappointed that it does not have the same performance as a couple of Sound Devices boxes that are more than 3 and almost 7 times it's cost?!? Respected indeed.
Right, so the reason I compared it with the two recorders in question is because that's what I had on hand. It's also what a lot of the folks I know work with so it provides an easy benchmark.

One other thing: the Kashmir preamps in the 10T can also be found on the cheaper Mixpre 3 and 6 so in the end I think it's not a 100% unfair comparison.

At any rate, do let me know what you'd like me to test the D10 against and I'll try to do it after my next field recording trip.
Sounds like you have experience with the D100 and the D10. Ignoring noise floor, how do the built in XY microphones and the headphone amps compare between the two?

Thanks
Old 31st March 2019
  #36
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
There is a difference between making a reference and making a direct comparison...saying that the Mixwizard's EQ sounds similar to console "X" is not making a comparison between the two console, it's making reference to a known type of performance.

Declaring that you're disappointed that the preamps on the Mixwizard are not a clean as those on the SSL live however is a very different thing.

Just curious, but now that you've heard that it does not perform as well as the Sound Devices Mixpre 10T or 633 recorders, will that affect your buying decision?

Actually -- yes. I'm looking for a stereo field recorder smaller than my Zoom F8 and with equal or nicer preamps. Like the reviewer, I also have an M10, which I love, but will need something with XLR inputs for my new pair of MKH8040s. Was debating exactly this, the new Sony PCM-D10 vs Sound Devices MixPre-3 -- which, as the reviewer says in this thread, uses the same Kashmir preamps as are in the 10M. According to the specs, it looked like the D10 XLR preamps would not be as good as the Kashmir ones, but it is helpful to hear the reviewer's direct experiences (also on other areas, like battery life, build quality).

The reviewer's choice of comparisons is on point, in my opinion, given the current rotation of new recorders. Recall also that, while no one expected the Zoom F8 ($1k) to beat the Sound Devices 6/7 ($3-7k) series on sound quality, it was still a valid question of how close it would get. And Sound Devices seemed to take the comparison seriously enough that they released the new MixPre series ($400 - 1700), with Kashmir preamps that do seem to be comparable to those on the 6/7 series (the lines are still differentiated in other ways).
Old 8th April 2019
  #37
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by operarara View Post
Sounds like you have experience with the D100 and the D10. Ignoring noise floor, how do the built in XY microphones and the headphone amps compare between the two?

Thanks
In my original review I compared the on-board mics in the D10 and D100: Handheld recorder review and comparison — Mindful Audio. Scroll down for examples.

TL;DR the D100 sounds decidedly better and cleaner even if you don't take self-noise into account. If you'll be mainly using the on-board mics, the obvious choice is the D100.
Old 8th April 2019
  #38
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by operarara View Post
I can't decide between buying the PCM D100 or the new D10. I'm recording music for opera rehearsal purposes. While the noise floor is probably less important, the quality of the built in microphones is paramount--I won't be carrying around a big sound bag but need good fidelity. I'll be reviewing the audio immediately after recording so quality of the headphone pre-amp is arguably as important as the mic pre-amp. I also like the idea of playback through bluetooth speakers at times but would likely listen mostly by high quality headphones to get the best fidelity of the sound and overtones. I like the size and DSD capabilities of the D100 but hear that the headphone amp on the D10 is supposed to be better. Can anyone who has used both devices verify this?
Gosh, where to start...

So quality of the mics is "paramount" and you want high quality HP amp but then playing back through BT speakers is OK too? You do know that BT audio is data-reduced right?

It all sounds like you need an SD MixPre3 really. Far from being a big sound bag. The machine itself is almost the same size anyway.
Old 9th April 2019
  #39
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by apple-q View Post
Gosh, where to start...

So quality of the mics is "paramount" and you want high quality HP amp but then playing back through BT speakers is OK too? You do know that BT audio is data-reduced right?

It all sounds like you need an SD MixPre3 really. Far from being a big sound bag. The machine itself is almost the same size anyway.
To apple-q: Thank you for your unnecessarily snarky comment.

Yes I'm aware that bluetooth audio is sent at reduced sample rate and bit depth and dependent on the DA converters of the bluetooth speaker rather than those of the unit doing the sending. Never implied it would be my primary method of review. I was pretty clear that I'm going to be doing critical listening on headphones through the headphone preamp but bluetooth playback may be a helpful feature for some situations (ie. immediate playback to other performers).

Not everyone uses their equipment the same way you do. I'm a singer, not a sound engineer, and these recordings are for rehearsal purposes.

I asked about the quality of the built in mics because I don't want to be carrying outboard mics and cords to rehearsals/practices. Plus, a matched pair or stereo mic and cords would be extra cost. Pretty sure the on-board mics of the MixPre3 aren't going to be as good as either Sony ;P.

Thanks to George Vlad for your helpful response regarding built-in mic quality. I am definitely leaning to D100. Any thoughts on the relative quality of the headphone preamps between the two?
Old 11th April 2019
  #40
Here for the gear
 

I haven't noticed a drastic difference in headpphone amp quality. FYI I'm happy with what the headphones sound like on the D100 even for very subtle soundscapes.
Old 15th April 2019
  #41
Gear Addict
 

Does anyone know where in the USA I can get this? B&H said available on April 15th for months and now on their site it shows May 1st. I can't seem to find any other authorized retailer that sells it

Any one here have any idea who carries this in stock?
Old 16th April 2019
  #42
Lives for gear
 
jayfield's Avatar
 

It's been available in Japan for awhile and I found one in Hong Kong. If BH have changed their date to May 1st, then because they are one of the biggest retailers, it may not come to North America on April 15th anymore. Maybe check with Sweetwater on their arrival date?
Old 16th April 2019
  #43
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayfield View Post
It's been available in Japan for awhile and I found one in Hong Kong. If BH have changed their date to May 1st, then because they are one of the biggest retailers, it may not come to North America on April 15th anymore. Maybe check with Sweetwater on their arrival date?

Checked with them and others. Sweetwater doesn't even have it in their system to pre-roder.

B&H can't be the only US retailer?
Old 4th June 2019
  #44
Gear Addict
 

Anyone know how this Sony D10 would compare to the Tascam DR-100MKIII?
Old 31st July 2019
  #45
Here for the gear
I've been searching high and low for EIN stats for the D10 but haven't found anything. I'm very interested in this kit. I'm hoping for something that gives me decent on-board mics for those times I wanted to travel lighter and not bring an external setup, but that will also perform well in terms of EIN when I do plug in something like the BP4025. Definitely interested in hearing how it compares to the Tascam DR100MkIII and the Zoom H6, both in terms of internal and external input.

Whilst it might not stand up to the D100, for me that's sort of a moot point as the D100 doesn't give the XLR flexibility.

Anyway, here's hoping we can get some EIN and dynamic range stats on the D10 soon
Old 11th August 2019
  #46
Lives for gear
 
JamesClark1991's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ebauche View Post
I've been searching high and low for EIN stats for the D10 but haven't found anything. I'm very interested in this kit. I'm hoping for something that gives me decent on-board mics for those times I wanted to travel lighter and not bring an external setup, but that will also perform well in terms of EIN when I do plug in something like the BP4025. Definitely interested in hearing how it compares to the Tascam DR100MkIII and the Zoom H6, both in terms of internal and external input.

Whilst it might not stand up to the D100, for me that's sort of a moot point as the D100 doesn't give the XLR flexibility.

Anyway, here's hoping we can get some EIN and dynamic range stats on the D10 soon
Someone online did a noise test. It's noisier than the older Sony recorder and no better than the current Zoom handy recorders either. So disappointing.

There's a big hole in the market for a high performance handy recorder right now and nobody seems to want to fill it. The new Zoom F6 is tiny and looks great but no capsule mic support, so that means lugging around more gear which doesn't fix the issue.
Old 12th August 2019
  #47
Here for the gear
After a lot of thinking and weighing up all the different options, I've decided I'm just going to get the D100 and some LOM Usi mics. I can always get a powered condenser like the Rode NT4 or the AT8022 if I want a dedicated external mic.
Old 18th August 2019
  #48
Here for the gear
 

[\QUOTE]
The fact that they claim to be quieter than the previous D100, and now with XLR inputs. I'm sold already.
[/QUOTE]

Hi, where did you read Sony's claim that the D10 is quieter that the D100?

I have searched everywhere and all I found was the D10 noise floor is worse. Field testers are claiming the D10 to be noisier than the TASCAM Dr-100mkiii. I have read nothing, not even from Sony that says the D10 is even close to the quality of the D100.

Please post proof.
There is very little on the web regarding the D10 and at 300 USD less than the D100, if it is that good, I will buy it today.

I just don't think that is Sony's strategy for the D10. Why throw away profits from the purist group that needs, loves and uses the D100? Better to draw in the not so purist group, make them hungry for better quality audio and sell them the D100 when they are ready and want perfection?

Just saying, Sony is big business. They don't increase value and drop $300.00 while killing a true winner like the D100.

Please, please, please prove me wrong. I welcome the good news.

Last edited by gthopkins; 18th August 2019 at 06:37 PM.. Reason: error
Old 1st December 2019
  #49
Lives for gear
 

I am owning two very good Shoeps XLR Mics and since a few days also a D100 and I am wondering if there is any (kind of adapter) equipment which allows me to use my external Shoeps Mics with the D100. Any idea?
Old 2nd December 2019
  #50
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by musicsound-2 View Post
I am owning two very good Shoeps XLR Mics and since a few days also a D100 and I am wondering if there is any (kind of adapter) equipment which allows me to use my external Shoeps Mics with the D100. Any idea?
Denecke Dcode PS-2
Ambient Recording UMP II
Old 8th December 2019
  #51
Lives for gear
 

Thanks !
Old 16th December 2019
  #52
Lives for gear
Lack of digital I/O on the new unit is a big downside compared to the D100. This feature alone made the D100 a great travel companion. You could use it with built-in mics with the Rycote handle+lyre rig for quick, stealthy handl-held pickups while walking around, or with the Soundman binaural mics. D100 is great to have in your camera bag to capture sound to accompany still images. Then, for better sound quality with phantom powered mics, use TOSLINK out from the Sound Devices USBPre2 (running in stand-alone mode) to the optical input in the Sony’s 3.5mm line input jack. Not the equal of my Seven, but still a nice modular solution when you’re traveling light.
Old 26th December 2019
  #53
Here for the gear
 

Hello.
I've been reading comments on the D10, it seems like a lot of negativity.

I'm planning on buying one, here's why :

In short :
I want a recorder with good built-in microphone for compactness, as well as two jack inputs, minimum. Years ago I owned a very good Zoom H5.
I'm disapointed that the Sony can't be used as an audio interface. I want something that is higher quality than the H5.

My use case :
I will use it as main microphone input for a shoulder mounted camera setup.
The monitoring out will be plugged to the Camera so I can use the camera's audio to sync with the recorder audio. I'll monitor the onput level by matching camera's max in with the recorder's max in.

The ability to use bluetooth for start/stop is a interesting as my camera's main monitor is my iphone. I could just swipe to the D10's app to stop/start recording if needed. Ideally, the recorder will be running all day, as I don't want to have to think about it. The battery life improvement over the D100 is also a big plus.

I do mainly video, but having two XLR in is also good, as I can plug other mics if needed. Right now, I own two entry level wireless system that will be connected via jack when doing interviews.

The Zoom F6 and SD options are very good, for only-audio people.
I can't justify having 6+ inputs on my camera.
I would still have to add at least one microphone, it's more things to attach to my shoulder rig.

The D10 in that sense is lighter, more compact.

I also have multiple USB out on my camera to power my phone as well as my other audio systems. Powering the D10 via usb is a big plus.

In short, the only bummer for me is :

Can't be used as audio interface.
More noisy than D100, but more options and more affordable.
The few audio samples I found online really convinced me.

Edit : I ended up getting it from Japan for "only" 427$ delivered. 385€.
The PCM D100 is 659€ in EU shops.
It seems like a VERY GOOD deal for the sound quality we're getting out of that thick baby.
Can't wait to test it !
Old 30th August 2020
  #54
Gear Addict
 

Now that it has been out for over a year, would anyone recommend a better handheld recorder that has both built in mics and XLR than the Sony PCM-D10?
Old 31st August 2020
  #55
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SDDP View Post
Now that it has been out for over a year, would anyone recommend a better handheld recorder that has both built in mics and XLR than the Sony PCM-D10?
I haven’t tried the D10, but the Tascam DR100MK3 is very good.
Old 31st August 2020
  #56
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by dogmusic View Post
I haven’t tried the D10, but the Tascam DR100MK3 is very good.
I am very happy with mine as well
Old 31st August 2020
  #57
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by dogmusic View Post
I haven’t tried the D10, but the Tascam DR100MK3 is very good.
Agree.
(although I’ve found there’s weird noise when recording on the built-ins and NO headphone is connected)
Old 1st September 2020
  #58
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by heva View Post
Agree.
(although I’ve found there’s weird noise when recording on the built-ins and NO headphone is connected)
Have you set the speaker switch to off?
Old 1st September 2020
  #59
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by dogmusic View Post
Have you set the speaker switch to off?
Yes.
offropic: Ran several tests, anytime a minijack is inserted in the headphone socket, the bleeps are gone. Returned the deck for another one. Despite this tiny (hopefully not general design) issue, I like it a lot.
📝 Reply

Similar Threads

Thread / Thread Starter Replies / Views Last Post
replies: 62 views: 5157
Avatar for bongo
bongo 23rd December 2011
replies: 44 views: 10651
Avatar for junoir
junoir 18th July 2019
replies: 613 views: 74986
Avatar for ardis
ardis 19th November 2019
replies: 65 views: 6507
Avatar for J_Rogers
J_Rogers 8th April 2019
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
🖨️ Show Printable Version
✉️ Email this Page
🔍 Search thread
🎙️ View mentioned gear
Forum Jump
Forum Jump