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What Are You Guys Using For Talkback Speaker?
Old 18th April 2019 | Show parent
  #32
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tourtelot's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Found this on Amazon. Super cheap and works quite well.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

D.
Old 18th April 2019
  #33
Gear Maniac
Here I use Bogen DDU250. Buy it used and save... built like a tank. Momentary AND latching switch.
Old 18th April 2019
  #34
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Klein+Hummel Mini Monitor MM201. Great little speaker for talkback. Quiet and sturdy.
Old 19th April 2019 | Show parent
  #35
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🎧 10 years
Thanks for those links Timothy...the're built (and priced !) for broadcast and professional applications. I'm searching more for a DIY solder it up myself solution as I have the other components (mic, mic pre, stand) already
Old 19th April 2019 | Show parent
  #36
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by tourtelot View Post
Found this on Amazon. Super cheap and works quite well.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

D.
Yes it's clearly a purpose built solution and cost is low (either new or used)....however I already have an excess of suitable mics, the short desk stand, audio interface, mic pre etc. So I really just want to build the switch box itself, using off the shelf Mouser-type parts and simply lack the knowledge of where to put the switch in circuit (before or after pre) and type of switch (SPST, SPDT, DPDT etc) I'm a DIY hot soldering iron kind of guy, at least in this specific case.
Old 19th April 2019 | Show parent
  #37
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jwh1192's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
Yes it's clearly a purpose built solution and cost is low (either new or used)....however I already have an excess of suitable mics, the short desk stand, audio interface, mic pre etc. So I really just want to build the switch box itself, using off the shelf Mouser-type parts and simply lack the knowledge of where to put the switch in circuit (before or after pre) and type of switch (SPST, SPDT, DPDT etc) I'm a DIY hot soldering iron kind of guy, at least in this specific case.
lets see .. i have an old High School (Report to the principle kind) anncounce microphone .. and like the ones brought up in the links .. the switch is after the mic but before the pre ... dynamic Mic only NO 48v or Ouch !! ..

i will have to open it up to see what config the switch is .. an SPST on Pin 2 would break the circuit just fine .. but might cause a Pop .. mine does .. but we have used it on recordings .. fun little NASA to Spacecraft thing ..

i have a little Handheld Pushbutton Switch that could be used for a Separate Microphone .. built-into what looks like the size of a Swu=itchcraft XLR but slightly larger .. i will dig it up and take a PICture

just a couple ideas .. cheers
Old 19th April 2019 | Show parent
  #38
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klimermonk View Post
Here I use Bogen DDU250. Buy it used and save... built like a tank. Momentary AND latching switch.
Yes, it's clearly the right tool for the job....however, perversely, I already have all the individual components ...and Marie Kondo-like want to avoid acquiring more 'stuff' to do the same job.

So I simply want to build a push-to-talk switch, install it in a small box and glue that to the base of my little desk stand. Not acquiring new stuff....I know, how very un-GS is that I apologise publicly here.

Last edited by studer58; 19th April 2019 at 02:19 AM..
Old 19th April 2019 | Show parent
  #39
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bremusound View Post
Klein+Hummel Mini Monitor MM201. Great little speaker for talkback. Quiet and sturdy.
Looks great for the job....almost identical to my Fostex 6301. However my dilemma exists at the mic end of the chain...the amp/speaker is already sorted
Old 19th April 2019 | Show parent
  #40
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ok, here are some pictures of my high school mic and push button handheld switch .. the Handheld is a simple breaking of One Wire !!

not sure what the switches were supposed to do .. i put the XLR on the mic a long time ago ..
Attached Thumbnails
What Are You Guys Using For Talkback Speaker?-img_1811.jpg   What Are You Guys Using For Talkback Speaker?-img_1812.jpg   What Are You Guys Using For Talkback Speaker?-img_1813.jpg   What Are You Guys Using For Talkback Speaker?-img_1814.jpg   What Are You Guys Using For Talkback Speaker?-img_1815.jpg  

What Are You Guys Using For Talkback Speaker?-img_1816.jpg  
Old 19th April 2019 | Show parent
  #41
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwh1192 View Post
lets see .. i have an old High School (Report to the principle kind) anncounce microphone .. and like the ones brought up in the links .. the switch is after the mic but before the pre ... dynamic Mic only NO 48v or Ouch !! ..

i will have to open it up to see what config the switch is .. an SPST on Pin 2 would break the circuit just fine .. but might cause a Pop .. mine does .. but we have used it on recordings .. fun little NASA to Spacecraft thing ..

i have a little Handheld Pushbutton Switch that could be used for a Separate Microphone .. built-into what looks like the size of a Swu=itchcraft XLR but slightly larger .. i will dig it up and take a PICture

just a couple ideas .. cheers
Great, thanks for that jwh..a simple handheld or small inline box-mounted momentary (ie normally open) switch is all I need. A pop less switch is a desirable bonus (I'd hoped avoidance of 48v might ensure that, but maybe not ?)

Ideally it would be mounted either to the mic stand base or onto the table top, so the producer can hold the score or notes in one hand and operate switch with the other
Old 19th April 2019 | Show parent
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
Great, thanks for that jwh..a simple handheld or small inline box-mounted momentary (ie normally open) switch is all I need. A pop less switch is a desirable bonus (I'd hoped avoidance of 48v might ensure that, but maybe not ?)

Ideally it would be mounted either to the mic stand base or onto the table top, so the producer can hold the score or notes in one hand and operate switch with the other
since we are Audio People .. this is the High School mic .. so you can hear .. not really a pop .. kinda works
Attached Files

Studer58 .mp3 (335.6 KB, 791 views)

tim powell .mp3 (292.7 KB, 799 views)

Old 19th April 2019 | Show parent
  #43
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwh1192 View Post
ok, here are some pictures of my high school mic and push button handheld switch .. the Handheld is a simple breaking of One Wire
not sure what the switches were supposed to do .. i put the XLR on the mic a long time ago ..
It appears that the Shure announce mic has a single (nicely wide and large...hard to miss !) push to talk switch-bar on top.

The 2 slide switches on the underside of the box probably allow the user to select between momentary and latching 'push to talk' modes....for those times in the recording session when the producer wants to conduct a heated argument with the artist, and be free to flail arms around, without needing to hold the talk button down !

I like the momentary switch concealed in the XLR shell....the shell could be attached (BluTack ?) to the edge or top of the table/desk at a convenient spot for the producer to reach easily. That's probably what I need to build for myself

I wonder what constitutes a noiseless switch...is it due to 2 sets of contacts (pins 2 and 3) both connecting at the same time, or a diode or capacitor in circuit perhaps ? If I can nail the noiseless aspect of switching, that will be ideal !
Old 19th April 2019 | Show parent
  #44
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwh1192 View Post
since we are Audio People .. this is the High School mic .. so you can hear .. not really a pop .. kinda works
"Tim, quick, where do we hide the cigarettes ?" "Down the socks, down the socks !!" I kind of like the small pop...it's like a quick attention-getter, nothing at all like a phantom power 'sky is falling down' crash. Thanks so much for your fast and thorough work here, the photos and recordings jwh1192....very helpful indeed

Out of interest, was the Switchcraft XLR button switch similarly quiet, if you can recall using it ?
Old 19th April 2019 | Show parent
  #45
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So I built an PTT box, a Hammond box with two XLRs, a heavy-duty PTT NO switch, a few capacitors and resistors. A few hours work. It does not work nearly as well as the cheap PTT box from Amazon

I am using a better mic, some AT gooseneck mic, but the one that came with the Amazon/Monoprice switch works just as well. It's a talkback mic, not a Schoeps on a cello.

Just my experience but in the realm of the 80/20 rule, the Amazon product is unbeatable.

How much is you time worth?

D.

PS. This mic and pricing might not work nearly as well in the EU. Can't speak to that, but in the US, it is pretty nearly unbeatable.

BTW, all those little speakers that folks have been talking about? Might work okay for a small session. Again, my experience. A QSC K8 is pretty much the minimum that will fill a cathedral space with an intelligible talkback. Little speaker? ****e!
Old 19th April 2019 | Show parent
  #46
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🎧 10 years
Because it's the 'tail end' of the chain (ie already have mic, desk stand, cable, mic pre and speaker/amp) I don't mind DIYing it....and jwh's red push-button in an XLR shell looks about right to me !

Do you really need to fill a cathedral with talkback chatter.....why wouldn't you locate the speaker next to the organist, or on a mic stand behind the conductor ?

You simply need to get that small, underpowered talkback speaker in the listener's near-field zone ((say 3-4 feet away) with appropriate height and angling to do so. All that costs is sufficient mic cable to get it there....and who ever doesn't have enough mic cable for that ? Proximity trumps wattage....simple as that....and it's usually only one key person near the player(s) who needs to hear the talkback anyway. Good talkback is all about scale...ideally it's 2 people having quiet, brief conversation....not half time at the Super Bowl !
Old 19th April 2019
  #47
Old 19th April 2019 | Show parent
  #48
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy Powell View Post
Thanks Tim, that looks pretty much like what I'm needing to make, and (if correct) confirms that a SPST momentary switch will work. My woodworking is not up to that standard, and I like the idea of embedding it within an XLR shell, so I need to source a switch to see if it's feasible in sizing terms ? for the heads up !
Old 19th April 2019 | Show parent
  #49
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1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post

Do you really need to fill a cathedral with talkback chatter.....why wouldn't you locate the speaker next to the organist, or on a mic stand behind the conductor ?

!
Okay, not that I necessarily need to explain myself here but. . .

The work that I have been doing, where I needed a T/B from the control room to the stage, has not been about a two-person conversation (there is a PL telly for that) but about a producer's instructions to, at least, sections of a large choir, a small orchestra and/or soloists. These are not recordings of a string quartet. The QSC K8 does not overwhelm the space but is clearly heard by all. Too loud? I turn it down, Fostex speaker too soft to be heard? Can't turn it up 'cause it sounds terrible. Just my way of doing things. Y'all can do it any old way you please, and God bless.

I have plenty of small speakers, and even smaller speakers, but in my most recent sessions, they were not the correct "fit". They do work well in other situations.

Just like, sometimes, two mics will do the job, sometimes eight, and maybe even more if you're scoring a motion picture. There is no "correct answer".

I'll sell you my little home-made PTT box for $90 plus shipping if you don't want to reinvent the wheel. It's all-pro but I don't need it anymore.

D.
Old 19th April 2019
  #50
Gear Maniac
For talkback speaker I use Mackie SRM150. Self-powered, loud, has interconnections for anything, sounds OK, and more importantly: compact, mounts onto any kind of stand you like, and CHEAP

Edit: Oh, and it can take a real beating too. Evidently built to be knocked around by drunks in a bar.

Very Important addition: It doesn't *hiss* just because it's on. (Just don't crank the gain absurdly.) This is a big deal. Do you really want to use a PA speaker for your TB which is hissing into your spot mics? Yikes!
Old 19th April 2019 | Show parent
  #51
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celticrogues's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
The QSC K8 doesn’t hiss just because it’s on either.

-Mike
Old 19th April 2019 | Show parent
  #52
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mpdonahue's Avatar
One or two comments,
1) All the amazon PTT microphones are all latching, which is a patently lousy idea for a talkback microphone. (Nothing worse than feedback or inappropriate comments over the talkback due to the producer not knowing if the switch is latched or not. Many an engineer or producer has been made redundant by having the wrong thing go out over the talkback...)
2) You really want the switch or relay after the microphone preamp. Also, you want to make sure there is no DC offset or your talk will pop every time you press the button. Further, find quiet action switches is harder than you may think. Most click and if your mic is attached to the box with the switch, noise is transmitted acoustically via the air and through vibration. The ideal is a switch that has low bounce, light action, quick release and is large enough for the producer to find without looking, while they are paging through the score. I build a box for our use here at Soundmirror with an electret mic with preamp and compressor/AGC that runs off Phantom. Finding a switch that met the criteria was harder than you think.
As always, YMMV.
All the best,
-mark
Old 19th April 2019 | Show parent
  #53
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpdonahue View Post
One or two comments,
1) All the amazon PTT microphones are all latching, which is a patently lousy idea for a talkback microphone. (Nothing worse than feedback or inappropriate comments over the talkback due to the producer not knowing if the switch is latched or not. Many an engineer or producer has been made redundant by having the wrong thing go out over the talkback...)
Yes. This.

I use Shure MX418D’s as my talkback microphones.

They’re a little more expensive than the Amazon options but they are built really solidly, have quiet, momentary switches, and sound fine. I have 4 of them that have been traveling around with me for 8 years now and they’re still going strong.

-Mike

Last edited by celticrogues; 19th April 2019 at 10:49 PM..
Old 19th April 2019 | Show parent
  #54
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tourtelot's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
The Shure T/B mic looks like the winner. But still, $300.

D.
Old 19th April 2019 | Show parent
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpdonahue View Post
All the amazon PTT microphones are all latching, which is a patently lousy idea for a talkback microphone.
True, that does present potential problems.

D.
Old 20th April 2019 | Show parent
  #56
Gear Maniac
The Bogen DDU250 momentary switch is thankfully noiseless. Recommended if you are OK with a dynamic TB mic (why not?).
Old 20th April 2019 | Show parent
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
I wonder what constitutes a noiseless switch...i
Capacitor network.

D.
Old 20th April 2019
  #58
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🎧 10 years
There's lots of DIY info for making 'popless' mic switches, or 'cough drop' switches as they are known in church PA circles. Here is one I have used. I daresay that the gang in the Geekslutz forum have many suggestions...
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Popless Mic On.pdf (108.2 KB, 134 views)
Old 20th April 2019 | Show parent
  #59
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimjazzdad View Post
There's lots of DIY info for making 'popless' mic switches, or 'cough drop' switches as they are known in church PA circles. Here is one I have used. I daresay that the gang in the Geekslutz forum have many suggestions...
Thank you for that circuit and background info Jim, that would be vital for use with phantom powered mics and electrets. However the small crackle that precedes the announcements in post #42 above (jwh1192),when both opening and closing the Shure dynamic mic switch, doesn't bother me at all.

In fact I reckon some short, quiet signal like that, just prior to talk beginning, is more respectful to preparing the listener than 'sneaking up on them' from total silence. It's analogous to inserting the comms term "over" when handing over to the other speaker. Like walking up behind someone and making a small cough or other noise, when you're aware they would be startled if you began talking without such a social signal.

Small etiquette niceties perhaps, but they help break down the anonymity of that disembodied all-knowing dictator/producer voice booming out across the cathedral from those QSC's.....

Last edited by studer58; 20th April 2019 at 06:27 AM..
Old 20th April 2019 | Show parent
  #60
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1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Thanks Jim for having that available. It is the circuit that I used in my box but had lost the schematic a while ago. I was going to go down today and open up the box and sketch it out for the DIYers on this thread.

A couple of things about this circuit. There is still a little "pop" when you key the mic, and I agree:

"In fact I reckon some short, quiet signal like that, just prior to talk beginning, is more respectful to preparing the listener than 'sneaking up on them' from total silence."

Secondly, this circuit does not mute the mic completely after it is turned off. The output level is very low and I have failed in practical tests to hear anything out of the T/B speaker on stage in this situation, but high-res meter will still show signal.

FW all this IW.

D.
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