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Ableton Vs Sony Acid Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 29th August 2007
  #1
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Question Ableton Vs Sony Acid

Hello all,

I'm using Ableton now for live performances, but getting a bit tired about those negative things in Ableton.
-It can be a CPU hog and if i get past 40% it start clicking and popping.
-Timestretch algo's aren't that good.
-The sound that comes out of the 2 buss sounds dull and lifeless.

Now my question:
Has anyone got some experience with Acid (Sony )?
Does it has a better sound engine than Ableton?
Can you get 80% CPU usage without the clicking and popping?
Is the automatisation as good as Ableton?
Timetrecht algo's?

Thanx
Old 29th August 2007
  #2
jje
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I can't answer your question, but I can chime in that I have Ableton and can hit 80% (and even 90%) without clicking or popping. I usually have my stuff set to a 10 or 20ms delay and I do NOT have a new computer by any stretch of the imagination. Are you using the disc caching? That lets you go over a little bit and still be ok (I've actually hit 200% because of disc caching and that's when I got delays and popping before the spike went away).
Old 29th August 2007
  #3
i use an older sonic foundry version of acid. it's great but i wouldnt use it live.
Old 30th August 2007
  #4
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Dysanfel's Avatar
Both have their ups and downs. Neither is better or worse than the other, just different.
Old 30th August 2007
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jje View Post
I can't answer your question, but I can chime in that I have Ableton and can hit 80% (and even 90%) without clicking or popping. I usually have my stuff set to a 10 or 20ms delay and I do NOT have a new computer by any stretch of the imagination. Are you using the disc caching? That lets you go over a little bit and still be ok (I've actually hit 200% because of disc caching and that's when I got delays and popping before the spike went away).
I usually have my buffer set at 512, cant get it higher because the latency is to big then, and i have 2 controllers hooked to control all kinds of plugin parameters.
I used the disc caché, but that doesn't help either...
I'm usually using between 700MB and 1500MB of audio, so with 512MB of RAM on the laptop it can't go all in the RAM. The audio is stored on a FW drive.
I know a thing or 2 about configuring pc's for audio, so that ain't the problem, windows only uses between 64 and 80MB of RAM depending on the configuration i use.

What version are u using?

I've tried this on 2 different laptops and 2 different pc's and i can't get past 40%

Cheers & thanx
Old 30th August 2007
  #6
512MB?

sounds like a serious RAM upgrade is in order.
Old 30th August 2007
  #7
jje
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I'm on an XP Home (SP2) desktop built from parts. My best recollection tells me I have an AMD 1.25Ghz Athlon XP, I forget the mobo, and 512 RAM. I put it together about three-four years ago. I record to a separate internal drive (I've got four that I switch back and forth on as they fill up and backup on the C drive - they all run at 7200rpm). I don't have XP optimized for audio - just the opposite, I have it maxed out with it set for best visuals and not best performance.

What sample rate are you using? If I'm at 24/88 things do get hairy. If I back it up to 24/48 I'm moving smooth and if I go to 16/44 I can get away with damn near anything.
Old 1st September 2007
  #8
theother
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Hey I'm an expert in the Ableton/ACID field!

ACID sounds so much better it's ridiculous!

You can't stretch a solo instrument like acoustic guitar or bass properly in Ableton. You have so tweak many parameters and it never sounds right.

In ACID it sounds always right. Without tweaking anything. It's magic!

Now I wanted to use ACID with Cubase/Nuendo and for many many years you couldn't sync them properly and ACID had no Re-Wire/slave option.

For this reason alone I had to work with Ableton but the results were really frustrating.

Now that ACID Pro is Re-Wire Slave capable I'm very happy with it!
Old 1st September 2007
  #9
Nobody beat the streching capabilities , sound and precision of ACID PRO....and also worksflow is great.....but the MIDI kind of sucks!

I wish any other software would have the ease of manipulating and previewing loops as Acid....all the other programs are just begginers on that field!! Acid makes look Pro tools like a primitive program in the Looping field...and Ableton a ok pretender!!

Acid is king on this Loop and time strenching audio field!
Old 1st September 2007
  #10
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Thanx TheOther & Amiel!

Those are the aswers i wanted to hear actually.
I couldn't believe there was nothing better than Ableton for streching.
For instruments or non electronic music Ableton sucked sooooooo much.

What about midi control? Can you easely control plugins and faders with a midi controller?

Cheers
Old 2nd June 2012
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMIEL View Post
Nobody beat the streching capabilities , sound and precision of ACID PRO....and also worksflow is great.....but the MIDI kind of sucks!

I wish any other software would have the ease of manipulating and previewing loops as Acid....all the other programs are just begginers on that field!! Acid makes look Pro tools like a primitive program in the Looping field...and Ableton a ok pretender!!

Acid is king on this Loop and time strenching audio field!
i use acid and ableton. acid is my prefered since that what i started on. it does great time stretching, all my vsts and editors work flawlessly.but ableton does alot acid cant. i have found that its best to just use both
Old 2nd June 2012
  #12
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by backplay View Post
I usually have my buffer set at 512, cant get it higher because the latency is to big then, and i have 2 controllers hooked to control all kinds of plugin parameters.
I used the disc caché, but that doesn't help either...
I'm usually using between 700MB and 1500MB of audio, so with 512MB of RAM on the laptop it can't go all in the RAM. The audio is stored on a FW drive.
I know a thing or 2 about configuring pc's for audio, so that ain't the problem, windows only uses between 64 and 80MB of RAM depending on the configuration i use.

What version are u using?

I've tried this on 2 different laptops and 2 different pc's and i can't get past 40%

Cheers & thanx
your main issue is the lack of ram. ableton uses the **** out of it so if you upgrade your ram you will see a big difference in your daw. i have 8gigs of ram on my daw workhorse. 512mb aint enuff. maybe 20 years ago but by todays standard not even close.
Old 10th August 2012
  #13
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Have Acid but thinking about switching

I figured I would piggy back on this post instead of starting a new one. I have been using Acid Pro since Sonic Foundry in 2002 and being a sample based producer it has always been my DAW of choice because of the magic it works with loops. It has always had it short comings on MIDI in my experience. I recently purchased Maschine for hands on workflow but when I work the 2 together, Acid crashes. Sony doesnt even seem to really care about Acid any more and I am considering a switch to Live but I dont need most of the added features it offers over Acid just greater overall stability and parent company that gives a damn. Suggestions please.
Old 2nd November 2012
  #14
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acid

Hi

I am a composer and have been using acid for several years. I can confirm that with acid you get the best time-stretching algorythms, and in fact the software is aimed precisely for synchronisation.

I don't know about ableton, but one possible drawback of Acid is that you have to get good VSTs to do EQs and mastering. But the WAVES collection works just fine and completes the software admirably.

The main reason I use Acid over any other software is its stability and CPU use. Its programming being based on the windows architecture (.NET), I can go up to 250 tracks without any problems. However I do agree I would not use it for MIDI (I never do anyway, my work is all audio-based).

You can listen to my music wich is all done on Acid : www.totalnormal.tk

Cheers
Old 31st December 2012
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Total Normal View Post
Hi

I am a composer and have been using acid for several years. I can confirm that with acid you get the best time-stretching algorythms, and in fact the software is aimed precisely for synchronisation.

I don't know about ableton, but one possible drawback of Acid is that you have to get good VSTs to do EQs and mastering. But the WAVES collection works just fine and completes the software admirably.

The main reason I use Acid over any other software is its stability and CPU use. Its programming being based on the windows architecture (.NET), I can go up to 250 tracks without any problems. However I do agree I would not use it for MIDI (I never do anyway, my work is all audio-based).

You can listen to my music wich is all done on Acid : www.totalnormal.tk

Cheers
I'm considering getting acid, FL, and reaper because of their different ways of creating music- question:

1. can you do a lot with the 3000 loops Acid says they supply with Pro 7 or do you really need to buy a lot more from Acid? How much do you really have to spend to make it worthwhile?

2. Can you use 3rd party acidized samples and loops with Acid- like something you could buy off of ebay- or do youhave to buy Sony stuff?

thanks

BTW- your music is really original
Old 31st December 2012
  #16
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Get acid pro 7 and soundforge 10 and you'll be unstoppable
Old 1st January 2013
  #17
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I also noticed that there are a lot of sample packs out there on ebay that say they play with Ableton- does this mean they load into Ableton's sampler (called simpler I think)?
Old 9th May 2013
  #18
Gear Maniac
 

tons of acidized loops out there Big Fish Audio | Music Loops, Drum Loops and Virtual Instruments is the best place to start high,high,high,and mean high quality loops

to chop up or just layout

mix and match or whatever I love Acid Pro

try adding FL Studio as a VST to Acid Pro to add MIDI functionality to your production workflow works like a charm

-Coach Antonio
Old 9th May 2013
  #19
Acid was awesome until Sony took over. The ship has been sinking ever since.
Old 1st June 2013
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lune View Post
I'm considering getting acid, FL, and reaper because of their different ways of creating music- question:

1. can you do a lot with the 3000 loops Acid says they supply with Pro 7 or do you really need to buy a lot more from Acid? How much do you really have to spend to make it worthwhile?

2. Can you use 3rd party acidized samples and loops with Acid- like something you could buy off of ebay- or do youhave to buy Sony stuff?

thanks

BTW- your music is really original
Hi

I never use the Acid loops. It all depends on what kind of music you are doing really, but those packageswill make you sound like everybody else. If you are doing music for money (tv or film , etc), then they would be good.

Yes you can use 3rd party samples. If they are acidized all the better, but you can also do that step yourself with the ACID tools in sound forge.
Old 21st August 2013
  #21
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Pretty much any sample pack you buy now a days will be very much usable in every DAW. If you stick to just WAV or AIFF files you pretty much have the basic roots there. They're just raw, lossless audio files to chop, mix and mangle to your hearts content.
Most packs these days have tons of options when buying too. You can get files made for specific samplers, even Ableton Lives samplers. So you can literally load them from within your sampler and it fills everything out for you, nice and organized.
There is nothing wrong with using samples and loops in your tracks. Just make sure you have some original content in there too. Even if that only means you have cut up a loop and arranged it differently. It is now a new loop that you have made your own. Transpose some pieces and add some fx and its even more yours.

There are tons of sound mangling plugs around today. You can literally turn ANY sound into soo many other sounds and really wild, cool completely different sounds too. Its crazy...and its crazy fun!!
Old 21st August 2013
  #22
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Having said that, you definitely want to look into getting or at least demoing some VST Instruments otherwise known as soft synths. Your DAW will have software synths built right into it too and some are great but if you can get to know some of the third party synths really well...they will get you a more specific sound. That's why demoing them before you buy them is always a very good idea. They will have tons of presets packaged with them that will give you a very good idea of what kind of "sound" that particular synth has.

Every synth definitely has its own character, some impart this character on the sound it generates more than others (sounds kinda strange I know but you'll see what I mean ). Some you'll find you fall in love with and find the controls very easy to manage while others will leave you baffled and won't really agree with you as much. Additive synthesis is a great place to start because remains one of the most basic and classic ways synths work and they are very easy to learn...just start twiddling knobs as intelligently as you can and read everything you stumble across about synthesis and sound design. Given the right tools, know how and experience...before long you'll be able to recreate those sounds you hear in your head with precision that grows by the day.
Everyone has their opinions and ideas about the perfect synth so its definitely something you want to figure out on your own. It's also a step in the right direction for finding your own sound. With a few synths each using a different type of synthesis you can create just about any sound you can think of and much much more. Be it reality based and organic in nature or completely crazy future space sounding ****!! lol

Definitely start by playing with the synths that come bundled with your DAW, thats always a good place to start to get the basics down. Read a little on the subject. Then when you're fairly comfortable with how things work go grab some demos and try those out.

Some of my favorites:
Lennar Digital - Sylenth1. A beloved classic additive synth that I load up again and again...and again and again. Awesome sound and very easy to get to know.

Native Instruments - Massive. Wavetable synth that will blow you away if you're looking for aggressive sounds. Hell Massive does just about everything really really well so its a very good buy. Very popular among modern electronic music producers. I find it very easy to use too.

Native Instruments - FM8. Frequency Modulation synth that has a ridiculous amount of possibilities. This is a staggering synth...fm synthesis is not really a beginners form of synthesis but that is not to say you shoulldn't give it a go. FM might be your niche and you might find you understand it perfectly! It can be daunting though so don't let it intimidate you, just learn the signal flow and go from there.

U-he - Ace. Very nice sound and fairly easy to get around the UI to boot. You'll like it.

U-he - Diva. Absolutely gorgeous sound comes of this bitch. I mean huge stunning sound. Beautifully designed synth. All that analog modeling they did comes with a hefty price though....she's a CPU HOG! And I do mean HOG. Never seen a synth use up cycles like Diva does...but it does have a quality setting so you can tame it down to something your system can handle.

Then there are all kinds of options, obviously..the market is completely saturated with synths. You can go crazy weird to super standard and everything in between.

Rob Papen makes great stuff, all of Native Instruments stuff is absolute gold. Synapse Audio - Dune is pretty cool, Dmitry Sches - Diversion is awesome. U-he - Zebra is awesome. Arturia V2 stuff is great for having those classic old really expensive synths right on your hard drive and sound damn good too. Alchemy AE, Sugar Bytes - Cyclop is a new form of synthesis that is pretty cool. Just started playing with that one not long ago. I literally could go on for days and days. lol Someone else will come along and name a bunch that I really shouldn't have left off of any list that I've forgotten at the moment I'm sure but...there is plenty of meat to chew off this bone anyway! heh

Damn...I got a tad carried away there...I love this ****, I tend to overindulge!!
Hopefully I didn't just spew all this for nothing since I'm sure most all of us know just about all of this stuff....

Hopefully that helps somebody anyway.
Old 22nd August 2013
  #23
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I started out with trackers, then went to Acid (Sonic Foundry back then) and used it for years.. then switched to Ableton and the first thing I noticed was the degeneration of quality and how stuff didn't sound as good with the same samples used (please don't tell me it's placebo, because it isn't).

So much nostalgia, Acid used to be on top of the game but is now SERIOUSLY outdated. The biggest mistake they ever made was selling out to Sony and like Electric Blue said, the boat has been sinking ever since.
Old 19th March 2014
  #24
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A quick follow-up on the subject : I have been using Acid for years, and just found a very annoying bug today. Thought I'd share as it might save time for someone...

I got crashes repeatedly on a new project, and after spending the day searching for the cause, I found out that Acid does not like certain vst effects on track insert. The vst in question is cytomic's the glue. I can use it in send or bus as much as I want, but if I put it on track fx it just crashes Acid - on playback or even on render; wich is weird.

There's no explaining it, but I have seen on other forums that certain vst crash Acid when put on track fx
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