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Ableton LIVE "chain selector filters MIDI ctrl" doesn't work as intended
Old 6th September 2019
  #1
Gear Addict
 
Calagan's Avatar
 

Ableton LIVE "chain selector filters MIDI ctrl" doesn't work as intended

Hi there

Short story : I'm using Live 9.7.7 (but will probably upgrade soon to Live 10), and I'm encountering a problem I find completly absurd : the option "chain selector filters MIDI ctrl" doesn't seem to work at all for me.
I doesn't filter midi CC messages sent from a controller, and when I tweak a knob sending CC5 (for exemple) it's sending this CC5 message all around my racks whatever the chain selector settings.

Long story : I'm using Live on stage. My live set consists in many scenes, each launching a song (wav clips, midi clips, VSTi etc. etc.).
Each scene launches midi clips that set a specific chain for each song in the chain selector (chain 1 for song 1, chain 2 for song 2... etc. etc.). To each chain corresponds a rack of devices (synth, FX, etc. etc.) that I play during the song.
But for the moment it lacks real time manipulation of synths : I play notes on my keyboard, but I don't tweak the sound in real time (i.e. sending CC messages)...

So I would like to use a controller (for exemple the Behringer X-Touch mini, featuring 8 knobs) with a very simple set up (knob 1 = CC1, knob 2 = CC2 etc. etc.) and manipulate each active VSTi with this controller inside of each active rack (by active rack, I mean a rack activated by a specific chain).
Each VSTi device would be set by midi learn so CC1 (for exemple) will have different effect for each device (for exemple CC1 will control feedback in device 1 of song 1, cutoff filter in device 2 on song 1, volume in device 3 on song 3).

But even when I click on "chain selector filters MIDI ctrl" in the chain selector window, the midi CC sent by my controller is received by each rack, whatever the active chain. So if I try to set up a Live set this way, I end up with a terrible mess : when I tweak the volume on device 1 in song 1, it tweaks at the same time the cutoff in device 2 in song 2, the resonance in device 3 in song 3 etc. etc..

Actually, I don't understand at all where is the problem and why the filtering of MIDI CC is not working...

Do you experience the same issue ?
Did I miss something ?
Is there an elegant solution somewhere ?

I could use this marvelous little M4L device : Manual CC mapper from JGJP
https://www.maxforlive.com/library/d...nual-cc-mapper
But I would like to keep my Live set as simple as possible (it's already very complex) and as light as possible. So I'm not exactly super fan of putting a M4L device in front of each rack just for something that should be a basic feature of the chain selector function.
Old 7th September 2019
  #2
Gear Addict
 
Calagan's Avatar
 

Any insight ?
Old 7th September 2019
  #3
Gear Maniac
MIDI Assign is "remote control", it is not MIDI CC inside the track.

MIDI Assign and other remote control options intercept the MIDI CC before a track's input, that MIDI CC doesn't get sent into the track's signal flow at all.

https://www.ableton.com/en/manual/mi...remote-control
Old 7th September 2019
  #4
Gear Addict
 
Calagan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pottering View Post
MIDI Assign is "remote control", it is not MIDI CC inside the track.

MIDI Assign and other remote control options intercept the MIDI CC before a track's input, that MIDI CC doesn't get sent into the track's signal flow at all.
mmm...

Thanks for the answer, actually it makes sense.
But if so, what's the point of the "chain selector filters MIDI ctrl" option ? Because since I'm using Live I don't see any use for that (the CC automations are anyway linked to a chain or a specific rack)...

And more important, is there any way to filter theses damned CC messages exactly like the midi notes are (so I can actually use Live as the live daw it is supposed to be, and not as a "live launcher" of wav clips with some simple midi features) ?

I guess the only way will be to use this M4L device...
It is quite crazy to be dependant on devices created by users like you and me and given for free, just to bypass such evident limitations of a commercial software existing since years...
Old 7th September 2019
  #5
Gear Addict
 
Calagan's Avatar
 

Actually, re-reading your post and the link provided, my problem is absolutely not related to midi assign or remote control.

I'm speaking about "midi learning" inside 3d party vsti : for exemple in the u-He synths Diva and Repro-5. So the midi learning is absolutely not part of Live, but takes place directly in the 3D party vsti.

In this case, the CC message is supposed to follow the same path as midi notes before being "read" by the VSTi.

If so, why is it not filtered ?
Old 7th September 2019
  #6
Gear Maniac
I don't have any VST installed currently so I don't know.

Are you seeing the yellow "led" that shows the MIDI CC flow?

They are show before and after the Racks and also in the Chains.

Oh wait, just saw a weird buggy behaviour here (I'm on Live 10 beta actually).

I duped a Chain, the duped Chain was not filtering the CC, had to disable then re-enable the "filter CC" option for it to work.

Seems new Chains are created with that option off, despite being enabled for the Rack.

Maybe disabling then re-enabling works for you in 9.x too?
Old 8th September 2019
  #7
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Thanks a lot pottering for your help.

You're true, there is a strange thing going on with this feature : this morning I wanted to try your "trick", but actually the midi ctrl filtering was working directly (without the enable/disable/enable trick).
I just enabled it by clicking right on the chain selector window, and this time the CC messages were filtered by the chains.



Why it didn't work yesterday ?
And why it did work this morning ?
Is it a bug, or something else ?

I will experiment more and try to investigate...
Old 9th September 2019
  #8
Gear Addict
 
Calagan's Avatar
 

It may be related to the order in which things are done (which would be anyway a kind of bug).

I'll try two ways this morning if I've got a moment :
- creating the rack and few chains in it, and then enabling midi ctrl filtering
- enabling midi ctrl filtering, and then creating the chains in the rack
Old 9th September 2019
  #9
Gear Maniac
Quote:
- creating the rack and few chains in it, and then enabling midi ctrl filtering
Works OK here.

Quote:
- enabling midi ctrl filtering, and then creating the chains in the rack
Here Chains created after enabling filtering don't filter, got to disable and re-enable filtering for it to work. I think it is a bug too, going to report it.
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