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Ableton Live 10 Effects vs Third Party Effects
Old 6th September 2019
  #1
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Konsider's Avatar
Ableton Live 10 Effects vs Third Party Effects

Hi everyone

I have Ableton Live 10 Suite, and am learning how to mix and master tracks. I was wondering, which of Ableton’s effects (EQ, reverb, compressor, etc) are considered fine to use, and which third party plugins are a must have?

I see there is a plethora of options like Waves, Izotope, Toneboosters, Fabfilter, etc… are these worth getting if you already have Ableton’s built-in effects? Is there a massive difference between the options? How about their CPU usage compared to Ableton?

Many thanks for any info
Old 6th September 2019
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Konsider View Post
Hi everyone

I have Ableton Live 10 Suite, and am learning how to mix and master tracks. I was wondering, which of Ableton’s effects (EQ, reverb, compressor, etc) are considered fine to use, and which third party plugins are a must have?

I see there is a plethora of options like Waves, Izotope, Toneboosters, Fabfilter, etc… are these worth getting if you already have Ableton’s built-in effects? Is there a massive difference between the options? How about their CPU usage compared to Ableton?
In most cases Live's native effects devices are very effective. That doesn't mean a carefully chosen third party plug-in will use a lot more, but that some will.

Basically for EQ duties you will come a long way with EQ-8 and Channel EQ, for compression the duo Compressor and Glue (which is also a third party plug-in) will do a great job and on a buss, you might like "Drum Buss".

You might want to look into another product for side-chained bass-rich sounds as there's occasionally a click with either of Compressor (rare though) or Glue (even more rare) when side-chaining. There are some great third party Compressor plug-ins that are available in a free version and have side-chaining. For example I use TDR Nova, which is a EQ for ducking the bass region. Nova does use more CPU, but I only use one sub bass so that's fine. Melda's free MCompressor does have side-chaining, but I haven't used that particular one.

The one thing you might want to replace is the native Reverb that, if you have my taste, you'd agree needs another solution. One solution for some reverb types is to use the Max For Live Convolution Reverb and Convolution Reverb Pro, that you already have (It's in Suite because you have Max For Live with that), but likely you want an algorithmic one.

I think an algorithmic reverb is worth paying extra for and I can't think of any free ones right now. It's very much a taste thing, so I'd start with what you got now and look around and test drive a bunch over a longer period. I won't recommend my choices for this. But you'll probably find at least a dozen contenders.
Old 6th September 2019
  #3
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Konsider's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael B View Post
In most cases Live's native effects devices are very effective. That doesn't mean a carefully chosen third party plug-in will use a lot more, but that some will.

Basically for EQ duties you will come a long way with EQ-8 and Channel EQ, for compression the duo Compressor and Glue (which is also a third party plug-in) will do a great job and on a buss, you might like "Drum Buss".

You might want to look into another product for side-chained bass-rich sounds as there's occasionally a click with either of Compressor (rare though) or Glue (even more rare) when side-chaining. There are some great third party Compressor plug-ins that are available in a free version and have side-chaining. For example I use TDR Nova, which is a EQ for ducking the bass region. Nova does use more CPU, but I only use one sub bass so that's fine. Melda's free MCompressor does have side-chaining, but I haven't used that particular one.

The one thing you might want to replace is the native Reverb that, if you have my taste, you'd agree needs another solution. One solution for some reverb types is to use the Max For Live Convolution Reverb and Convolution Reverb Pro, that you already have (It's in Suite because you have Max For Live with that), but likely you want an algorithmic one.

I think an algorithmic reverb is worth paying extra for and I can't think of any free ones right now. It's very much a taste thing, so I'd start with what you got now and look around and test drive a bunch over a longer period. I won't recommend my choices for this. But you'll probably find at least a dozen contenders.
That is some great advice there, thank you very much! I am going to look into all the links you provided. I can see you are possibly more of an EDM producer? I was wondering, does the same advice hold true for a more orchestral production?

For example, would algorithmic reverb be preferable to convolution reverb for strings, piano, etc?
Old 6th September 2019
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Konsider View Post

For example, would algorithmic reverb be preferable to convolution reverb for strings, piano, etc?
I'd think you cannot say categorically like that. These are just different, mostly being that with an algorithmic you have more detailed control and with convolution you get realistic rooms with warts and all. I like both. They just have different jobs. There is considerable overlap too.

I think my advice here stands for any genre. Personally I've moved away from using the native EQs but that's mostly because I prefer others, not that the native ones I mentioned are subpar.
Old 6th September 2019
  #5
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Konsider's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael B View Post
I'd think you cannot say categorically like that. These are just different, mostly being that with an algorithmic you have more detailed control and with convolution you get realistic rooms with warts and all. I like both. They just have different jobs. There is considerable overlap too.

I think my advice here stands for any genre. Personally I've moved away from using the native EQs but that's mostly because I prefer others, not that the native ones I mentioned are subpar.
Ah, I see, thanks for that. Yep, I will explore the items you mentioned, along with some others and basically try out as much as I can. Thank you again for taking the time to give me your advice - I appreciate it
Old 6th September 2019
  #6
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael B View Post
In most cases Live's native effects devices are very effective. That doesn't mean a carefully chosen third party plug-in will use a lot more, but that some will.

Basically for EQ duties you will come a long way with EQ-8 and Channel EQ, for compression the duo Compressor and Glue (which is also a third party plug-in) will do a great job and on a buss, you might like "Drum Buss".

You might want to look into another product for side-chained bass-rich sounds as there's occasionally a click with either of Compressor (rare though) or Glue (even more rare) when side-chaining. There are some great third party Compressor plug-ins that are available in a free version and have side-chaining. For example I use TDR Nova, which is a EQ for ducking the bass region. Nova does use more CPU, but I only use one sub bass so that's fine. Melda's free MCompressor does have side-chaining, but I haven't used that particular one.

The one thing you might want to replace is the native Reverb that, if you have my taste, you'd agree needs another solution. One solution for some reverb types is to use the Max For Live Convolution Reverb and Convolution Reverb Pro, that you already have (It's in Suite because you have Max For Live with that), but likely you want an algorithmic one.

I think an algorithmic reverb is worth paying extra for and I can't think of any free ones right now. It's very much a taste thing, so I'd start with what you got now and look around and test drive a bunch over a longer period. I won't recommend my choices for this. But you'll probably find at least a dozen contenders.
My intent here is to not come across as a smart-ass! I'm just another Ableton guy trying to help out! Perhaps the above user has preferred 3rd party tools for side-chaining FX, and doesn't like how the Ableton compressors react?

I figured I'd state this: the side-chaining will only 'click' if you have your attack and release set too quickly (as bass signals are usually the most powerful/highest amplitude in the mix). Setup the side-chain compression time constants to whatever fits the track.

I actually love Ableton's side-chaining functionality, and see nothing wrong with the included compressors.

Third party stuff is also great, but Ableton's included plugins are top notch. My goal here is to save you money; spend those hard-earned dollars on microphones, instruments and outboard. The Ableton Live Suite package has more than enough to tackle the ITB duties.

Cheers,

Phil
Old 6th September 2019
  #7
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Konsider's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Palaver View Post
My intent here is to not come across as a smart-ass! I'm just another Ableton guy trying to help out! Perhaps the above user has preferred 3rd party tools for side-chaining FX, and doesn't like how the Ableton compressors react?

I figured I'd state this: the side-chaining will only 'click' if you have your attack and release set too quickly (as bass signals are usually the most powerful/highest amplitude in the mix). Setup the side-chain compression time constants to whatever fits the track.

I actually love Ableton's side-chaining functionality, and see nothing wrong with the included compressors.

Third party stuff is also great, but Ableton's included plugins are top notch. My goal here is to save you money; spend those hard-earned dollars on microphones, instruments and outboard. The Ableton Live Suite package has more than enough to tackle the ITB duties.

Cheers,

Phil
Thanks very much for your input!

I do have that dilemma of deciding if third party plugins are needed or wanted based on their cost and usefulness. I just wondered if there are some of the famous plugins from the likes of Waves, Izotope, Toneboosters, Fabfilter, etc that are considered "must-haves", you know?
Old 6th September 2019
  #8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Konsider View Post
Thanks very much for your input!

I do have that dilemma of deciding if third party plugins are needed or wanted based on their cost and usefulness. I just wondered if there are some of the famous plugins from the likes of Waves, Izotope, Toneboosters, Fabfilter, etc that are considered "must-haves", you know?
I have all of Izotope and FabFilter's plugins. I love Neutron Advanced 3 (as the presets and AI tool are great educational pieces in their own right) and Fabfilter's PRO2 Limiter. But, you certainly don't need them. I'd argue that the additional options will hamper creativity.

Plus, Ableton's internal plugins are extraordinarily efficient. Your track count and CPU efficiency is way higher if you limit yourself to Ableton's internal stuff (as they've optimized it).

Throw the money on a nice EV RE-20 or SM7b microphone. Or get a nice pair of speakers. If you have Logic or Ableton as a DAW, you can quit with buying 3rd party plugins.

If timing/track doubling is an issue, you MAY want to look into REVOICE as they have some amazing alignment tools (if you're stacking tons of vocal tracks or guitars or need to correct a 'off-pitch' take).

Here's what I recommend: finish whatever it is your working on using only Ableton's internal plugins. Then, after you finished the project, think about what was clumsy or time-consuming (in Ableton) and buy the tools that alleviate the issue. Black Friday deals will be here in a couple of months and sort it out at that point.., but not before you actually finish something. This is a great little 'rule' to help save money and increase productivity.

Cheers,

-Phil
Old 6th September 2019
  #9
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Konsider's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Palaver View Post
I have all of Izotope and FabFilter's plugins. I love Neutron Advanced 3 (as the presets and AI tool are great educational pieces in their own right) and Fabfilter's PRO2 Limiter. But, you certainly don't need them. I'd argue that the additional options will hamper creativity.

Plus, Ableton's internal plugins are extraordinarily efficient. Your track count and CPU efficiency is way higher if you limit yourself to Ableton's internal stuff (as they've optimized it).

Throw the money on a nice EV RE-20 or SM7b microphone. Or get a nice pair of speakers. If you have Logic or Ableton as a DAW, you can quit with buying 3rd party plugins.

If timing/track doubling is an issue, you MAY want to look into REVOICE as they have some amazing alignment tools (if you're stacking tons of vocal tracks or guitars or need to correct a 'off-pitch' take).

Here's what I recommend: finish whatever it is your working on using only Ableton's internal plugins. Then, after you finished the project, think about what was clumsy or time-consuming (in Ableton) and buy the tools that alleviate the issue. Black Friday deals will be here in a couple of months and sort it out at that point.., but not before you actually finish something. This is a great little 'rule' to help save money and increase productivity.

Cheers,

-Phil
That really is fantastic advice! It makes complete sense to approach things in that way, and it is interesting to hear your thoughts regarding the CPU usage too.

I intend to do more orchestral-based tracks, so CPU usage will definitely be a concern. To hear that using Ableton's plugins will alleviate the situation somewhat is good to know.

I will look into those plugins you mentioned, and will approach things like you said i.e. start off using Ableton's and see if anything feels like it needs to be upgraded or improved after I have worked on some tracks.

Many thanks for your advice!
Old 6th September 2019
  #10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Konsider View Post
That really is fantastic advice! It makes complete sense to approach things in that way, and it is interesting to hear your thoughts regarding the CPU usage too.

I intend to do more orchestral-based tracks, so CPU usage will definitely be a concern. To hear that using Ableton's plugins will alleviate the situation somewhat is good to know.

I will look into those plugins you mentioned, and will approach things like you said i.e. start off using Ableton's and see if anything feels like it needs to be upgraded or improved after I have worked on some tracks.

Many thanks for your advice!
Some of Ableton's software instruments on their site may be a great way to go about orchestral stuff. They got a page where you can buy additional stuff and packs (for efficiency). I really want that new SPITFIRE BBC orchestra, but I could see something like that crippling a DAW.

You should really watch Ty Unwin. He has a great Sonic State interview where he mixes tons of different string libraries (into layers) for his orchestral sounds. It should really help you out as orchestral stuff is his lane.

Cheers,

-Phil
Old 8th September 2019
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Palaver View Post
My intent here is to not come across as a smart-ass!
Whatever gave you the idea that your relevant and factual observations would be regarded as unwelcome by anyone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Palaver View Post
I figured I'd state this: the side-chaining will only 'click' if you have your attack and release set too quickly (as bass signals are usually the most powerful/highest amplitude in the mix). Setup the side-chain compression time constants to whatever fits the track.
This is actually not always true in practice. The few times I did experience this — maybe that's 10-15 times — with both Compressor and Glue (just a couple times) adjusting attack or release did not make much of a difference at all. Changing to one of my plug-in compressors always fixed the issue and that at similar or faster attacks and release, indicating to me the attack or release settings weren't part of the issue.

Other settings are also part of the complete response of course, but actually I have never been able to get another compressor to "click" and being unable to adjust that with attack or release. Anyway, as I said this is a quite rare issue to begin with. I occasionally still use both Compressor and Glue with SC and the most common experience is there are no clicking issues. Of course I do gain stage.

Last edited by Mikael B; 8th September 2019 at 03:25 PM..
Old 8th September 2019
  #12
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Konsider View Post
I just wondered if there are some of the famous plugins from the likes of Waves, Izotope, Toneboosters, Fabfilter, etc that are considered "must-haves", you know?
Before you purchase any of those I'd suggest you take a close look at Airwindows during a longer period. Longer because there are so many plug-ins and what they do is quite unique. Check the bottom left "Kinds Of Things" for finding the gems. For your kind of music I'd look at for example "ButterComp2" first. Some listed plug-ins have been surpassed later, some are experiments, so it's a good idea to be aware of the history.

Quote:
"Airwindows is about listening. It’s about the sound being far more exciting than looking at the screen, because that’s all your audience will have to go by.
If you get good feelings, it had better be about what you hear! The plugins naturally lend themselves to MIDI control, assigning sliders to control surfaces. Doing that, you can mix without watching pixels, and listen without being distracted by nonsounds."
Old 8th September 2019
  #13
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Konsider's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael B View Post
Before you purchase any of those I'd suggest you take a close look at Airwindows during a longer period. Longer because there are so many plug-ins and what they do is quite unique. Check the bottom left "Kinds Of Things" for finding the gems. For your kind of music I'd look at for example "ButterComp2" first. Some listed plug-ins have been surpassed later, some are experiments, so it's a good idea to be aware of the history.
That's awesome, thanks! They seem quite different, with a minimalist style. I will definitely look into them! Thanks again
Old 8th September 2019
  #14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael B View Post
Whatever gave you the idea that your relevant and factual observations would be regarded as unwelcome by anyone?



This is actually not always true in practice. The few times I did experience this — maybe that's 10-15 times — with both Compressor and Glue (just a couple times) adjusting attack or release did not make much of a difference at all. Changing to one of my plug-in compressors always fixed the issue and that at similar or faster attacks and release, indicating to me the attack or release settings weren't part of the issue.

Other settings are also part of the complete response of course, but actually I have never been able to get another compressor to "click" and being unable to adjust that with attack or release. Anyway, as I said this is a quite rare issue to begin with. I occasionally still use both Compressor and Glue with SC and the most common experience is there are no clicking issues. Of course I do gain stage.
It’s nice to have a reasonable conversation on GS! I guess one of the points we’re trying to make to the OP is to learn the pros & cons of tools you already own. The other point is: half the fun is in the journey of what improves the workflow.

My preferences may not work for you and vice versa.

I’m personally looking forward to following this thread.

-Phil
Old 8th September 2019
  #15
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Calagan's Avatar
 

From my own experience (that is by no means a model), there are few other things to consider :

- some third party plugins are much better than the stock plugins from Live. They have more features or sound better.
For exemple, my mixing life changed when I bought Equick from DMG Audio (clean digital tool, perfectly crafted, very quick to work with. Some will say all eq sound the same, but to me this EQ sounds better)... The limiter from DMG Audio is another tool that is 100 times superior to the limiter in Live (I speak about Live 9, I don't know what they improved with Live 10).
And all the Tokyo Dawn Lab stuff is absolutely great, and can be used for free if you stick to the non-gentleman line (Nova is wonderful, and doesn't have any equivalent in Live)...

- Some third party plugins cover a ground that is not covered at all by the Live stock plugins. For exemple the Soundtoys bundle (very creative dirty stuff), or many colored analog emulations.

- Negative aspect of all that is of course the price to pay (that could be invested better in acoustics or hardware gear), but too the fact that having too much tools without mastering any of them is absolutely useless and makes the learning path harder.

- And for even more contradictory advice, I actually learned a lot just by using different plugins, so by expanding my tool box : just for take one exemple, compressors are all differents (even digital ones) and by using a lot of them, you start to figure out what you like and don't like in compression, and start to figure out what to do with a compressor (or with a compressor of a specific kind).

All that said, the stock plugins in Live are generally great (EQ is cool, compressors are great, the new Live 10 FX looks nice) and you can make very good work with these tools.
But a lot of them are not very good (the limiter for exemple) or have a sound of their own (the multiband compressor is quite dirty but has very nices features : it works on some stuff, not on others).

There are of course better tools in the outside world, and the most complicated thing in my opinion is to balance the necessary slow learning path (know how to master the tools you've got already) with the experimentation with new tools that brings something better.

Actually, only you can decide what tool you need and what tool is better than another, but this judgment can only be made by contradictory or dialectic moves :
- on one side, you need to master the tools you have and keep working only with them
- on another side, you need to experiment with some new tools and expand your craft to new territories

I guess the best thing to do is to start only with stock plugins, and follow the advice of Palaver : just buy (after some time) something that Live stock plugins didn't cover (or didn't do good) in your previous work...
Old 8th September 2019
  #16
Here for the gear
 

Hey man! Long-time user of both Live and Logic here. The stock plugins in Live are great, but as others have mentioned, there are some better options out there. Especially the limiter could use a retouch. Learn the stock plugins as much as you can, and further down the road you will realize what needs you want to have covered that the stock plugins does not provide. Good luck on your journey!
Old 9th September 2019
  #17
Gear Head
 
Konsider's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calagan View Post
From my own experience (that is by no means a model), there are few other things to consider :

- some third party plugins are much better than the stock plugins from Live. They have more features or sound better.
For exemple, my mixing life changed when I bought Equick from DMG Audio (clean digital tool, perfectly crafted, very quick to work with. Some will say all eq sound the same, but to me this EQ sounds better)... The limiter from DMG Audio is another tool that is 100 times superior to the limiter in Live (I speak about Live 9, I don't know what they improved with Live 10).
And all the Tokyo Dawn Lab stuff is absolutely great, and can be used for free if you stick to the non-gentleman line (Nova is wonderful, and doesn't have any equivalent in Live)...

- Some third party plugins cover a ground that is not covered at all by the Live stock plugins. For exemple the Soundtoys bundle (very creative dirty stuff), or many colored analog emulations.

- Negative aspect of all that is of course the price to pay (that could be invested better in acoustics or hardware gear), but too the fact that having too much tools without mastering any of them is absolutely useless and makes the learning path harder.

- And for even more contradictory advice, I actually learned a lot just by using different plugins, so by expanding my tool box : just for take one exemple, compressors are all differents (even digital ones) and by using a lot of them, you start to figure out what you like and don't like in compression, and start to figure out what to do with a compressor (or with a compressor of a specific kind).

All that said, the stock plugins in Live are generally great (EQ is cool, compressors are great, the new Live 10 FX looks nice) and you can make very good work with these tools.
But a lot of them are not very good (the limiter for exemple) or have a sound of their own (the multiband compressor is quite dirty but has very nices features : it works on some stuff, not on others).

There are of course better tools in the outside world, and the most complicated thing in my opinion is to balance the necessary slow learning path (know how to master the tools you've got already) with the experimentation with new tools that brings something better.

Actually, only you can decide what tool you need and what tool is better than another, but this judgment can only be made by contradictory or dialectic moves :
- on one side, you need to master the tools you have and keep working only with them
- on another side, you need to experiment with some new tools and expand your craft to new territories

I guess the best thing to do is to start only with stock plugins, and follow the advice of Palaver : just buy (after some time) something that Live stock plugins didn't cover (or didn't do good) in your previous work...

Some excellent advice there, thanks

Can I just ask you to clarify a couple of points, please? You mention that you feel the DMG Audio EQ "sounds better"... do you mean your final mix ended up sounded better after you had used that plugin to mix it?

Also, do you find your CPU is taxed more with the third-party plugins, versus the stock plugins?

Thanks again for the advice, I will certainly be looking into the plugins you mentioned
Old 9th September 2019
  #18
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Konsider's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Berba View Post
Hey man! Long-time user of both Live and Logic here. The stock plugins in Live are great, but as others have mentioned, there are some better options out there. Especially the limiter could use a retouch. Learn the stock plugins as much as you can, and further down the road you will realize what needs you want to have covered that the stock plugins does not provide. Good luck on your journey!
Thanks Berba, I appreciate it It does seem like the general advice is to start that way then maybe try other plugins in the future
Old 18th September 2019
  #19
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Calagan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Konsider View Post
Some excellent advice there, thanks

Can I just ask you to clarify a couple of points, please? You mention that you feel the DMG Audio EQ "sounds better"... do you mean your final mix ended up sounded better after you had used that plugin to mix it?

Also, do you find your CPU is taxed more with the third-party plugins, versus the stock plugins?

Thanks again for the advice, I will certainly be looking into the plugins you mentioned
Sorry for the late answer, but I was far from home these last two weeks.

So, when i say that Equick is sounding better than EQ8 (something some people here will find questionable, because for them all EQ are equals), you need first to understand that the differences are very subtles and that the ergonomy (GUI, features, etc.) is making a lot too.
But finally, to my ears, the pass filters in Equick are sounding much more transparent, and the whole eq feels a bit more clean than EQ8.
It could be the 64 bit internal processing (most other plugins output at 32 bits, for exemple the great and universally beloved Fabfilter ProQ3, and it let a very tiny truncation noise after the processing), it could be the way the filters are implemented or just the presets curves that fit better my tastes (in this case, you can reproduce that with any other EQ, it's just more tweaking).
Regarding the CPU, Equick is not very demanding and you can use plenty of instances without noticing (I can't compare with EQ8, maybe you can use more, but at this level CPU is not a problem to be considered).

So actually yes my mixes are sounding better since I own Equick, but I don't know if Equick alone is responsible for that : I bought many others plugins, and I practiced a lot these last years, so Equick (or any other plugin) is just a variable in the whole equation.

I think the best for you would be to hear all that and decide what is good, what is bad for you.
Like most of us said, if you need to buy 3d party plugins, start with what you need absolutely (you'll know that with practice) and think about the weak links of Ableton Live : limiter, reverb, level monitoring (peak, RMS LuFS etc. etc.) and spectrum analyzer (like SPAN - it's free), compressor flavors (stock Live comps are great, but there are different flavors of compressors and Live covers only digital comp and bus SSL comp, which is already great - the Glue is actually one of the best compressors out there) etc. etc

Anyway, you should be able to make great stuff with Live stock plugins. I truly think the only REALLY missing parts are reverb (Live's one is not so bad but it's not versatile) and limiter (after buying DMG TrackLimit, I never used anymore the Live limiter). All the rest is good and at this point additional 3d party plugins are only more flavors added...
Old 18th September 2019
  #20
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Konsider's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calagan View Post
Sorry for the late answer, but I was far from home these last two weeks.

So, when i say that Equick is sounding better than EQ8 (something some people here will find questionable, because for them all EQ are equals), you need first to understand that the differences are very subtles and that the ergonomy (GUI, features, etc.) is making a lot too.
But finally, to my ears, the pass filters in Equick are sounding much more transparent, and the whole eq feels a bit more clean than EQ8.
It could be the 64 bit internal processing (most other plugins output at 32 bits, for exemple the great and universally beloved Fabfilter ProQ3, and it let a very tiny truncation noise after the processing), it could be the way the filters are implemented or just the presets curves that fit better my tastes (in this case, you can reproduce that with any other EQ, it's just more tweaking).
Regarding the CPU, Equick is not very demanding and you can use plenty of instances without noticing (I can't compare with EQ8, maybe you can use more, but at this level CPU is not a problem to be considered).

So actually yes my mixes are sounding better since I own Equick, but I don't know if Equick alone is responsible for that : I bought many others plugins, and I practiced a lot these last years, so Equick (or any other plugin) is just a variable in the whole equation.

I think the best for you would be to hear all that and decide what is good, what is bad for you.
Like most of us said, if you need to buy 3d party plugins, start with what you need absolutely (you'll know that with practice) and think about the weak links of Ableton Live : limiter, reverb, level monitoring (peak, RMS LuFS etc. etc.) and spectrum analyzer (like SPAN - it's free), compressor flavors (stock Live comps are great, but there are different flavors of compressors and Live covers only digital comp and bus SSL comp, which is already great - the Glue is actually one of the best compressors out there) etc. etc

Anyway, you should be able to make great stuff with Live stock plugins. I truly think the only REALLY missing parts are reverb (Live's one is not so bad but it's not versatile) and limiter (after buying DMG TrackLimit, I never used anymore the Live limiter). All the rest is good and at this point additional 3d party plugins are only more flavors added...
Wow, that's certainly a great endorsement for Equick Thanks for explaining more about why it is good at its job. It's often hard to decide if people just have a personal preference for a particular plugin, or if there is actual "fact" behind the choices people make, you know? I am keen to try out different plugins that make a real difference to the sound, but also do not require too much CPU. It sounds like Equick is definitely worth trying based on your experiences!

Overall, it seems the general advice tends towards the fact that the Ableton plugins are certainly “fine” to use, and it is only after more experience and/or personal preferences that would possibly be a reason to invest in the third-party versions. That’s why asking a question on a site like this is great – the answers are from people who actually use these DAWs and plugins on a regular basis, and can provide some real insight into the best way to work.

Thanks again for taking the time to give me your thoughts – I appreciate it
Old 29th September 2019
  #21
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Daft Joe's Avatar
Some of Abletons plugins are made by Cytomic he's top of his game one of the best. Lives Glue compressor was made by him and he added his The Drop filters to Auto Filter and upgraded EQ Eight.

https://cytomic.com/node/19
Old 29th September 2019
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daft Joe View Post
[Andy] Cytomic … added his The Drop filters to Auto Filter
Source that the analog-modeled filters in Sampler, Simpler, Operator, Wavetable and Auto-filter are the same as the filters in "The Drop"? For one thing, there are 7 filters in The Drop and 4 in Live. I've noted Andy thinks Ableton didn't fully implement these as he would have wished, at least for some of them.

Last edited by Mikael B; 12th October 2019 at 02:31 PM..
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