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ABleton Live 10 + E-RM Multiclock issues
Old 19th January 2019
  #1
Here for the gear
 

ABleton Live 10 + E-RM Multiclock issues

Hi guys,

I have posted this as a reply to "E-RM Multiclcok, MIDI Jitter, Sync, MIDI Lag Solutions", but thought this might be worth a new thread.

I am coming across more MIDI Sync Issues than i can currently handle. It drives me completely insane! I hope you guys can help me out with my Ableton and E-RM setup.

My current setup is minimal:

- Fresh wiped and new imac with nice specs
- RME Fireface UC
- Ableton 10, 256 Sample Buffer Size, 480000 Samples
- Modular Synth receiving external clock and Midi notes through Intellijel uMidi
- Elektron Analog Four
- Elektron Analog Rytm
- I want to record AND monitor at the same time (Reduced Latency when monitoring OFF)
- E-RM sends clock over MIDI to all devices, receives clock from Ableton over Audio via plugin

For a while the Elektron Gear was clocked and tracked over Overbridge and the Modular via USB from Ableton. As the sync issues became more noticeable, i bought an E-RM Multiclock to prevent further sync issues, especially when buying more sequencer gear. I deleted Overbridge and just want everything to be clocked via E-RM. Over the past couple of days i have tried clocking with the E-RM just these three synths, but I am failing miserably...

- First i setup the E-RM in an empty project. Settings in the clock are on POS, so that i can start all synths right away after hitting play in ableton. This means that i have no negative shifit on the clock. A workaround is to set the track delay of the E-RM track to minus. I understood from the manual that the actual Offset setting on each channel are there to compensate the delay in audio recording (not shift), so i left the shift knobs alone and am trying to fix everything with the offset setting.

- Now i am trying to record my modular on beat 1. My Metropolis is receiving the signal over uMidi that i receiving clock on channel 1 from the E-RM. The recording comes in way to early at over 100 MS. I find that very strange already, although in my previous setups i usually had quite high sync latency compensation figures. Not i have to offset the channel 1 to over 100 MS on the E-RM, but the settings go only to 99 MS. Theoretically i could use the shift knob to add extra delay, but again, i think this is not the point, is it? Why have an extra offset setting on each channel then? In the end i somehow manage to get it just roughly on the 1 with max offset settings.

- Now i am trying to do the same with my Analog Four, which receives midi notes over USB and clock over MIDI (Sync OFF, Track ON in midi settings). When recording i get a positive delay of about 30 MS. Since i use POS settings i should now use the negative track delay on the E-RM plugin to compensate, but this would mean that i shift the Modular Recording further as well, which is already at max +99 MS...

What i have noticed with the workaround and the negative delay is that they recordings are only minimally shifted. The modular can be shifted negatively by like 10 MS, but even with a -100 MS Track Delay, still won't budge from the 10 MS. The Four does not move negatively at all, but recordings for all change if the Track Delay is positive...So why can is the modular recording so far in front and why can i not start the other recordings earlier?

On top of that i have tried using the E-RM as an external effect (to prevent stopping the clock when soloing a track) and here the hardware latency or track delay won't work at all. I have also tried JUST the midi sync (unplugged USB), but does not make a difference.

I get the impression that my RME is the trouble maker...any ideas? Really wants me to through everything out of the window...

BTW i sit in Shanghai. Not so easy to come by a Multiclock. Took me 4 weeks to get it through customs...

Cheers
Felix
Old 19th January 2019
  #2
Here for the gear
 

Your thread is really complicate, so maybe I don’t understand your problem totally.
I have a SND clock, which is mainly the same thing as your clock.
So you have to install the VST plug-in, that comes with the clock. Than youput this plugin in an empty track of you Ableton project. Now Ableton is the Master and creates an audio clock signal for the RM-E clock to follow. Now you feed the MIDI signal of the RM-E into the inputs of your hardware Sequencers and they should follow very accurate! Tiny amounts of hardware latency can be eliminated via shifting in the RM-E.

But there shouldn’t be big latencies, over a view ms.
If this isn’t working at all, I think there is an issue with your RM-E clock.
Old 19th January 2019
  #3
Lives for gear
I feel your pain. RME here as well, but I use a USAMO sync box. I am not sure if RME is the issue or not in this case though.

Regardless I found this thread on it and it may solve your issue, even though you have a different device. It's the same concept and it ensures that you have monitoring in Ableton set up the proper way, since that can be a source of issues.

MUFF WIGGLER :: View topic - Ableton Live & sequencers, workaround for latency issues
Old 20th January 2019
  #4
Here for the gear
 

Hi guys,

thanks for the replies!

@myspuntnik07: The problem is i do not have tiny amounts of latency. They are quite big...Modular recording too early with -127 MS, FOUR and RYTM around 30 MS. To compensate that i would have to make use of the NEG/POS setting, which means that i cannot start all sequencers + ableton at the same time. POS setting starts all at the same time, but i can only adjust positively, but not for recordings coming in early.

@ Methlab : Thanks for the link! I tried this. But does not solve my problem with Modular coming in super early and the rest late...
Old 23rd January 2019
  #5
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by roundanalog View Post
- I want to record AND monitor at the same time (Reduced Latency when monitoring OFF)
So use 2 tracks, one for recording with monitor "off" and one for monitoring with "auto"

Quote:
Originally Posted by roundanalog View Post
A workaround is to set the track delay of the E-RM track to minus.
Which delays all other tracks. Assuming this is a Live track with an E-RM plug-in on it. Is it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by roundanalog View Post
. I understood from the manual that the actual Offset setting on each channel are there to compensate the delay in audio recording (not shift), so i left the shift knobs alone and am trying to fix everything with the offset setting.
MIDI channel offset? Offset setting? What do you mean here?

It seems to me you're stacking multiple MIDI issues on top of Live idiosyncrasies that you need to navigate. Solve one at a time, is my advice. Whenever I've been up against this kind of problem I've isolated one aspect of the problem and fixed it one at a time. For instance make a test set with devices or plug-ins that have 0 latency added, never use Track Delay, use a method to connect and delay compensate for playing and recording one external instrument at a time and use internal audio recordings for making sure it's not something else that you might have missed in the signal path and its settings.

These things aren't unsolvable, just don't make it harder than what it already is. Isolate the issues and look for solutions for where you think the problem is. Evaluate and get back at it. You can solve this.

Last edited by Mikael B; 31st January 2019 at 04:09 PM..
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