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Recording return tracks in Ableton
Old 14th January 2019
  #1
Gear Maniac
 
Sk1nZ's Avatar
 

Recording return tracks in Ableton

How do you record return tracks in ableton, im wasting so much time trying to figure it out and the little amount of info online isnt helping me

I can get the return track to record what im sending but its almost a full bar out of sync and very quiet.

I know ableton well so this has become very frustrating so really need some advice.

Heres how its setup...

Original sound > send to return track > return track goes to a audio channel to record the return effect ( which it isnt doing correctly )

EDIT: Is there a way to record the original audio plus the return effect into one channel? Thats really what im trying to do here

thanks
Old 15th January 2019
  #2
Lives for gear
 

Recording return tracks as you described doesn´t indeed work. Think it worked before. Can´t tell if it is Ableton or an update to 10.13.6. Maybe some other users can chime in.
Old 15th January 2019
  #3
Gear Maniac
 
Sk1nZ's Avatar
 

Annoying but ive managed a work around for now which is whenever you are happy with the sound, use the export as if you were exporting a track. This will obviously print everything thats going to the master
Old 16th January 2019
  #4
Gear Maniac
Resampling can be faster than exporting.

Routing and I/O — Ableton Reference Manual Version 10
| Ableton
Old 16th January 2019
  #5
Lives for gear
 

Yes, resampling nulls. Nevertheless routing to an audio track should work too. But it doesn´t since the signals don´t null.
Old 16th January 2019
  #6
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by lllubi View Post
Yes, resampling nulls. Nevertheless routing to an audio track should work too. But it doesn´t since the signals don´t null.
Null with what? It's totally unreasonable to think that you can repeat the exact same effect on rerun. Resampling will record everything on the master buss, so it's way impractical compared to recording directly. If you manage to make these equal in actual content, recordings made with both methods at the same time will null. They are the same! But recording is more straightforward and more practical.

Re-sampling doesn't null if you got something changing the audio on the Master or on the path to there, or if any of the faders even change the level or if anything else goes to the Master at the time of Resampling. Because that's what you're recording with re-sampling. Routing to an audio track PostFX (that's pre-fader) always null if you do it knowing the intricacies of Live routing and recording.

Note that you need to Disable the Send to the return you're recording from. If you fail this you will be out of phase.

Then you make sure the routing nulls in playback by cutting out the effects devices of the return. You need to test with the send to the effects return temporarily set to "Pre" so you can turn down the fader of the instrument track or there will be no detectable null (because without the dry signal nothing will arrive in the return). Do playback test runs and make sure the return and the audio track null without effects. Then paste back the effects and do another test run. At this point you should have perfect nulls or your routing needs to be adjusted.

It's advisable to record non-human performance (here it's MIDI or audio playback via an effects return track) with monitor set to "off" because of Live's assumptions about timing. I haven't tested whether this applies with internal recordings, but better to assume it does.

Last edited by Mikael B; 17th January 2019 at 05:06 PM..
Old 17th January 2019
  #7
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael B View Post

Note that you need to Disable the Send to the return you're recording from. If you fail this you will be out of phase.
Thanks for your insights. Disabling all Sends on the return and the receiving audio track did the trick for me. Was quite tricky to find the correct settings until the original track nulled with the receiving audio track.

Think an option to disable feedback loops globally would be more straightforward.
Old 17th January 2019
  #8
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by lllubi View Post
Think an option to disable feedback loops globally would be more straightforward.
You should be able to override that, but any such routing ought to default to disabling the send back to the source, so amen.
Old 21st January 2019
  #9
Gear Maniac
 

Ehm, when you select the return as the input on an audiotrack, it just records it.
Old 23rd January 2019
  #10
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael B View Post
It's your impression anyone here argues it doesn't? I see no-one arguing that. You're aware what "null" means here and why one might be concerned about that?
Yes, I'm aware of that, Sheldon. I merely answered the OP's question.
I re-record the return on an audiotrack and it's not out of sync. That's what the OP asked about.
Old 23rd January 2019
  #11
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael B View Post
Which was already answered, mime artist. If you didn't disable the send back to the source return you will have phasing, of 1 sample at least. This might be unhearable in practice for some effects, but clearly so for others. This bi-effect is due to how Live works.
No it was not. In fact, post #2 states it is not possible.

Why do you always need to argue?
Old 23rd January 2019
  #12
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael B View Post
I'm sorry you have trouble with reading previous answers. I understand one cannot always do that of course.
What is so hard to understand about post #2 , Einstein??

"Recording return tracks as you described doesn´t indeed work. Think it worked before. Can´t tell if it is Ableton or an update to 10.13.6. Maybe some other users can chime in."
Old 23rd January 2019
  #13
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by OlavB View Post
What is so hard to understand about post #2 , Einstein??

"Recording return tracks as you described doesn´t indeed work. Think it worked before. Can´t tell if it is Ableton or an update to 10.13.6. Maybe some other users can chime in."
I got weird results prior to Mikael´s advice to disable sends on the receiving audio track. Metering is flickering sometimes on the receiving audio track but audio nulls nevertheless.
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