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Old 1st September 2009
  #206
Lives for gear
 
WunderBro Flo's Avatar
Thanks for the clarifications JJ!

So basically that confirms that I can call the capsule a CK12 clone without being accused of trying to discredit anyone, thanks! Please keep in mind I do not say the MIC is a clone, I only said the capsule is one and in my opinion the sound is a variety of the C12 sound as well.

The part where I differ with JJ is the impact of electronics on the sound as long as no audible filtering is used, for two reasons:

1) My experience is that different electronics on the same capsule color the sound from a little to barely audible at best. I have heard CK12s with C12 electronics, C12VR electronics, and C451 body, on a C28 and a C60 body. The ALL carried the signature sound characteristics of the CK12, not one was able to turn it around so anyone could believe they were probably listening to a non CK12 mic. Same goes for M7 capsules, I have heard them in UM57, U47 (and clones) U47fet, CMV...theiy all remain true to the M7 sound when an M7 is used. And no way anyone would have ever mistaken them for a CK12. Years later this experience was basically confirmed in long talks with Andreas Grosser, he told me that in his experience the sound is formed mostly by the capsule, a little by the grill and with a pretty big distance in third place (if no cheap/funky stuff or filtering is going on) the electronics. And not not offend anyone, I am taking Andreas´word above anyone else´s any day of the week. After all he is the one who gets the phonecalls from the world´s gurus when they are in need of advice concerning microphone electronics.

2) The sound of the clips. I know what CK12 and M7 (and more) equipped mics sound next to an U87 because I have done years of testing mics next to those. I know pretty well by now in which frequency areas they differ in what manner. And no matter how you twist and turn it, in those clips of the CS1 next to a U87 and U67, the differences that can be heard are in the same spots as any other CK12 equipped mic you put next to the Neumanns. When I put up a CK12 on a C451 or a CK12 (vintage) in my C12VR next to a U87, the differences are totally in the same ballpark as in the CS1 vs U87 clips.

IMHO I can hear the CK12 capsule more than anything else in the CS1 clips and that this puts it in the "C12 family" of mics. Sorry if that is enough to offend anyone, I think there are worse things to say about a mic.

Thanks JJ for making this a discussion again, it was kind of going in the wrong direction with all the personal attacks and accusations.

Rock on!
Pat

ps - and luckily for many here I do not want to continue this discussion anymore. I posted my opinion, live with it guys.