My first song post - need some help.

[mhartman]

Hey, I've lurked around a while and posted some in other threads, but I have never uploaded anything. I've been recording at home for 8 months or so and I did this in my home "studio" over the past week. I would appreciate any advice, criticism, comments, etc. It is me doing everything, so please excuse the poor playing/singing/writing that you may encounter.

What can I do to make this sound better (i.e., more professional)? Any advice?Thanks in advance for your help.

Mike

[EDIT: THE FINAL (well maybe near final) MIX .MP3 IS AT THE BOTTOM OF THIS THREAD]

[mhartman]

Anyone? I was a bit scared to post, but so far the criticism hasn't been too bad.

[mhartman]

Cool. Thanks for the feedback dim light. I was actually somewhat going for the silly high school pop type thing, so I'm glad that that came across. I appreciate the feedback. Any comments about production quality, things that could be improved in the mix, etc? Like I said, I'm a rookie home guy, so any comments are appreciated.

By the way, here is what I used gearwise:

E Guitars: '79 Strat/Agile Les Paul Copy -> Randall RM20 (various modules) -> Oktava Mk012/SM57 (in a Randall Iso Cab) -> Great River ME-1NV
Acoustic: Old Yamaha -> Oktava Mk012 -> ME-1NV
Bass: Yamaha bass -> ME-1NV (DI)
Vox: SM57 -> ME-1NV
Drum: Battery with Battery Studio Drums Samples

Converters: Apogee PSX-100
DAW: Cubase SX3

Thanks again,
Mike

[mhartman]

Thanks again, will do.

[John Suitcase]

Pretty good!

I'd crank up the drums a bit, and mess with the guitar eq a little bit. It has that sort of overly-scooped sound that makes it a little weak. I'd also try to put just a little more 'voice' into the bass guitr, maybe crank up the 800 hz a bit and see what happens.

Overall good for only 8 months! That Great River/Apogee chain is working well for you!

[mhartman]

Thanks John! I really appreciate the feedback. I'll have to try out your suggestions when I get home tonight. After listening again, I agree, the rhythm section is a bit lacking.

Regarding the Great River/Apogee combo, I have been extremely happy with these units -- they have really made a difference in my recordings (before these, I had focusrite voicemaster/mackie pres and an 1820m for the converters). The GR/Apogee combo really made everything sound bigger.

Mike

[John Suitcase]

I've been toying with the idea of replacing my aging MOTU 828 with one of the Apogee units, perhaps the time is coming...

The Ensemble looks awfully attractive...

Keep it up, I'd be curious to hear the next revision, if you feel like posting again!

[mhartman]

Not that I am the utmost of authorities, but maybe you can keep the 828 and get an Apogee unit to run through it using a digital input. Depending on the setup, you might get a few extra channels and you would probably benefit from an improved clock. The PSX-100 that I used, I found for $900 on ebay. I actually just sold it though because I found an Rosetta 200 for $1300. I haven't had much time to play with the new unit yet though (except for monitoring/mixing).

Now if I can just get my mixing/songwriting skills to sound as good as the equipment. Unforunately, the job that allows me to be a bit spoiled with equipment, doesn't let me spend enough time using it.

I'll post the updated song once I get a chance to mess around with it.

Mike

[tgrokz]

beef up the drums and get rid of some of the mud in the lead guitars.

[mhartman]

Cool. Thanks for the feedback. Any ideas on getting rid of the mud? Thanks, Mike.

Originally Posted by tgrokz

beef up the drums and get rid of some of the mud in the lead guitars.

[Methlab]

HPF the gtrs more..like maybe even up to 400hz for some tracks.

and your snare is way too small..the drums need to knock more!!!

[mhartman]

Thanks! I had no idea that people went up that high with the HPF's. I'm working on the snare with some distortion and a bit more reverb. Any other tricks (or common sense that I may miss) for beefing up the snare?

Mike

Originally Posted by Methlab

HPF the gtrs more..like maybe even up to 400hz for some tracks.

and your snare is way too small..the drums need to knock more!!!

[Methlab]

make sure it is gated well, make sure it was tracked well. If not, use drumagog and get a sample in there. that snare is way too small, it needs to be right up in the mix..A/B with some mixes to see what im saying.

Eq..boost around 200 hz or so for some thump..cut that out of your kick to compensate. Compress, but not so much that you lose clarity. Medium attack, faster relase time can work. Id remix..start with the drums and just get them all in your face first before you move to anything else. Then you can bring in the vocals and get them up in there..but this is only my way of working..there are many.

[mhartman]

Thanks. I've been working on getting the snare going and it is amazing how it is bringing some additional energy to the song. Once I get the whole thing mixed again, I will post an updated version.

Originally Posted by Methlab

make sure it is gated well, make sure it was tracked well. If not, use drumagog and get a sample in there. that snare is way too small, it needs to be right up in the mix..A/B with some mixes to see what im saying.

Eq..boost around 200 hz or so for some thump..cut that out of your kick to compensate. Compress, but not so much that you lose clarity. Medium attack, faster relase time can work. Id remix..start with the drums and just get them all in your face first before you move to anything else. Then you can bring in the vocals and get them up in there..but this is only my way of working..there are many.

[tgrokz]

for the guitars, on the EQ, bring them down maybe at around 100-200hz. Maybe you might want to bring it up at around 4-6khz for some good clarity. as for the snare, do what methlab said. dont be afraid to really mess around with the snare. i alwyas end up doing something differient with snares to get a really good sound. its either reverb, compression, or eq. play with all 3.

[mhartman]

Thanks. I am getting there -- bigger, in your face snare and less muddy guitars. It is starting to sound much better. I will print off a mp3 copy and upload it when I get a chance. I was listening to it in the car this morning and really is starting to sound much better than the first version.

Originally Posted by tgrokz

for the guitars, on the EQ, bring them down maybe at around 100-200hz. Maybe you might want to bring it up at around 4-6khz for some good clarity. as for the snare, do what methlab said. dont be afraid to really mess around with the snare. i alwyas end up doing something differient with snares to get a really good sound. its either reverb, compression, or eq. play with all 3.

[mhartman]

Here is an updated version of the song. Let me know if you like it better than the first one that I uploaded. I tried to follow you guys' advice as best I could figure out. Thanks again for all of the tips.

Mike

[tgrokz]

muuuuch better
the one thing i would say now is that the kick sounds 5 feet long. i would say to just bring it down in the really low freqs (im talking low low end). other than that, sounds great.

[mhartman]

Cool. Thanks.

[cerberus]

vocal sibilance..

what's the deal with no hihats.. the ride cymbal is totally washed out.

i'd like to hear the bass louder and clearer.

i'd prefer a more gated less ambient more direct sound like the offspring, or at least in the green day direction..all way too wet for me..drowning in it, imo...and the playing may not be quite tight enough.

jeff dinces

[Axiz7]

Originally Posted by mhartman

Regarding the Great River/Apogee combo, I have been extremely happy with these units -- they have really made a difference in my recordings (before these, I had focusrite voicemaster/mackie pres and an 1820m for the converters). The GR/Apogee combo really made everything sound bigger.

Mike nice song, great sound...can you say how the Great River did for you minus the Apogee...with the 1820m?

Sonically speaking.

thx

[MDM]

First of all - This is not TIGHT - It has to be tight - Especially the guitars are sloppy timed - That really f**^s up the whole groove.

Next : Your drums sound dull .. Where's the HIHATS ? they're not there...

Voices are too loud in the mix..

Artistically I will not bother you with feedback - it's not my street this type of music & lyrics.

But as a mix / production : Get your groove sorted & it will be much much better.

best !

[MDM]

Ah I hadnt heard that second mix yeet

OK - now the vocals have the right level

Find the drums too metallic now - not fond of that clicky sound in the kick with no low-end .... I'd rather have clickyness coming from the BASSGUITAR where is it ?

oh yeah i hear it now ploof ploof ploof plooof -- work on the bass / kick situation for a bit.

the hype-feel is better than the dull-feel of the old mix

still, get it tight everywhere - make sure it's all rocksolid.

especially in the beginning i notice the guitars being out of time -

overall sound of this mix is a bit metallic - not sure if that is nice

[mhartman]

Thanks for your comments guys. I really appreciate you taking the time to listen and give me some feedback. Your feedback has really made me understand more about how much it really takes to get a good sounding mix. I have decided that the attached is my final mix of this song (it is time to move on to a new song after spending a month (nights after work) on this one - writing, programming the drums, recording, mixing, etc.) I will take your comments regarding this one on to my next project.

Regarding the mix being a bit metallic...I agree. Does anyone know how I can fix that? All of my guitars seem to turn out a bit metallic sounding (too much for my taste).

Regarding the cymbols (or lack thereof), I really am having a hard time getting sampled cymbols to sound good. Does anyone have any suggestions (other than use a real drummer)?

Regarding the GR pre without the apogee. It is a great preamp and it will help even if you are recording with an 1820m. It is versitile and really makes things sound a bit bigger.

Again, thanks for all of the feedback.

Mike

[mhartman]

Originally Posted by cerberus

vocal sibilance..
i'd prefer a more gated less ambient more direct sound like the offspring, or at least in the green day direction..all way too wet for me..drowning in it, imo...
jeff dinces

Jeff, what would you suggest for some gate settings to get a more direct sound? I love the Offsping sound and would love to be able to get closer to it. Thanks...Mike

[cerberus]

Originally Posted by mhartman

Jeff, what would you suggest for some gate settings to get a more direct sound? I love the Offsping sound and would love to be able to get closer to it. Thanks...Mike

mike;
it would be depend on how much dynamics the recording has...and every gate responds differently...i have no presets for gates, they are usually very simple to set up, and it's totally an ear adjustment for me... but maybe an expander, not a full gate would work best on some instruments, and of course a lot of compression would need to be used.

one thing about reverbs... adding pre-delay to tighten up transients sounds counter-intuitive but otherwise the reverb can cover up the decay of the clean sound... adding up to 35ms of pre-delay to the reverb return will not sound like a delayed sound, but it will clear up some mush that reverb can bring, especially on leads and vocals.

jeff dinces

[mhartman]

Thanks Jeff. I appreciate your help.