Save The Drama, Pop/Hip Hop Beat + Hot Female Vocalist

[Donovan]

Her name's Chazlynn

And this is my first submission

..And my first song I've done with an artist (And my first slutz post)

Be nice! :-D

-Donovan

[Sirocco]

it sounds good but i hear some sort of phase issue with the high end of the vocal and the clap

and the low end needs to be taken to the next level

[proxy]

Hey,

I'll preface this by saying I am listening throught the built-in speaker of my G3. That said, I downloaded the track yesterday and played it a couple of time since then and have to say it's pretty damn bouncy and hooky in its genre. I like to hear stuff through crappy speakers because if it can hold my interest like that, then that's a good sign. So I popped in my headphones and I hear the phase stuff too, but I think it may be greatly emphasized by the mp3 compression - otherwise I think it sounds very cool.

2 bits of feedback if that's what you're looking for...

- I felt like the last line "I came to dance and to brush off all ya haters" goes a little under the arrangement. The precursors to it are so hooky, and then this last line feels a little tossed away, when I've kind of been waiting for it to land. We're talkin' a real subtle difference, but it just sagged a little (on the G3).

- Towards the end when she's kinda belting out (again more noticable on the lower grade speakers), she felt like she was making a big noise in a small space. A taste thing, but it seemed like it could use a little "big-space-makeup" to have it be as big as it seemed like it wanted to be. Does that make sense?


Again really subtle and I'm only giving feedback because my head was nodding in the first place. =)

Are you getting it mastered? Can you share a little about the gear you used (recording, mixing, etc.)? How old is the singer? Did you have to autotune? That stuff...


- Justin

[Donovan]

Hey thanks for the replies!

Sir: Not really sure how to get rid of the phasing issue with the clap.. And I still can't hear it.

Proxy: When you said sagged do you mean she's not singing it fast enough or the actual volume goes under a bit?

And for the big fish in a small pond bit.. Are you suggesting that I tweak the reverb a bit?

***I've been having a really hard time figuring out how to get lead vox to sound wider/more full like pro recordings. Lately I've been fx'ing a waves doubler onto the main vox and it works to a point, but if you turn it up too high it'll sound chorus'd and cheap. Any other tricks for making a not so thin and centered vocal track?

***I'd also like to know what reverb people have been using for vox.. I used an Arts Acoustic "Large Room" plate for these vocals and it sounded pretty good, but not perfect..

Any other feedback would be great! Thanks!

Background Info:

The singer is 17 and this was the first song I had her record. I didn't use any pitch-correction on her voice. I'm actually a 20 y/o student so I have zero money... Actually I have negative money lol. So I won't be getting it professionally mastered. I mixed this entirely itb at my home studio.

Rode NT1a Condensor
Digidesign M-Box
Nuendo 3
Waves Diamond Bundle
Arts Acoustic Reverb

That's the extent of the 'gear' I used, though that's barely considered gear by your guys' standards.

-Donovan

[proxy]

Originally Posted by Donovan

Proxy: When you said sagged do you mean she's not singing it fast enough or the actual volume goes under a bit?

Purely a volume thing, and I'm talking pretty subtle. If you don't hear it or aren't feeling it, I say, leave it - but if you listen on some lower-end speakers, you might hear it.

And for the big fish in a small pond bit.. Are you suggesting that I tweak the reverb a bit?

I guess so - vocal down a hair, fx up. Those linear notes sometime cut through more than sing-songy lyrics, and in just that part she sounded a little naked (to me - but I'm nobody). Again, just reeeealy subjective and subtle finishing touches.

***I've been having a really hard time figuring out how to get lead vox to sound wider/more full like pro recordings. Lately I've been fx'ing a waves doubler onto the main vox and it works to a point, but if you turn it up too high it'll sound chorus'd and cheap. Any other tricks for making a not so thin and centered vocal track?

Well, for wide, I'd blend the un-widened track with a widened one, and I'd personally steer clear from their doubler. One of the classic moves for that would be to send it to a pitch-shifter (left + and right -, anywhere from 1 cent to 10 or more). Track 2-4 left and right live doubles or the singer AND send some of that to the shifter, and that may be what you're hearing on those tracks you're comparing to. I'd use even a cheapo alesis outboard for that trick over the waves thingy.

The singer is 17 and this was the first song I had her record. I didn't use any pitch-correction on her voice.

Nice to hear that pitch-correction is not part of the equasion. Did you write/program the track?

I'm actually a 20 y/o student so I have zero money... Actually I have negative money lol. So I won't be getting it professionally mastered. I mixed this entirely itb at my home studio.

Donavan, keep going man, it sounds great.

- Justin

PS - I PM'ed you too...

[Donovan]

Hey man thanks for another informative post!

I just watched that M.I.L.A.R by Charles Dye and he was talking about automation and "vocal rides" and that's exactly what you're talkin about! Basically boost the main vox channel 1 or 2dB in loud passages using automation. I'm definitely going to go back through the song and add automation.

He also showed us how to make wider vocal tracks by using a doubled take and using a harmonizer and a few other tools... I'll try the tips you gave me and let you guys know the results.

Yeh I wrote the song and made the beat from scratch. I found that it's easier to just record the song first and let her hear it a few times, then she just fills in all the spots (since I sing also) it works out perfectly.

Thanks for the props and I'll definitely be checking out your mastering engineer.

-Donovan

[HeatWAVS]

Donavan... you brought the heat production... if you don't mind me asking what exactly did you do to her vocals? Plugin wise

[NeoVXR]

well, the voice sounds a bit thin at some moments. you might find out what they did about avril lavigne in her early tracks. anyway, she is young.
the girl is great, if this is without tuning. but she is influenced by the autotuned listening habits of today, you might find some older soul and jazz recordings and play them to her, so she can try to find where and how personality was transformed to a major production in these times.

the HF issue... perhaps you hit the limiter too hard with the higher spectrum. did you use L2? - don't! I think it does not fit the style.
low budget try: dominion and endorphin, if everything else doesn't help. the dominion would help with transient attack and also both can add some color to fatten the thing up. you need to decide whether you do some trashy but crass hip-hop sound or 100% perfect RnB which requires also some HQ gear.
do something about a "real" kick, find some more samples!

seems you are on the way to show that you "can do"...

but this one resembles a beyonce song so much, and also we have a "rihanna" this time, so that you are getting in the malstream of major label perfection and what will you live on, until you have reached such a level? not bad at all, but.. good is never good enough there.
so, keep on, but try to be a bit adventorous and create your own unique soundscape and break some rules, AFTER you have discovered ond considered them.

[Feinstrom]

Great track!

I didn't hear any phasing (but I'm not the "I can hear fleas coughing" type).
I only heard a smashing singer and a near-professional production.

You're definitely on your way!

[Feinstrom]

Haven't been able to get that song out of my head for over two days now...

[cap217]

good song, what was the music made on?

[guerillamixer]

I like it.

Great singing, good feel in the grooves.

It is ultra derivative, but I guess thats the point eh?

[butterfly]

The right mix and this definetley could bang in the clubs, persevere with the mix, beg or borrow some mastering (or money) get it on vinyl then get it to the dj's.

[Donovan]

Hey Neo you're right I used the L2. It's all I know how to use to boost my mixes. What style do you think the L2 fits? I'll try out those other options you gave me.

And thanks a lot Feinstrom for the words, those are definitely needed when there's so much negativeness about anything a person does in music.. Like people will find something wrong with everything. Glad you found it catchy! :-D

And butterfly, I actually submitted that "Save The Drama" and a song I did on my myspace "Take A Ride" to my local radio station for a compilation album they're doing.. So hopefully those two songs will make it, and I'll get some radio and possibly local club play! I'm sure they'll tell me the same thing and request them to get mastered.

Thanks for all the words and I'll be keeping you guys updated with all of this.

-Donovan

[NeoVXR]

hi donovan,
(I like your music at myspace)

the L2 is being used quite successfully in indie/emo productions, then classic rock, but everywhere else you may find it also.
there are 2 ways of usage: a) merely to prevent a few overs, and let it hit only 1-2 dB of momentary attenuation; b) push it hard and it will change the sound until it becomes totally smashed and muddy. for the latter purpose the market has a lot more tools now.

until you find something better, my idea for your mastering chain might be:
ren-comp -> EQ -> dominion -> endorphin -> L2
(I am verbose because I have worked with material that has a similar kind of sound.)
start with dominion, ren-comp and L2 in bypass mode.
get the thing tight with the 2-band compression of endorphin (tune attack,decay, don't overdo!), let it do a minimal bit of "saturation" (color) when you want it more aggressive / less cheesy, hit into the limiter until its loud but not "phasey" (more loudness will require / cause more saturation) , do minimal bass/treble balance with the 2-band volumes.
then turn on the dominion. use the "attack" to make snare hits and percussion harder. use the exciter (tune frequency and intensity) to make it shine a bit, use the decay (seldom) to make it grind and drag the bass.
then you may use the ren-comp and try the orange AND the blue ranges with the rate control that is in the center. this one can smoothen up a track that wants to be soft, and in the expansion range (blue) it can undo some of the "smashing" that you get from the limiter, it will restore a bit of the lost dynamics. in this case, imagine that you really hit and thrash into the system (that behaves like a wall of rubber) to make it "live". be very careful with the side-effects.
with this, you have the dominion for hitting with attacks and transients, and the ren-comp in expansion mode for hitting with mid-range dynamics (e.g. vocals), or to soften them. the ren-comp usage depends on whether the mix has come out more flat or more dynamic. keep the rate close to 1:1 and the threshold in the way upper ranges. the display bar should merely flash a bit or stay very short, not look like a blue or orange VU meter.
if the bass is a bit tiny, you can add maxbass at the start of the chain (but better help it in the mix. - do you know a local club owner who allows you to test the bass in "real"?)
finally, you look at the level at the output of the endorphin. get it to zero (should be anyway). turn on the L2, and tune it to do almost nothing! the task of the L2 would be 1) prevent the remaining overs of the less than perfect endorphin and 2) dithering.
keep the output at -0.15 or so (there is a lot of opinion and literature about this, e.g. for the sake of the mp3 compression you would avoid certain peaks, HF boosts, and transients, but use the chain on the other hand to push some brilliance that is lost with the compression. I do a CD print and a separate mp3 print where I actually test the compression result and adjust HF)

(the endorphin limiter is quite careful with the sound, but sometimes lets through a few"red" overs. to me it seems that only the most modern, and more expensive mastering limiters can beat it. but we are not talking "audiophile" here..)

good luck, and take some time for experimenting ;)
you can make it !!