Slamming teenie pop/rock song

[chymer]

Hey,
just thought I'd post this song I wrote with an up and coming tweenie pop rocker, shes only 13yo.
Im going for that chris lord alge mix thing he does so damn well.
The vocal is guide and it was all done pretty quickly on the day it was written.
-pod xt for bass and gits
-BFD for drums
Thats it really
Any comments
cheers
Chymer

[Ahellam]

I think if you tamed the brightness on the drums and brought the guitars way down you wouldnt have to "pump" or "slam" the vocals so hard and there would be more room to hear delays and verbs.

Fake drums sound great.

[AlexLakis]

Vocals are really nasally, but oh well, what can ya do, she's 13, and it's pretty darn good for a guide! Guitars are soooo POD, pretty well played, tho. I don't think the drums have as much impact as you'd like them to, except the toms. Are they too squashed? The snare sounds too electronicy (sounds like something offa Pretty Hate Machine), not rocky enough for the song, just an opinion, tho. Good mix!

[smk]

I like the song. Good feel. Production is good but could definitely be polished IMHO.

[C Heat]

Originally Posted by smk

I like the song. Good feel. Production is good but could definitely be polished IMHO.

Agreed. Right on the money for the tweenies.

A bit of Autotune / re-track on some vocal parts is all I could suggest...

Oh yeh, and get a development / production contract in place with her (?) :)

[chymer]

Agreed. Right on the money for the tweenies.

A bit of Autotune / re-track on some vocal parts is all I could suggest...

Oh yeh, and get a development / production contract in place with her (?) :)

The song will definately be re-recorded with real drums, real amps and depending on budget, maybe someone else to mix it (Chris Lord Alge perhapse.....I friggin wish...) and the whole sugar coated pop shebang!!!

cheers for the feedback
Chymer

[Jules]

IMHO the drums neeed to be pumped out to a stairwell or ping pong room via a 4 x 12 or a very loud hifi and stereo mic'ed and compressed to death - for some belivable ambience.. I dont like the cat sneeze reverb on the snare.

I agree with the uber pod gtr sound - it needs an odd / hybrid sound like a cranked marshall LEs Paul tracked with Tele combo fed with a say a wah pedal stuck on some oddd nasal / tube sound. If you cant crank an amp look into this...

http://gearslutz.com/board/showthrea...ght=motherload

Perhaps lay on some delay towards the end on the vocal, (or double track the L vox on the outro section) she sounds a little 'strained' / out on her own with no support vocally..

The vocal M8 gtr arpegiate section could get cut in half..

But crack the drum sound and the the gtr tone battle and the whole thing will work a treat.

I like the song / artist

For a "sex pistols pumping gtr" trick on the chorus that you may or not find usefull - see here..

http://gearslutz.com/board/showthrea...ht=sex+pistols

If she has looks that makes boys scateboard into lamp posts by accident, I can see you getting some A&R interest.

[Seifer]

I agree with what has been said. Guitars are like so totally POD. Nobody believes me, but I can get better sounds out of amp software like Simulanalog (FREE) than I can with a POD. Maybe you could check it out. With a good DI and good converters it can sound good.

I also think the drums are waaaaay too compressed. It just doesn't sound good and isn't necessary when the drums already sound good. It's easy to get a consistent drum sound when you can program every hit, and maybe 1-2 dB of gain reduction with a 1176 or something that sounds similar just to smooth it out a little. Thats my style anyway. I've even used an LA2A with < 1dB of reduction after a 1176 to fatten up the drums without killing them. Of course if you don't own these you can't do this, but you get the idea. AS ALWAYS...

YMMV, IMO, BYOB, ETC.

[Jules]

Originally Posted by chymer

The song will definately be re-recorded with real drums, real amps and depending on budget, maybe someone else to mix it (Chris Lord Alge perhapse.....I friggin wish...) and the whole sugar coated pop shebang!!!

cheers for the feedback
Chymer

You may need to elevate the demo recording to more of a "master standard" to
a) get the A&R interest and
b) safeguard your position as the artists producer

[Seifer]

Sorry about the off topic question, but why is the production quality of demos so important now? I keep hearing this everywhere. What did labels do when bands could only make crappy demos? It seems to me that the song should speak for itself. I have a few unreleased demo tracks from famous bands that got them signed in the first place, and some are quite terrible. Everclear's "capitol records demo" can be found on the net, featuring most of the songs that appeared on their first major label release, and it sounds like a crappy home recording. Sublime comes to mind as well.

I think chymer's recording paints a good picture of what the song sounds like and what the performer sounds like with only a few small flaws that were mentioned. What else do they want? Of course, I know nothing about the music biz... imo, ymmv, ita

[R.B.]

Gosh----I do like the song-----but her voice is hard to listen to----....sounds like she is trying to copy someone's vocal style--not sure whom---maybe push her to try and develop her singing style in another direction...
anyway---I definitely know the age group--Im working with a 15 year old ----so how do you plan on going about getting A&R attention?--Anybody?--besides submitting to Taxi-(which is what Im doing)-*S*

[chymer]

Yes the guitars are indeed a pod....

For a "sex pistols pumping gtr" trick on the chorus that you may or not find usefull - see here..

http://gearslutz.com/board/showthre...ght=sex+pistols

Jules, Im gonna try this, I usually only do it to bass, it sounds like fun and it def worked well with your example.

You may need to elevate the demo recording to more of a "master standard" to
a) get the A&R interest and
b) safeguard your position as the artists producer

Jules, she allready has label interest and it was our first writing session but I think it went well and perhapse if I just re-record the guitars with real amps and tweak the drums and polish her vox it might be enough to have her management consider me to produce her record. Im still trying to establish myself as a producer so its probably worth the extra effort. BTW, I dont think she has any probs impressing the lads:-)

Hey thanks for the comments guys, Im hanging to get get some real 'amped' guitars on this track...pod schmod!

Cheers
Chymer

[Jules]

Originally Posted by Seifer

Sorry about the off topic question, but why is the production quality of demos so important now? I keep hearing this everywhere. What did labels do when bands could only make crappy demos? It seems to me that the song should speak for itself. I have a few unreleased demo tracks from famous bands that got them signed in the first place, and some are quite terrible. Everclear's "capitol records demo" can be found on the net, featuring most of the songs that appeared on their first major label release, and it sounds like a crappy home recording. Sublime comes to mind as well.

I think chymer's recording paints a good picture of what the song sounds like and what the performer sounds like with only a few small flaws that were mentioned. What else do they want? Of course, I know nothing about the music biz... imo, ymmv, ita

If the producer wants more than a weak handshake & forced smile from the A&R department, he better have his shit sounding amazing. Folks are turning in 'masterpieces' made on home computer rigs and limited equipment. The well known phenomenon you must have slept through is called the 'home studio revolution' it started about 7 years ago.

"rough demo" has been replaced with "competent facsimile of hit record"

There may be 50 other girls behind this one that may have:

better produced demos (by hit producers)
better photos
better vocal pitch / tone
better looks
better songs
pro management already in place

So while the A&R sit in the board room having a weekly A&R meeting and have the propmo pack / photos / local press / list of industry people all wanting to come aboard in front of them and a stack of CD's. Wouldn't you want the sound coming out of the board room speakers to sound like 'surefire hit'?

(yes is the answer these days)

[blackmagic]

Just registered.. long time voyeur on this forum though ;).. dig the mix.. lots of energy. the guitars have a slight tincan flavour on them though.. would go for a more "open" sound.. her singing is good.. if you look only at the pitch.. in fact.. her voice has the same problems as the guitars have.. nasal sound..the recordings are warm yet the timbre is like they're having a cold..she should take singing lesson's for less nasal sound..there are easy techniques for that..good songwriting though..should have some "not so uber happy just having fun" part in it though for some dynamics...

[Jules]

Originally Posted by chymer

Hey thanks for the comments guys, Im hanging to get get some real 'amped' guitars on this track...pod schmod!

Cheers
Chymer

Dont forget to send those drums out to a mic'ed real space for some ambience???

[Seifer]

Originally Posted by Jules

If the producer wants more than a weak handshake & forced smile from the A&R department, he better have his shit sounding amazing. Folks are turning in 'masterpieces' made on home computer rigs and limited equipment. The well known phenomenon you must have slept through is called the 'home studio revolution' it started about 7 years ago.

"rough demo" has been replaced with "competent facsimile of hit record"

There may be 50 other girls behind this one that may have:

better produced demos (by hit producers)
better photos
better vocal pitch / tone
better looks
better songs
pro management already in place

So while the A&R sit in the board room having a weekly A&R meeting and have the propmo pack / photos / local press / list of industry people all wanting to come aboard in front of them and a stack of CD's. Wouldn't you want the sound coming out of the board room speakers to sound like 'surefire hit'?

(yes is the answer these days)

I'm aware of the popularity of home recording

I just thought everyone sucked (except for me)

[norman_nomad]

Originally Posted by chymer

Hey,
just thought I'd post this song I wrote with an up and coming tweenie pop rocker, shes only 13yo.

This song shows some potential, but IMHO as a producer, I think you could have pushed it a little more. The song is so perfectly generic that I can't figure out which songs on the OC I've heard the vocal hooks from. Not meant as a cut at all, I'm actually quite impressed ... I'm sure this girl's other 13 year old friends listened to this and thought she was a genius.

I think the song lacks "edge" and not just from a production standpoint. The formula for this kind of girl-pop is: create something that sounds like everything else, but is just slightly different. I was waiting to hear the "slightly different".

I think you could even leave her vocals as is, and just run some more compelling instrumentals underneath. That'd do it for me.

Either way, good job and the best of luck to you both!

[chymer]

I'm sure this girl's other 13 year old friends listened to this and thought she was a genius.

lol:-)

I think you could even leave her vocals as is, and just run some more compelling instrumentals underneath. That'd do it for me.

Yes, I really do want to explore other intrumentation. Got any ideas I could try?
My instinct is to add a synth hook at the end, but my instinct also says that its naff:-)

Dont forget to send those drums out to a mic'ed real space for some ambience???

I have done this before as someone suggested but it didnt really do anything for me, I could bring the room mics up in BFD though, but I will try it again because it was some years ago. Ill also turn the "cat sneeze" reverb down on the snare, I kinda like it though but it may be a bit 80s sounding.

Once again thanks for the comments guys and general interest, its really helping me, not just for this song but in general.
When I polish the song I'll post it again and see If I done good or not, maybe you'll hear it on the OC, let me know, I dont watch that shite:-)

cheers
Chymer

[guerillamixer]

Hi there, sounds great here are a few of two bit production ideas from a two bit producer ;

Verse;

The palm mute riffing guitar tone doesn't quite work for me, maybe its just a POD thing.
The guitar riff/tone is clashin with the nasal tones in the vox in the verse in the second half.

What about keys? The right distorted organ patch could double/replace/comp some guitar parts giving the vox a bit more room, but keeping the riffy feel.

The stop-start/call-response feel of the riff could me accented more, either by muting or gating.

The two bars at the end of the verse are really cool, and the length of that section could be doubled the next time round.

Chorus

Great! the snare is way compressed though..need just a little more pop maybe, but I like it..

Middle 8

Once again I think some keys could really work...


Good luck and keep truckin!

[tubesandteles]

DON'T DISS MUSIC ON THE OC! You've got it all wrong...LOL
OC=COOL MUSIC!
Too Little Too Late sounds like a mix of Hilary Duff and ALOT like ALOTLOTLOTLOT like Ashley Simpson. I really think the song is a nice POP song. Only thing you are missing is a section of the song with filtered drums. I really don't like the vocalist though. I have a sister without major label interest that could sing the girl in Too Little Too Late out of a job! However, I think they probably don't use real amps at all in a ton of that stuff. Tweenie girls listening to their Popstar Idols don't go, "Hmmm, not hearing enough natural air from that guitar cab. Ewwwww...I can't listen to sequenced drums."
They would eat this stuff up. It wouldn't hurt if Jessica Simpson or Britney Spears was her older sister. I've heard stuff like that on Disney Channel in the past.
Back on the OC thing.
Death Cab For Cutie is the kind of stuff they play on the OC. Death Cab for Cutie is a WONDERFUL band. Hearing them live will make you want to throw away their CD that already sounds awesome.

[norman_nomad]

Originally Posted by tubesandteles

Death Cab For Cutie is the kind of stuff they play on the OC. Death Cab for Cutie is a WONDERFUL band. Hearing them live will make you want to throw away their CD that already sounds awesome.

That's true... Death Cab is pretty great. I met one of the guys from "Palo Alto" awhile back and he said they were getting played on the OC, and I think they're a pretty good band.

Actually.. any band getting played on popular tv is probably $miling big, Speaking of which.. chymer, how many points do I get now that I mentioned the OC idea?

[R.B.]

Chymer--I had a question for you a little earlier in the thread--since I didnt get a response I sent you a private message----would appreciate an answer --
i"f you have A& R interest--how did you go about gettin it?"

Thanx

[chymer]

Actually.. any band getting played on popular tv is probably $miling big, Speaking of which.. chymer, how many points do I get now that I mentioned the OC idea?

of course mate 100 percent:-)

i"f you have A& R interest--how did you go about gettin it?"

She allready had some interest when I hooked up with her, dont know how they got it actually but my job is really to write hits and hopefully produce her record if she gets a budget/deal.

Too Little Too Late sounds like a mix of Hilary Duff and ALOT like ALOTLOTLOTLOT like Ashley Simpson. I really think the song is a nice POP song.

Thanks mate, Ive followed the whole female rock/pop thing over the last couple of years and I love John Shanks' work, he really has a great sound, his name seemes to be on everything. I'd love to work with him one day (but I'm in Australia....soo far away...), its def the direction I'm heading in I hope.

better go, gotta watch the next episode of the O.C. and do some homework.

Cheers guys
Chymer

[Jules]

RE: OC don't forget that the bands you hear now on OC were probably at this demo stage THREE YEARS AGO and signed 2 years ago.

So by the time you get done perfecting your copy act, drag them round to A&R and have lawyers drag their heels to run your bill up - your music will be 6 years behind the curve.

Innovate instead.

[guerillamixer]

Like IMogen Heap

[Jose Mrochek]

Chymer... I think the bridge is a bit to long. cut it in half : ) that´s it.. you lost me for 4 bars. The rest is great. good luck.

[eyesore]

Originally Posted by chymer

my job is really to write hits and hopefully produce her record if she gets a budget/deal.

I think I'd concentrate on improving the lyric. It is a definite possibilty that it's my fault that I don't get it though. I can't make out all of the second half of each verse for one thing. You have a hook that could be decent, but I don't see how the rest of the lyric supports it. She starts out saying how this guy started out doing things right but then went down hill, opposite to what I would think the hook implies. The biggest thing I am missing is the 'two days..' thing. What's this two days about? I didn't catch anything anywhere else establishing this time table. Also in the bridge it says "I'm leaving you today..." Also, I'm not understanding the 'finally, a place I can escape to'. I am still trying to figure out where this place she is going that she can't get to until two more days is and how it ties in with the story. Please, if I am just totally missing the obvious, someone point it out. The way I am understandng it, the thing needs a total reworking.

Originally Posted by AlexisLakis

Guitars are soooo POD, pretty well played, tho.

Actually, to me, it sounded like the left channel guitarist's muting wasn't too good right at the beginning, and there is some slop from strings that aren't being played in there. I notice this because I am trying to improve the same thing in my playing. Right at the beginning there it sticks out. The right channel guitar seems a lot cleaner. I don't know about the POD thing as I've never used one or known I was hearing one, but the guitars sound better than a lot of direct recording methods you could use.

Originally Posted by AlexLakis

Vocals are really nasally, but oh well, what can ya do, she's 13

Why, of course! Just imagine if someone posted this same statement, but substituting the word 'black' for '13'... We'd never hear the end of it. Age discrimination is much more prevalent and much more tolerated. Well I don't accept it. I doubt anyone here would have known her age if it wasn't stated and it's completely irrelevant. I think the vocal problem may be more related to this:

Originally Posted by R.B.

----....sounds like she is trying to copy someone's vocal style--not sure whom---maybe push her to try and develop her singing style in another direction...

I agree with the mentioned snare problem, but is there any chance maybe this came from the 'mastering' to an extent? The snare was usually the first thing to suffer when I used to mess with limiting and compression to try and get a mix loud. It probably has a lot to do with my tendency to mix the snare hot now too.

I think you are on the right track when you said that like the one poster suggested, you are going to look into additional instrumentation. The song seems like it was written and mixed by a guitarist right now, and you need to convince the audience that it belongs to this woman. I mean I do like the guitar parts, but..

I don't think the bridge is too long as is - from a musical standpoint.

One more thing I hope you and others learn from this thread is not to tell too many details about a project upfront unless you want to elicit a certain response. I'm not saying Jules or anyone else was being dishonest, but the real test is when you see if people point it out on their own.

Thanks.

[AlexLakis]

Originally Posted by eyesore

Why, of course! Just imagine if someone posted this same statement, but substituting the word 'black' for '13'... We'd never hear the end of it. Age discrimination is much more prevalent and much more tolerated. Well I don't accept it. I doubt anyone here would have known her age if it wasn't stated and it's completely irrelevant.

I could tell she was under 16, it's pretty obvious (just like the Pod). I meant what I said as a compliment...Don't twist my words around. Your comment here is completely irrelevant and needlessly malicious.

[eyesore]

Originally Posted by AlexLakis

I could tell she was under 16, it's pretty obvious (just like the Pod). I meant what I said as a compliment...Don't twist my words around. Your comment here is completely irrelevant and needlessly malicious.

My comment wasn't meant to single you out, Alex, and I
apologize that it seemed that way.

I have no experience with the Pod as I said, so I can't
comment on that.

Are you saying it was a compliment to the engineer,
Chymer, because it's not his fault but Father Time's that
the vocal sounds 'really nasally'? I would suggest that
your statement impacts more than just the engineer, such as
the vocalist, and the rest of humanity. It might have been
a compliment to the engineer, but it appears to me to be an
insult to the facts of human biology and indirectly to the
vocalist.

I didn't intentionally 'twist your words around', but rather
interpreted them as I understood them. That is, it sounded
to me as though you were saying she sounds 'really nasally'
because all women her age do. Is that not what you said?

I do not feel that my statement was unnecessary - read
through some of the other posts also..

I am anxious to hear the biological explanation for how you
could tell 'she was under 16'. My study of anthropology
shows no evidence to support such a conclusion. I insist
that had I not been told at the outset of the thread, I
would never have been able to come to such a conclusion.
None of my associates, who didn't read the thread, came to
that conclusion either. Perhaps when you explain what you
are hearing to me, it will become 'obvious' to me too...

Again, I don't hold anything personally against you - after
all, you were only acting as would be expected, and as many
others did here and do elsewhere. My job is to educate the
masses on this and other issues for the betterment of
society, and music is one tool I make us