Bang's newest mix.. NEOTEK ELITE.. hell yeah

[Bang]

Here is a mix off the new Neotek. I've used these boards before when I was in Boston but didn't remember how amazing they sound. Well I bought one and its top notch, very thick wide and juicy. Here is a mix I did off it that had a quickie software mastering job that doesn't show the true beauty of the mix, but what the hell, here it is:

http://www.blacklinerock.com/music/a...edomaster1.mp3
and another:
http://www.blacklinerock.com/music/i...edomaster2.mp3
this is also the first mix done with the aurora/big ben combo..

Update 11/15.. few things here.. Here is the first mix again with a bit bigger drum sound.. I didn't think the first one was not big but I guess after mixing my drums so loud for all these years, people have come to expect it... Its an AAC file (thanks Jax) that I think you will need itunes to play.

http://www.blacklinerock.com/music/a...edomaster2.m4a

This next mix I found in a rough mix folder for the same band. The notes on the mix were "mixed in DAW w/Sonalksis EQs to RMS Folcrom to Trident S20 to Super Stereo Comp". I ran it through a quick software mastering chain and you can hear it now... Figured this was relevant since you can now get these two fine pieces via my website, so you might as well hear em in action.

http://www.blacklinerock.com/music/a...edomaster2.m4a

[djui5]

Little heavy in the low mid's, but overall I like it :)

Nice work. Board sounds good.

[Farfensound]

I can't put my finger on it but it gave me goosebumps.

I'm listening at home on my PC speakers that are bass heavy so I didn't hear the low mid issues mentioned already. I love the placement you have and clarity.

Waiting for you're web site.

[Bang]

Wow, I can't hear the low mid heavy thing on any of my speakers Randy.. I just hear thickness, I think the mix is quite juicy. I have a new mastering chain on the way (nseq 2 and manley vari mu) so those will surely be fun to use, much better then the equium eq, waves renn comp, t racks clipper, and timeworks mastering comp that it went through for this "psuedo master". Here is another one off the console, different guitar sound, sorry that it cuts out but I the flash drive ran out of space...

http://www.blacklinerock.com/music/i...edomaster2.mp3

Steve

[djui5]

don't worry about it Steve :)


I like how the drums are a touch punchier on this board. They seem to "bite" a little more than before, and I think it works very well with the song.

[indie]

Bangin' mix Steve! Love the thickness...how much of a jump in sonics is it over your Midas? Also, are you using that Rolls Super Compressor?
Micah

[Bang]

ok here is the link to that other tune

http://www.blacklinerock.com/music/i...edomaster2.mp3
(sorry that it just cuts out, flashdrive ran out of space)

sucks that I have to throw it through the software mastering chain but it preserves the fatness of the Neotek well enough I guess..

I think the Neotek is a huge jump from the Midas sonically, it has a completely different sound and I'm not saying the Midas is bad, but I can't do on the Midas what I can do on the Neotek.

The Roll Music Super Stereo limiter was not used for these mixes but you will surely hear it on all my mixes to come as I will be receiving the production units soon. The Super Stereos are my favorite compressors out now for drums, two buss, and mastering. Justin from Roll Music is a genius of a designer and when he made me the first one of those things, it made all my mixes glue like no other comp I've heard. If you are interested and want to find out more about the Roll Music Stereo Compressor please PM me or email me at blacklinemusic@aol.com, I will be taking preorders... sorry for the little tangent here but you guys are going to flip when you hear that thing!

I'll be selling them via my new website which I'll announce soon, the first units will be shipping within the next few weeks and I would be glad to give all interested parties a taste by offering a "you send me a wav, I'll throw it through the RMS Super Stereo and send it back".. which is a great way to hear what this compressor can do for your mixes...

Steve

[FireMoon]

Cymbals sound a tad frazzy to me and that top end of the mid sounds very digital. overall its the sort of sound record co exacs are looking for but not really my bag sonically.

I know there is a real battle to impress , to stand out, to be noticed in a world with a million and one other distractions. However, by the time a track like this is rammed through a radio stations compressors or, a tv stations, it will be even more *forward* mix wise.

The net effect is often that instead of reaching over thinking ....yeah yes turn this up, you are thinking .........damn thats loud turn it down.

I understand the pressure from bands led by record cos and what they hear elsewhere for this *loud* sound with loads of midrange thrown at you almost splatter gun like but... and this is a real big but in my book.

There is a massive difference between loudness and volume..Loud is a pejorative word with a meaning that hints at uncomfortable. Volme sees to suggest headroom and space.

Thing is, i have albums that were recorded 30 years ago that i can crank right up and they just get bigger. You don't even realise the volume you are actually istening at unitl you notice you have almost shout to talk to the person next to you.

A lot of modern stuff has collapsed into a morass of edgy midrange and tangled sound way way before they reach anything like that volume even though the average RMS levels are probalby something like 3-6db higher.


There is a knock on effect psycho acoustically as well. The in your face upper mids tire the ears and the brain a lot quicker than something a little more laid back sonically.

Albums use to be about 35-38 mins long now they are often almost an hour. It is often hard work just listening all the way through many modern albums simply because your ears are thinking can i have a rest please ?? there is just too much info to process comfortably.

I can understand that there is a circle, in which ,as an engineer/producer you are the middle trying to serve the aspirations of both a record co and the artist. The artist usally wants what is the *current sound* no matter whether it suits them or not and if you want to make aliving you have to often go along with things maybe your own preferences dont agree with.

This is not some implied criticism of your work , which is pretty damn good, but this track does encompass much of what i feel about modern mixing methods.

This whole loudness thing goes back to, and this is according to the bloke himself. Pete Waterman of the Stock Aitken Waterman production team. They did it to people like Kylie Minogue to make the record seem to jump out on the radio by pushing the whole RMS up louder so the peaks didnt trip the BBC radio limiters.

Thing was with their sort of casio bum whacka bum whacka bum whacka toy town backings it could easily be done. You ramped up the the kick and pushed the vpice right out their cos it wasn't fighting for midrange space with anything but the odd beep beep noise or totally synthetic string sound.

This started a trend, which bands like Oasis later picked up on , again inpsired by Dance music mixes where they wanted their guitar tracks "As loud as that mate".
Again its alot easier to whack up the average RMS on a dance/rnb track where the midrange is virtually nothing but a synth going squelch squelch squelch than it is with the much more complex sounds of a guitar.

Whether we like it or not the trend had been started and right now we all seem to be chasing our tails until we reach a point where RMS and Peak have no meaning and the tracks will just flat line at 0 db for their entire duration.

It might sound a little jokey, but you can bet someone is working on it, and if it succeeeds everyone will want that as well.


Like i say i am not having a dig at you , just using this track to air a few thoughts on what is seemingly expected of a recording session these days and whether we are, to some degree, a little guilty of cheating the bands/artists by pandering to fashion.

I have only been working with digital wholly, for some 18 months and it has been a massive learning curve for me. That upper mids region is so apparent, taming it seems to be my lifes work and even now i think i am just about coming to terms with it.

I have was never so actually physically *tired* after working a long session with analogue tape as i was in the early days of digtal only. Things i though were instinct i have had to competley re-learn for digital.

Anyway, my apologies if i seem to have wandered off at some tangent but hearing this track did bring to the fore some of the thoughts i have had of late and am interested to know if im the only one thinks "loud" and "volume" mean very different things.

[silent E]

Very nice!
The drums don't seem to be quite as big as some previous mixes, or at least not taking up as much space. Certainly not a criticism, just an observation. Are you riding the crashes ala AW?
Nice textures with rhythm guitars, layering, doubling, delays, etc.
Stupid question, but are there older mixes of the same tunes posted for reference?Sounds great!

Jed

[Bang]

Hey Jed, a lot of engineers like my old mixes because I mixed the drums pretty damn loud and big.. Engineers love drums.. but the overall impact of the song I think on some of those older mixes is lost.. I think the drums in my newer mixes "fit" better, and have more depth and tone but still punch. I definitely mix my snare a bit softer then I used to but in return, I can master louder and the guitars sound bigger. Having said all that, I just mastered the first mp3 through the analog mastering chain (instead of plugins) and I definitely notice a huge difference in the size of the drums... maybe thats what you hear in some of my prior stuff.. maybe I'll post that for comparison.. and unfortunately I don't have prior mixes of these on older stuff..

As for the firemoon, I just don't want to go into that... I've been there already, had that arguement. Labels want it loud, so I try to do that without making it sound shitty. I've never heard any of my mastered mixes that sound as good as my unmastered mixes but thats life... The upper midrange being digital I think is subjective but I can tell you that the mp3 conversion has a lot to do with it, a/bing the mp3 vs the wav in my workstation shows a bit of fizziness added to the mp3, but for the mostpart, my converter is pretty good..

[silent E]

Not slamming your new work at all, it's excellent. These drums definitely fit the style of music and production, much better than the older huge drums.
They seem to be panned narrower and slightly more forward in the soundstage, that's probably some of what I'm hearing, so they take up less mix "real estate."
Sorry for another AW reference, but more like recent AW (Velvet Revolver comes to mind) and less like Helmet.
The power with a little more finesse and ear candy.

Jed

[djui5]

Second track sounds nice too Steve.

I like the busting in of the chorus

[Higgs]

Sounds damn good here. Top shelf work.

Any chance you could post some pre-mastered samples of some of your work?

[AlexLakis]

Awesome mix, man. I used to mix my drums louder (The first house engineering job I had, the owner was a drummer), almost on general principle, now I'm in the same boat. Grade A mix and recording, most definitely.

[Bang]

Thank you Alex.

As I've matured as a mixer, I've come to realize that a mix is more then just drums that smack into your face. I used to love mixing the drums bigger because engineers would tell me how great the drums sounded because again, we all just love big drums. But now I care more about the mix as a whole, I listen back to some of those older mixes and I get irritated by the fact that everything is revolving around the kick and snare. I think these new mixes are just as punchy as my old stuff but with a warmer and thicker low end, fatter guitar tone, and more balance.

I like them a lot more then my prior stuff, when I run them through a proper mastering chain it'll probably get even better, although again, the software didn't do a bad job this time around. And of course the whole mp3 thing still doesn't do it for me, a/bing the wav and mp3 in my workstation just pisses me off, I don't do it anymore.. The winlame captures some of the vibe but it screws with the cymbals pretty badly. But the theme of this thread should be that Neoteks rock. Right now the board is pretty stock, but my tech and I will try some simple chip mods on the summing amps and line inputs to see what that does. But I wouldn't be surprised if I keep it stock, its just a great sounding board..

Steve

[Timothy Lawler]

Listening to version 1 and loving the depth and soundstage. At 2:52 The sweetness of the guitar line, and how it contrasts with the heavier sonority just kills me. One of those mixes where I can hear every detail yet all the lines are clear and strong… nothing steps on anything else.

Tim

[w2w]

Cmon, lets see a pic of that bad boy!! Im on my 2nd Neotek & I have always thought they were one of the best "bang" for the bucks out there,you really cant go wrong with em....nice job!!

[heyman]

Bang, how's about giving a New Englander a job out there working for you.

Your my hero...

Great job..

[superburtm]

Ya bring the pics! I think that Neotek sounds thick and warm!

[Bang]

here is a little pic I took. Teale is building custom oak side desks to go along with it which we will fill up with RMS Super Stereo limiters and maybe a distressor or three.. My tech is also going to mess around with some different chips in the summing amps and line ins so prepare for some a/bs.. but so far the sound surely ain't broke and doesn't need any fixing to my ears...

Steve

[superburtm]

very cool Bang. How much did that baby cost?

[silent E]

Very nice. Those aren't Truth's, you using ASP8's now?

Jed

[Bang]

I sold the Truths and got some Genelecs and NS10s (which is what I did the mixes above on).. it seems thats what everyone wants to hear in these parts "yeah it sounds good on your Truths but in order to really hear it I need to hear it on NS10s or 1031s".. A friend of mine had the ASP8s in his 5.1 room which he shrank to a 2.1 room so he gave me these Events in trade for some mixing and despite my prior thoughts that they lacked low mids, I think they sound great paired with the KRK sub. The gennies and NS10s are awaiting custom stands which Teal is making right now.

The room sounds so good its scarey. I was jamming Zep II and I could hear stuff in the breakdown of Whole Lotta Love that I never knew was there. Imaging is very clear, and with the sub, I have a very flat spectrum from 40hz up. There is absolutely NO surprises when moving mixes outside the room which is always a great feeling. Teal is going to be making a whole line of super affordable bass traps and diffusors which I'll be selling on the new page btw.. and if you're in LA he can do custom room installs.. PM me if anyone is interested..

Steve

[XHipHop]

Very nice!

I wish my patchbay was on that side!

[Ahellam]

Sounds awesome, everything sounds perfect to me. I love how the cymbals sound. How do you do your overheads and how much do your room mics contribute to the overall sound of the drums in these mixes?

[Alexi]

man,

nice mix but the nare drowns.................i need more snare

[Prickstein]

Hmmm, dunno dude. Where's the danger? It's a very "safe" sounding, well polished demo to me. Reminds me of the recordings the kids at the local uni are doing, which are pretty damn good i might add, but not yet sounding like a big release. I really couldn't get past the sound replacing on the drums. It doesn't yet sound quite finished to me, there is a lot of space for creativity with subtle delays coming off the vocals etc.
It sounds like it was recorded with some very nice gear though, very good clean signal. Now go f&%k that s#@t up and make it jump out man! Rock n Roll aint suppose to be pretty.

[prismtheory]

Well opinion wise posting your work online is bound to draw attention to all of the jaded engineers who just have to throw out their opinions like you're going to go back and revamp your work based on what they suggested.


The mix sounds great dude....I especially love the way the kick and snare have that nice thwack sound. Despite snide comments I think you did the "song" justice. I've heard a lot of great stuff about Neotek. I'd love to get one if it were a feasable solution. Take care bro.

-Christopher

[i51423]

Jesus. Great work.

[Matt Grondin]

There sure is a lot of compression... whether it's too much or not is in the eye, or ear, of the beholder I guess. I prefer less, but that's me. A good example, for me, of a hard rock record that has enough compression to kick ass and still sound natural, would be Tool's Aenima. I think that's one of the best sounding rock records ever, and the material is stellar. Keep up the work though... it sounds just about right for today's radio sound.