Work in Progress

[tubesandteles]

Comments? This is the latest song that I've been working on. I've employed alot of new ideas that I have recently picked up in my mixing. Hope you enjoy. I plan to redo the vox when I get my Pearlman next week. But I think the instruments are 95% to their potential. I know it is long, so I can spare myself from 'CUT IT TO 3 and a half minutes!'

[tubesandteles]

Anything?
One thing that I am wondering...
I can put an L2 on the ST buss and it brings it up alot hotter, but it seems like it may be hot enough the way it is. However, I like modern music...do you guy/gals think that I should make it hotter?

[tubesandteles]

Seems to work for the other folks...

[djui5]

Drum timing is really shaky, and the drums are pretty weak sounding.

Vox sound pretty bad, but you said your re-tracking them.


Song is kinda cool, but is lacking things. It's a little boring to be honest.

Keep working at it. I can hear where your going.

[tubesandteles]

Hey,
When you say weak sounding, does that mean they should be louder in the mix? I didn't do any drum edits. I just kept exactly what I played on the track on the drums. Should I go through and pick the best/ most on time parts and make loops. What kinds of things could I do to make it more exciting. I'm going for a reflective moody kind of feel. Thanks for your feedback.

[djui5]

Originally Posted by tubesandteles

Hey,
When you say weak sounding, does that mean they should be louder in the mix?

No, it's the performance. You are not hitting the drums hard, and it sounds funny. Even though your playing a slow song, you can hit the drums hard enough to get them to sound good without doing the Tommy Lee pounding thing. There is a way to snap your wrist that cracks the drums and bring a nice tone out of them. Tempo is up to you, I'm mearly talking about the hit of the drum. Make sense?

I didn't do any drum edits. I just kept exactly what I played on the track on the drums. Should I go through and pick the best/ most on time parts and make loops.

Yep, or re-track them.

What kinds of things could I do to make it more exciting. I'm going for a reflective moody kind of feel. Thanks for your feedback.

Your acoustic guitar is pretty hollow sounding. If you like that kinda thing, it's ok, but I'd recommend doing something effect wise to make it sound a bit more exciting.
The drums being played "better" will help a lot. Also, when they kick in, everything else goes away for the most part. Might wanna work on that.

The dist guitar needs some life too. It's playing a touch too late IMO. It's dragging the song along. This is a "spacey and moody" song, but you don't want to drag it along and bore the listener. The spacey and moody sound should come a little from your instruments, and a little more from verbs and such in the mix down.

[tubesandteles]

Anyone want to add to this?
Thanks everyone!
:)

[DeeDrive]

are you playing 2 snare drums? Flams? Sounds a little funny, almost like a delay. Lose some of the compression on the vocals, it's too much. Also, the distorted guitar is too far back in the mix, try panning it off to one side. In fact, the whole mix seems a little too "centered". I don't think the drums sound too bad, the tones are good, just the timing is a little funky and they could probably use some overall compression on the master drum bus. Good start, keep trying different things, definitely do a little more panning.

[tubesandteles]

Does it sound like I used cheapo gear? I've decided that over a certain level of gear...it HAS to be decent... But, SKILL, is the only thing that will get things sounding expensive! Does this recording (minus the vox) sound cheapo?

[AlexLakis]

You definately have the equipment and potential fidelity to make a "professional" sounding recording, especially by today's standards. It's mostly in the mix. The drums do sound weak. The hi hat is sounding too shakery. There's not a very good image of the drumset...sounds like the kick isn't part of the kit. Room mics would help this out.

If it sounds better after the L2, then use it! I wouldn't recommend using it to squeeze more than a couple of dbs, tho. Also, if you're planning on having this mastered, remember, that's what you pay them for!

Spacey and moody doesn't necessarily mean distant. The guitars (and the drums as well) lack presence in the mix...Bring out the meat in these and you should have a more "expensive " sounding mix.

[tubesandteles]

Hey alex,
You are correct, the kick was not in the room. Both the kick and snare have a blended replacement. I am interested to know what you mean about bringing out the meat in the guitars...then you said presence.
So do you mean highs or lows....or do you mean midrange meat. The electric guitar in the mix is a 57 on a Marhsall cab with a JCM2000 DSL. Should I just bring up the volume, maybe do a somewhat hard pan and double track two electric guitar parts? Also, I am interested in more discussion about the drums. My drum playing sucks and I know it. I am looking to do really straight forward sounding solid drum beats. For some reason, it is important for me to do this particular project on my own entirely. I know this might not be good logic, alot of people are better at different things, but I want this to be my true solo project. Anyway, so I was trying to stay away from the toms in that recording, they scare me a little..LOL, but I am feeling a little more confident about the toms. So, my original setup was two oktava Mk012s as cymbal mics, 57 on snare, KSM 32 on Floor tom, and Rode NTK on high tom (not that I hit the toms anyway. After talking with someone about using a mono OH mic...and copying the OH to a seperate track and moving it a few milliseconds and doing a hard pan. Well, that is what I did. In addition, I replaced the snare and kick with some samples that I really like. I will have a Pearlman by tomorrow, so I will experiment with that as a room mic. Any suggestions about how to improve those things about the drums aside from the way they are played?

[AlexLakis]

Hey, Tubesandteles!

I think the word I was meaning to use for the electric guitar is "bite." I find that most of the definition and presence of modern electric guitars is in the upper mid/lower high frequencies. Try boosting somewhere between 3-6K. Most modern rock records have, like, a 10db (AT LEAST) bump in between that range. I've seen some producers and engineers get pretty ruthless and extreme with it. This tune shouldn't need that much...just experiment a little with it.

I definately think that doubling (or even quadrupling) the electric guitar and hard panning might give you more of what you're looking for in this song...at least, that's what I hear.

As far as the acoustic guitar, I think you might focus on the opposite...it needs more body, more warmth, more fundamental frequencies.

The drums...you did use a room mic, eh? Maybe bump that up a little in the mix. For me, at least, it's pretty important to have a cohesive picture of a drumset when I'm listening to rock. One thing you might find that helps this is bussing the drums and then slapping some light reverb on it...give the drums their own space as a whole...This works especially well when sound replacement has been used. Might as well throw a little compression on the bus while you're at it too.

Also, it sounds like your sample for the snare is either slightly ahead or slightly behind the original...Makes every hit sound like a flam...this might be what you're going for, but aligning the two may give your snare sound more punch overall in the mix.

Keep us posted!

[tubesandteles]

That is really helpful. I'm actually glad that the guitar track needs more bite. I was fearful about getting too much highend because I was using a Tele. I could definately experiment with positioning of the mic a little more, it is hard to see through the Marshall's black grill cloth. Nothing bad has been said about the Bass. LOL...Does that mean it is too low in the mix, or okay? I don't really care to get a bass amp, I would like to stay with doing it Direct.
I purposely wanted the snare to sound like a flam, but the aligning thing would probably be a good idea. One of the reasons I did the doubling of the OH mic was because I used my Vintech x73i pre that I love on it and the other OH was just a Motu 896HD pre.
On the acoustic, I stereo mic'd my parlor size Gibson Cascade with the Oktavas, but chose to only use the mic pointing towards the 12th fret. I think I will experiment with placing a LDC closer to the soundhole to get more body and bottom.
Thanks Alex.
You have some pretty big creds to your name. KEEP HELPING ME! :) This is good stuff. None of those ...' use your ears answers ' :) Do you have any mixes up that I could listen to?
Thanks.

[AlexLakis]

I always keep a flashlight on hand to shine inside of guitar cabs to find the speaker(s). One speaker may have more definition than the other. You'll might find more bite on the outer portion of the cone too, as opposed to the center. Teles rock, but they're very hit or miss for me...a track either really needs one or it really doesn't.

The bass seems to be all right. Most people just go direct, especially session musicians who have their own badass heads and compressors (they hate lugging their cabs around). I'm kind of going thru a personal metamorphasis as far as mixing bass goes, so I have chosen to abstain from opinions on it lately. Either way, I don't see any glaring problems with it, mix around it for now, then see if it still fits later on.

I kinda like the flam thing, if you don't mind it being physically impossible to play.

If you don't like sticking a mic right in front of the sound hole on acoustic, I've gotten plenty of body by using another two mic technique...a SDC (I love SM81s for this), pointed probably much like you had it, towards the 12th fret (gets lotsa string sound), and a LDC (U87, TLM103, MXL993, whatever you've got) behind the players right shoulder, pointing towards the sound hole. I've had many of my best acoustic sounds come from this technique, but I've found that it only does very well in a good sounding room. Gets a nice natural image for me. Just had a flashback of a wonderful 12-string Taylor I recorded for this metal band...Mmmm, Taylors...

Anyways, I'm always glad to offer my opinion. People have been complaining that this section gets ignored for the most part, so I've been trying to comment as much as I can. Personally, I hate the whole "use your ears" comments too...I figure people posting are gonna use their ears in the first place cuz it's their job, or they can't cuz they can't rent the equipment or don't have the time.

I'm currently mixing a cover song that's going to be on an upcoming Bad Religion tribute album. I'll post it once I'm done (then you can tell me how much the bass sucks).

[Jeff19]

i didn't read through all of the replies, but here's what i thought.

i think the bass comes in pretty weak. maybe it would be better to bring it in with the vocals? it also could probably use more compression. it's certaintly not bad overall. also the electric guitar in the background in the begining is a bit cheezy, but honestly that just a personal opinion.

i think the high pitched background vocals that are present during the majority of the song are honestly annoying. i think they take away from the song. maybe try a lower voice and make it MUCH more intermittent. maybe like during certain parts of the chorus, occasionally during the verse?

the chorus needs a lot of work. maybe a kick or snare hit or two to lead in with the electric guitars. is there a crash symbol in there anywhere? i don't really hear one. you need something solid to give some passion to the chours with the guitars. your electric guitar is much too far back in the chorus. for starters record it twice and pan it left right. then raise the level.

oops just re-read the thread and it sounds a bit harsh. i'm just trying to help. i really liked the reverse effect at the end. the electric guitars during the chours are really hiding some good stuff. i think there is a pretty good song hidden in there somewhere. you just need to uncover it.

[AlexLakis]

Oh, I forgot to mention before...if you don't play the tom, don't use the mic!