Upgrading studio to rerecord this group...advice? Violin, Flute, piano, vox

[Elsteve9]

This is a group I just finished recording. They've let me know that they intend to record a second project with me in the very near future, so I'm looking to correct some problems in my studio, hopefully to make the second project better than the first.

I have my own ideas of problems, from my work flow, etc.
Would anyone care to give input on this?


Please ask any questions, etc. But I'm not posting gear so that this doesn't color opinions until you've heard the track.

Many thanks for any input,

Stephen

[klaukholm]

This is just my opinion and I will not sugarcoat it.

I think the violin is far too close to the mic.
All of the intruments sound very dry. The piano is quite bright, definately not a bosendorfer.
I would put them in a more warm and reverberant space.
Maybe you should try recording them with a main pair (omis?) and just highlight the individual intruments with spots - even then I would put some more distance to the violin; 2 feet maybe.
Try an omni or wide cardoid on the piano instead and see if you like it.
How would they feel about maybe doing this "live" as a group? It sounds a bit like they were tracked individually.

good luck!

kjetil

[borau]

Originally Posted by Elsteve9

This is a group I just finished recording. They've let me know that they intend to record a second project with me in the very near future, so I'm looking to correct some problems in my studio, hopefully to make the second project better than the first.

I have my own ideas of problems, from my work flow, etc.
Would anyone care to give input on this?


Please ask any questions, etc. But I'm not posting gear so that this doesn't color opinions until you've heard the track.

Many thanks for any input,

Stephen

First of all, the result of this project was obviously pleasing to your clients since they are comming back....That's the most important thing, so please keep this in mind when i have the following criticism:

-Get rid of the Ubernasty sampled piano...people are litteraly giving away upright pianos, you will only have to pay for transport and tuning. That will give a much better result. More intimate, more organic, more musical. Perhaps not as slick, so that, if wanted, must come from other elements of your production.

-The violin is crathcy and thin sounding. Remember that strings don't have to be miced from above. Often from the side where the f-holde is projecting the sound (Audience point of wiev) you can get a very full nice balanced sound even pretty close. This is basically the direction from which stringed instruments was meant to be heard.... Very neat trick for recording strings in small rooms, where main pairs isn't really much of an option. Which I presume is your situation.

-Also i think a lot of the "scrathiness" both in the violin and the vocals could be cured by the use of a nice ribbon microphone. My suggestion for a cheap one that will do this very, very nicely is the beyer M160.
But please do combine this with a room pair.

-Your recording lacks a bit of space and width, smart use of room mics, and reverbs can do the trick. It doesn't have to be much, just subtle sounds from far out in the stereofield can give a big impression.

-You are panning the instruments too closely togheter.


So, heres your invest in list;

-A decent(even for free) upright piano.
-A decent ribbon microphone.
-A pair of an ok type of microphone, which is not too bright for room mics.

Also, any upgrades in room acoustics, both in the space you record and the space you mix, is a very cool thing to have as a bonus when doing a second project for an artist.
Gives a natural feeling of progress compared to the last session.

Good Luck!

[klaukholm]

If you are going with sampled piano I would recommend the GRANDIOSO BöSENDORFER 290, www.postpiano.com.

kjetil

[borau]

Why? That'll cost him more than a REAL upright...... And sound, well like a fake thing.

Imho, Theres no fake instrument that will fit your bill.

[Elsteve9]

The piano is something I struggled with.
I actually bought the malsmsjo acoustic grand, but it was SO dark (sounded like an acoustic guitar with 3-year old crud-coated strings. it was REALLY dark. But a cool tone, in the right setting, I suppose) that I just didn't think it fit.
I also, of course, tried the Gigapiano II, but it was so FREAKING bright it was unusable. Holy crap, that thing was bright...
I didn't really have anything in between...except an old 'MegaPiano.' Yep. 64 MB library. There are Roland Keybaords now that have 64MB grand piano samples.
But it was the closest fit! So it's what I used. On some other songs, it worked better, I think, but it really sounded like a keyboard here.

At any rate, if I bought a piano, I'd have nowhere to stick it. Then I'd also have to get mics for it, etc.
Actually, I might have enough mics...but the place to stick it is the big worry.
I had tried to get a hall at the local university to record in, but that didn't pan out, so we were stuck with my normal space: my living room.
kjetil:
Do you think that a bosendorfer library would be brighter than the malmsjo? (If you have any experience...)





I used an Oktava MC-012 on the Violin, which was a bit darker than the KSM44 I'd used before. But, as you noted, I'm really just micing it too close. I'm glad you said that; I had wondered about it myself. I should have tried moving it back farther...

At any rate, both the vocal tracks and the violin were recorded through an Aphex 207 preamp, do you think that this harshness sounds like it might be in the preamp? I had noticed that, and wonder about it often.


Thanks for this input thus far, and any more to come, it's all much appreciated.
I noticed that no-one mentioned the flute or female vocals. Do they sound OK tonally?

Thanks,
Stephen

[klaukholm]

If you want brighter, then maybe the Steinway from postpiano will fit you.
Have a listen to the samples on their webpage. I dont know the malmsjo, but the Bosy is a dark sound, but very smooth with very good pithdefinition in the bass.
($140 on their website- they even have a student discount)

The flute could be a little more intense. It sounds nice and pleasant, but slightly more proactive playing, i.e. a little more shape and a bolder sound.

As for vocals, there are so may people that know vocals better than me here.

I love how you are putting yourself out there. With that attitude you will get far!

kjetil

[john caldwell]

Overall, I like the recording and the performances. I'm least attracted to the violin timbre, which is explained by your mc012 at close distance I guess. The male voice strikes me as more successfully captured than the female voice also. I'm not as struck by the piano sound as others here; it's quite dry as was already mentioned and I think that dryness calls some attention to its inauthenticity.

Very nice work.

John-

[Elsteve9]

Thanks for your help, folks.
(Though any more input is certainly appreciated. Especially concerning the preamps)

-Stephen

[djui5]

Steve my friend!

Interesting recording.

A better piano is needed for sure.

The violin is mic'd too close like stated before. The flute also, in this kinda song needs a touch more verb.

I think the vocals were recorded ok, but the mic/pre seems to be your weak point.

My suggestions, rent some better mic's/pre's like some earthworks or DPA's and GML pre's. If you can't, then do your best with what you have. It seems the pre's are taking away from the performance a little, and adding some crappy top end. Those Octava's from china do that (the model #'s that start with M are from china)

Move the voilin and flute mic's back so you get a little more natural verb in the mix. Also, pan them out more. Like stated previously, this mix is almost mono.

[Elsteve9]

Y'know...I just looked at the .mp3 file I published here, and it IS mono.
Sorry guys, that also affected the tone of some things. I feel like I WASTED your MINDS and your TIME! But thanks for the input you offered, I'm confident that your tonal suggestions were quite right.

BTW Randy, do you ever use Gigastudio, etc? I would doubt it, as you probably don't really need fake instruments that often, but I'm curious.

Thanks everyone!

-Stephen