Rock Foo's-ey track, ITB Nuendo.Work In Progress. Crit?

LongWave · 21st July 2005, 07:26 PM

Hi,

working with a band on a new track for them.

still havent done the vocals yet (these are guide vocals, allthough, i might keep a lot of it because its pretty good).

anyway, wouldnt mind some pointers on where to go. i like the sound of it at the moment, but just wondered if there was anything that was sticking out to anyone. i havent mixed as such yet.

i have to link to you send it at the moment because my server is playing up.

http://s7.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2X...70BEE5NN2H8JM7

cheers!

LongWave · 22nd July 2005, 12:40 AM

didnt realise i could attach the mp3 here...

NOTE>>>>>>**************

new mp3 again...

LongWave · 22nd July 2005, 04:25 PM

bump!

Beezoboy · 22nd July 2005, 04:56 PM

I really can't complain too much. It sounds very good. Very polished. Big and wide. Nothing really bothers me about this mix.

Beez

LongWave · 23rd July 2005, 06:36 PM

cheers mate,

i know theres room for improvment though! but thanks for your comment!

Lawrence · 23rd July 2005, 11:35 PM

Very good indeed.

LongWave · 23rd July 2005, 11:35 PM

98 views, no more comments?

would be awesome if anyone else could chime in, i want to finish this track next week.

any crit, good or bad would be really appreciated.

LongWave · 23rd July 2005, 11:36 PM

posted that the same time you posted lawrence!

thanks for listening. was there anythign that bugged you?

Hulk · 23rd July 2005, 11:44 PM

Sounds great - well done!!

One minor thing though - I don't like the sound of the vocal - sounds harsh and at the same time muddy in the lower frequencies so I does not sit well in the mix...

What mic and preamp did you use for the vocals??

Rodney Gene · 23rd July 2005, 11:58 PM

Hey Bro I think it sounds excellent.

Nice mix...nice tones...

Vocals are the only issue. Too small..too skinny.. compared to the awesome music tracks.

Great job!

P&B,

BTW- What is the room like you are listening in? What monitors? I use 824's as my mains and this mix sounds 'correct' in this room.

djavid15 · 24th July 2005, 06:50 PM

Did anyone read his explanation saying that these are just guide vocals? Good song! I love the mix, but i feel it lacks a tiny bit in the upper mid-range, but if you do boost a bit, only do it in moderation, because I love the un-fatiguing quality of your mix. It doesn't bother my ears with super gritty highs like alot of todays songs have. Great job! Peace

bcgood · 24th July 2005, 10:15 PM

My main two suggestions are to lower or “contain” the open high hat from 2:12 to 2:27 and lower the bass frequencies overall in the final mix (although you could leave that for mastering I suppose). Until your final vocals are laid down it's really hard to make any more judgments on the mix since vocals are so important. This is a really tight band and a pretty good song even if it isn't very innovative, (sounds like many other songs in this genre). After those suggestions, just needs a good master job for the finishing touch.

bcgood

Stixxs · 24th July 2005, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hulk

Sounds great - well done!!

What mic and preamp did you use for the vocals??

X2...The rest of the signal chain, other than Nuendo would be appreciated also.

Nice job.

LongWave · 25th July 2005, 12:45 AM

in a rush, will quickly explain.

everything went though a rack of these trident pre's i have.

kick - d112 / pzm
snare - 57 / 609 on top (one aiming to shell)
snare bottom - groove tube gt57
hats - c451
tom 1 - 421
floor - atm25
oh - at 4033a's
room - tlm103 in corner through 1176

bass - dbx160x / sansamp

will type the rest later! got to go!

LongWave · 25th July 2005, 01:14 PM

ok, the rest

rhythm guitar - 57 / 609 (phase aligned) (JCM2000 / 4x12 1960)
also di'd and ran into UAD's Nigel Guitar Amp Sim

lead guitar - same...

also di'd and ran into UAD amp sim.

the clean bits run through various hardware, line 6 echo pro, line 6 mod pro, drawmer lx20, mindprint tcomp.

vox are an AT4033a (neumann didnt sound right, neither did a solidtube). this alone sounds really nice. but i added an SM7 right next to it and ran that through the mindprint valve channel and overloaded the trident pre aswell for distortion and ran it along side. had conflicting views about it, but maybe i need to turn it down, or off!

mackie 32:8 board.

LongWave · 25th July 2005, 02:19 PM

oh, the vocal pre was a joe meek vc1 on the clean signal. then vox into 1176/LA2A UAD on playback. track is also sent to the old' micropitch thing

alphajerk · 25th July 2005, 04:52 PM

did you change the snare? the version i heard had a most offensive sounding snare. like it was SR'd and gated... id like something more natural sounding for this track... otherwise everything else sounds GREAT.

PurpleGuitars · 25th July 2005, 04:57 PM

Nice track!
The Vocal could sound a little warmer, the highs on the vocal sound annoying right now, the rest sounds great man!

LongWave · 25th July 2005, 05:06 PM

no theres no sound replacer alphajerk.

theres one copy of the snare with a transient designer on it, which was up too loud. ive now lowered that. but theres no sound replacer and no gating. thats a pearl masterlower s snare. can you not tell its not sound replacer by the fact that the hits are not the same? doesnt soundreplacer only give you like 3 stages of samples or something.

yeah, the vocal thing seems to be the issue. im going to lower that distortion track loads and bring up the cleaner one. i think for the chorus's, i might try bringing in more of the dirty drum room mics a little bit to drive it a touch more.

can someone tell me if theres too much low end in the mix?
once again , thanks for the feedback and keep it coming!

alphajerk · 25th July 2005, 05:17 PM

well it seemed all the "ticks" were at the smae level regardless of the drummers dynamics... a TD will function similar to a gate. it sounded like the transient was let through and then clamped heavily down upon... there wasnt much meat to the sound when i heard it, thats all.

LongWave · 26th July 2005, 11:15 PM

right,

theres an updated mp3 at the start of the thread with a new vocal (some of its kept)and with the distortion track real low. does that fix anything?

please let me know!

cheers!

**Jules** · 26th July 2005, 11:39 PM

No Foo vibe for me

, more like Ailen Ant farm go emo... too heavy on the Auto Tuned vocal? Or perhaps its the new metal 'desperation tinged' melodies that grow old on me very quickly..

Snare Pisses me off, but I said that about your last production, if it's sampled or not you seem to be emulating "sampled sounds" on mainstream productions and that is your choice to make but to me, if you are asking, it sounds 98% soulless, (exhibit A - the fill out of the M8.. ugly..)

Another low budget but 'corperate style' / mainstream sounding production from you. If you can add a NEW & FRESH sound to bands that aren't looking back to 5 year old music trends - I bet you can and WILL fly as a sucsessfull producer..

Meanwhile..... the junior "corperate rock" thing is going very well... you just need access to better bands.

P.S. If you ARE going to get those style snare sounds a poppin, you need to delve DEEPER into the production of em and work on the sound of the FILLS to help them not sound so falce / gated, sampled / fake, ugly & ungracefull... Custom snare sounds JUST for the fills are needed to make it sound like the big boys.. IMHO.

LongWave · 26th July 2005, 11:50 PM

hey,

cheers for the input. thats great.

theres only Autotune on a couple of notes. its not running on the track constantly.

regarding the snare, ill render a mix without the transient designer on the snare copy track. thats gotta be it. but, its not samples, if you listen closely, the snare hits are different. i think its the attack that must be pissing you off. ill look at it tomrrow.

alien ant farm?!! haha. never made that connection!

cheers jules, extreemly appreciated.

**Jules** · 26th July 2005, 11:56 PM

Custom snare sounds JUST for the fills are needed

The Bull · 27th July 2005, 06:28 AM

Hi. I'm a bit new here. I liked the mix. Even the vox sounded pretty darned good. Good as some I've heard played on the radio. The only thing it seems to need in my book is some harmony parts. Other than that leave the mix alone.

Just my opinion. Others will vary, I'm sure.

Ahellam · 27th July 2005, 09:35 AM

i agree with jules to a point... I get alot of these types of bands, seems like there isnt enough low mids in general. everything sounds clean but very digital and without oomph.
more production in general, the song is so un interesting to me that it almost immediately becomes background music... harmonies, switch up the drum sounds, add more room sounds in parts etc... anything to make it not sound the same all the way through.

username · 27th July 2005, 02:19 PM

sounds realy great... the vocals are probably abit silibant.. and therers not alot of energy in the track (not realy sure why)

LongWave · 27th July 2005, 03:37 PM

its not really supposed to be overly energetic. this is pretty much how it sounds live.

noted about the siblance. cheers!

moogman · 28th July 2005, 01:46 AM

I dig the sonics of individual tracks.

My one suggestion would be to to revisit the overall level and compression settings bewteen the verses and the choruses. To me, things are a little too squashed during the latter sections - and the comp is pumping a little too much in places (personal taste). The net result is that the chorus actually sounds smaller (the band is pushed down too much by the vox), instead of bigger.

Don’t get me wrong, I'm talking about small-degree changes, not massive re-dos.

Well done!

**Jules** · 28th July 2005, 01:50 AM

kid's a talent for sure...

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21st July 2005, 07:26 PM	#1
LongWave Gear addict Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 400	Rock Foo's-ey track, ITB Nuendo.Work In Progress. Crit? Hi, working with a band on a new track for them. still havent done the vocals yet (these are guide vocals, allthough, i might keep a lot of it because its pretty good). anyway, wouldnt mind some pointers on where to go. i like the sound of it at the moment, but just wondered if there was anything that was sticking out to anyone. i havent mixed as such yet. i have to link to you send it at the moment because my server is playing up. http://s7.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2X...70BEE5NN2H8JM7 cheers!

23rd July 2005, 11:35 PM	#6
Lawrence Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 669	Very good indeed. __________________ The Audio Cave NFL Pool 2008

23rd July 2005, 11:44 PM	#9
Hulk Gear Head Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Denmark Posts: 57	Sounds great - well done!! One minor thing though - I don't like the sound of the vocal - sounds harsh and at the same time muddy in the lower frequencies so I does not sit well in the mix... What mic and preamp did you use for the vocals?? __________________ Women can fake orgasms - Men can fake entire relationships

23rd July 2005, 11:58 PM	#10
Rodney Gene Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 1,004	Hey Bro I think it sounds excellent. Nice mix...nice tones... Vocals are the only issue. Too small..too skinny.. compared to the awesome music tracks. Great job! P&B, BTW- What is the room like you are listening in? What monitors? I use 824's as my mains and this mix sounds 'correct' in this room. __________________

22nd July 2005, 04:25 PM	#3
LongWave Gear addict Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 400	bump!

22nd July 2005, 04:56 PM	#4
Beezoboy Gear addict Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 490	I really can't complain too much. It sounds very good. Very polished. Big and wide. Nothing really bothers me about this mix. Beez

23rd July 2005, 06:36 PM	#5
LongWave Gear addict Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 400	cheers mate, i know theres room for improvment though! but thanks for your comment!

23rd July 2005, 11:36 PM	#8
LongWave Gear addict Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 400	posted that the same time you posted lawrence! thanks for listening. was there anythign that bugged you?

24th July 2005, 06:50 PM	#11
djavid15 Gear maniac Join Date: May 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 223	Did anyone read his explanation saying that these are just guide vocals? Good song! I love the mix, but i feel it lacks a tiny bit in the upper mid-range, but if you do boost a bit, only do it in moderation, because I love the un-fatiguing quality of your mix. It doesn't bother my ears with super gritty highs like alot of todays songs have. Great job! Peace __________________ Dance my minions! DANCE!!!!

24th July 2005, 10:15 PM	#12
bcgood Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: West Coast Posts: 3,040	My 1 + 1 Cents My main two suggestions are to lower or “contain” the open high hat from 2:12 to 2:27 and lower the bass frequencies overall in the final mix (although you could leave that for mastering I suppose). Until your final vocals are laid down it's really hard to make any more judgments on the mix since vocals are so important. This is a really tight band and a pretty good song even if it isn't very innovative, (sounds like many other songs in this genre). After those suggestions, just needs a good master job for the finishing touch. bcgood

25th July 2005, 12:45 AM	#14
LongWave Gear addict Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 400	in a rush, will quickly explain. everything went though a rack of these trident pre's i have. kick - d112 / pzm snare - 57 / 609 on top (one aiming to shell) snare bottom - groove tube gt57 hats - c451 tom 1 - 421 floor - atm25 oh - at 4033a's room - tlm103 in corner through 1176 bass - dbx160x / sansamp will type the rest later! got to go!

25th July 2005, 01:14 PM	#15
LongWave Gear addict Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 400	ok, the rest rhythm guitar - 57 / 609 (phase aligned) (JCM2000 / 4x12 1960) also di'd and ran into UAD's Nigel Guitar Amp Sim lead guitar - same... also di'd and ran into UAD amp sim. the clean bits run through various hardware, line 6 echo pro, line 6 mod pro, drawmer lx20, mindprint tcomp. vox are an AT4033a (neumann didnt sound right, neither did a solidtube). this alone sounds really nice. but i added an SM7 right next to it and ran that through the mindprint valve channel and overloaded the trident pre aswell for distortion and ran it along side. had conflicting views about it, but maybe i need to turn it down, or off! mackie 32:8 board.

25th July 2005, 02:19 PM	#16
LongWave Gear addict Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 400	oh, the vocal pre was a joe meek vc1 on the clean signal. then vox into 1176/LA2A UAD on playback. track is also sent to the old' micropitch thing Last edited by LongWave; 25th July 2005 at 02:20 PM.. Reason: missed info

25th July 2005, 04:52 PM	#17
alphajerk There is only one Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: asheville NC Posts: 5,291	did you change the snare? the version i heard had a most offensive sounding snare. like it was SR'd and gated... id like something more natural sounding for this track... otherwise everything else sounds GREAT. __________________ "i must invent my own systems or else be enslaved by other men's'" william blake __________________________ send me a buzz @ barrett's mad laboratory 828.242.4366 email: barrett [at] alphajerk [dot] com

25th July 2005, 04:57 PM	#18
PurpleGuitars Gear nut Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Holland Posts: 94	Nice track! The Vocal could sound a little warmer, the highs on the vocal sound annoying right now, the rest sounds great man!

25th July 2005, 05:06 PM	#19
LongWave Gear addict Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 400	no theres no sound replacer alphajerk. theres one copy of the snare with a transient designer on it, which was up too loud. ive now lowered that. but theres no sound replacer and no gating. thats a pearl masterlower s snare. can you not tell its not sound replacer by the fact that the hits are not the same? doesnt soundreplacer only give you like 3 stages of samples or something. yeah, the vocal thing seems to be the issue. im going to lower that distortion track loads and bring up the cleaner one. i think for the chorus's, i might try bringing in more of the dirty drum room mics a little bit to drive it a touch more. can someone tell me if theres too much low end in the mix? once again , thanks for the feedback and keep it coming!

25th July 2005, 05:17 PM	#20
alphajerk There is only one Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: asheville NC Posts: 5,291	well it seemed all the "ticks" were at the smae level regardless of the drummers dynamics... a TD will function similar to a gate. it sounded like the transient was let through and then clamped heavily down upon... there wasnt much meat to the sound when i heard it, thats all. __________________ "i must invent my own systems or else be enslaved by other men's'" william blake __________________________ send me a buzz @ barrett's mad laboratory 828.242.4366 email: barrett [at] alphajerk [dot] com

26th July 2005, 11:15 PM	#21
LongWave Gear addict Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 400	right, theres an updated mp3 at the start of the thread with a new vocal (some of its kept)and with the distortion track real low. does that fix anything? please let me know! cheers!

26th July 2005, 11:39 PM	#22
Jules Gearslutz.com admin Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: London, UK Posts: 11,669	No Foo vibe for me , more like Ailen Ant farm go emo... too heavy on the Auto Tuned vocal? Or perhaps its the new metal 'desperation tinged' melodies that grow old on me very quickly.. Snare Pisses me off, but I said that about your last production, if it's sampled or not you seem to be emulating "sampled sounds" on mainstream productions and that is your choice to make but to me, if you are asking, it sounds 98% soulless, (exhibit A - the fill out of the M8.. ugly..) Another low budget but 'corperate style' / mainstream sounding production from you. If you can add a NEW & FRESH sound to bands that aren't looking back to 5 year old music trends - I bet you can and WILL fly as a sucsessfull producer.. Meanwhile..... the junior "corperate rock" thing is going very well... you just need access to better bands. P.S. If you ARE going to get those style snare sounds a poppin, you need to delve DEEPER into the production of em and work on the sound of the FILLS to help them not sound so falce / gated, sampled / fake, ugly & ungracefull... Custom snare sounds JUST for the fills are needed to make it sound like the big boys.. IMHO. __________________ Jules "your requirements are arbitrarily mandating a non-native solution" - Peeder

26th July 2005, 11:50 PM	#23
LongWave Gear addict Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 400	hey, cheers for the input. thats great. theres only Autotune on a couple of notes. its not running on the track constantly. regarding the snare, ill render a mix without the transient designer on the snare copy track. thats gotta be it. but, its not samples, if you listen closely, the snare hits are different. i think its the attack that must be pissing you off. ill look at it tomrrow. alien ant farm?!! haha. never made that connection! cheers jules, extreemly appreciated.

26th July 2005, 11:56 PM	#24
Jules Gearslutz.com admin Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: London, UK Posts: 11,669	Custom snare sounds JUST for the fills are needed __________________ Jules "your requirements are arbitrarily mandating a non-native solution" - Peeder

27th July 2005, 06:28 AM	#25
The Bull Gear Head Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 42	Mix Hi. I'm a bit new here. I liked the mix. Even the vox sounded pretty darned good. Good as some I've heard played on the radio. The only thing it seems to need in my book is some harmony parts. Other than that leave the mix alone. Just my opinion. Others will vary, I'm sure.

27th July 2005, 09:35 AM	#26
Ahellam Gear addict Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 419	i agree with jules to a point... I get alot of these types of bands, seems like there isnt enough low mids in general. everything sounds clean but very digital and without oomph. more production in general, the song is so un interesting to me that it almost immediately becomes background music... harmonies, switch up the drum sounds, add more room sounds in parts etc... anything to make it not sound the same all the way through. __________________ One good thing about music, when it hits you, you feel no pain.

27th July 2005, 02:19 PM	#27
username Gear maniac Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Tasmania, Australia Posts: 265	sounds realy great... the vocals are probably abit silibant.. and therers not alot of energy in the track (not realy sure why)

27th July 2005, 03:37 PM	#28
LongWave Gear addict Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 400	its not really supposed to be overly energetic. this is pretty much how it sounds live. noted about the siblance. cheers!

28th July 2005, 01:46 AM	#29
moogman Gear Head Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Pasadena Posts: 37	I dig the sonics of individual tracks. My one suggestion would be to to revisit the overall level and compression settings bewteen the verses and the choruses. To me, things are a little too squashed during the latter sections - and the comp is pumping a little too much in places (personal taste). The net result is that the chorus actually sounds smaller (the band is pushed down too much by the vox), instead of bigger. Don’t get me wrong, I'm talking about small-degree changes, not massive re-dos. Well done! __________________ Andre Knecht “We’ll fix it in the shrink-wrap” (Frank Zappa)

28th July 2005, 01:50 AM	#30
Jules Gearslutz.com admin Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: London, UK Posts: 11,669	kid's a talent for sure... __________________ Jules "your requirements are arbitrarily mandating a non-native solution" - Peeder

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