Does the beat ruin this song?

[diatonic]

Drums and pop beats are not a strong point for me. I hear a lot of potential in this song, but I'm not sure the drums are working.

Any other ideas on this one, or are the drums good enough to pitch as a demo mix?

Heartbreak (mp3)

Heartbreak (streaming with lyrics)

Heartbreak (256 kbps with no drums)

[greatgreatriver]

I would keep the drums a little less busy in the verse - I think the drums sound good in the chorus. I think the arrangement is a little distracting as well - I would remove the piano. Try the strings and slower beat on the verse together with the vocals in the verse and build up the song...

[diatonic]

Thanks, good suggestions. Do you think the busier drums should come out or just tone down? It's a drum riff played through some distortion and it does take up a lot of the mix.

I'll also try pulling out the bell piano. I was trying to fit another melodic hook in the song.

[greatgreatriver]

I would go for a half tempo beat on the verse and keep it simple and have the vocals up there in ya face... Try something and post it here.

[john caldwell]

Trust your instinct. You obviously don't trust the beat, or you wouldn't have asked the question. Agreeing with what I suspect was your gut instinct, I dislike the percussion element quite a bit. The beat massively disrupts and clutters the tune, in my view. Further, you have very static production between the verse and chorus segments, with the first meaningful modulation occurring at 2:25. The vocal, otoh, is fairly dynamic and has excellent movement into and within the chorus. So I'd suggest greatly leaning out the percussion stuff, development some momentum in the choruses principally by cleaning out the verses, and putting the chorus in the dynamic spotlight. The singer seems very capable. Is there no harmony on the hook for a reason? I'd like to hear some bigger vocals on your chorus, with a more meditative verse treatment.

Good potential here.

John-

[khaossouljiaz]

i dont like the drums either, i think you should juss awitch em' out for more simple drums that still fit the track...

[diatonic]

Good advice from both of you. I've messed with the beat a lot but haven't found anything that clicks yet in the drums.

I'm a songwriter, and pull these mixes together on my own. Thanks for the kudos on the vocals. I tend not to load up the vocals too much for a rough sketch until I feel it's in the right direction.

I could post a track without any drums if anyone wanted to mess with it?

[diatonic]

OK, decided to post a version with no drums. Anyone want to mess with it, just for fun to share here on GS?

256 kbps MP3: Heartbreak (no drums)

If you really want WAV, PM me and we can sort something out.

[butterfly]

I would maybe listen to some timblaland, aaarfg can't believe I just said that, but programming could be more effective needs a stronger foundation at the bottom, samples or ur mixing of the drums isn't that effective, getting the drums right isn't that easy, see theUtube video of Knye trying to get his kik right with Timbaland, anyway song has potential, noticed u posted in hip hop forum, maybe the way to go........there's guys there, all they do is drums and it's a art form in itself.

[Mr. Varaldo]

Originally Posted by diatonic

OK, decided to post a version with no drums. Anyone want to mess with it, just for fun to share here on GS?

256 kbps MP3: Heartbreak (no drums)

If you really want WAV, PM me and we can sort something out.

I love this song... I think it's very beautiful... perhaps I'd slow it down a bit
If I have time I'd love to give it a try with the beat...

[diatonic]

Thanks Mr. V and butterfly. I was hoping someone might bite before the contest deadline (tomorrow) :) Looks like no one will. But it would be cool if you had a chance to mess with it at some point.

[rfenergy]

Hi,

I put some drums in this for you.

It was kinda difficult because the 1/4 notes were hard to pick out on the track with the drum machine, I then mixed it with no drums mix.

Out, Robert

[Storyville]

Alternative rock style drums, not where I would have gone with it, but it works. I would do more of a timbaland style start and stop. Maybe I'll hop in this and lay something down.

The mp3 encoding takes some of the luster out, so it's hard to gauge the overall sound. But here's a little trick that might add just that extra something. On the high notes during the hook "I sing OF love", on the word "of" automate a little boost in the highs on the vocal and automate the frequency band to sweep upward a little. Maybe start at 3k and end up at 6k. Or automate a delay to kick in subtley just for the word "of". Honestly, I know it's nit picky and a bit of a gimmick, but it will pull out that note nicely.

[diatonic]

Cool, I didn't expect you to go in that direction with the drums. That's good stuff RF.

I have a WAV if anyone wants it. I don't want to put web info out in public but anyone can PM me for a link to the WAV file without drums. If enough were interested I could do stems or tracks.

[Todd]

I love the song.

I think it needs to be slower. Maybe 5 bpm or so.

I like the original drums better than RF's version, but RF did a good
job for what it was.

This is a pop/rock song. So i think it needs a hybrd approach, using
tradtional rock drums, layered with the type of loop stuff you used
in your original version.
I feel like its missing a strong bass line. (and bass sound for that matter)

This could be really good, it just needs some production tweaks.
I know changing the tempo is something you're probably not into,
cause you'd have to re-track the vocals, among other things.
But i think its worth the effort.
You have a cool voice. I always really like your tunes. :)

Send me a wav! I'd love to try my hand. I dont know if there's
a bass line in there, but you should leave it out of the mix.
I think i can do something fitting.
No drums or bass. Just the rest of the mix.
If you feel like it
TK

[diatonic]

Awesome.

I have uploaded the vocals without reverb separate from the instrumentals.

Bass and drums are gone. I've taken all the limit/comp/eq off of the mixbus. The vocals are a bit dicey in spots but hopefully some of the rough edges will disappear in the mix.

I slowed it down to 88 bpm (5 bpm lower). *

I will send you a PM with the links

Anyone else who's game, just let me know

* Not ideal but I ended up using melodyne to retime the vocals

[rfenergy]

Hi Diatonic,

I am glad you liked it. I had a bit of a tough time playing to the track because it was not how I like to monitor a mix for drum tracking (I like to have the vocals lower in the mix and a click track as well). The effects on the loop and the lack of volume control on the loop itself, made it harder to keep on the money. But over all I don't think it was too horrid. And also, you have what I would describe as a very pure voice, nice vocals.

Todd and I are on the same page, I was going to mix the drum kit with the loop. In the end I thought to mix it as minimal as possible (which is also how I recorded the drums, minimal mics in mono, my favorite "real" drum recording sound) so you could hear your song from a different angle.

The hybrid of a real kit with some loops/machines is a very good possible way to go with this song. Maybe a real kit mixed with a less busy loop/loops.

Out,
Robert

[diatonic]

Good comments RF.

The drums weren't actually loops. I played them in on my kit for the acoustic and ran that through distortion. The e-kit was keyed in with some samples to a basic pattern. Definitely too busy, no doubt.

If anyone wants to post other ideas, definitely would be cool to hear them.

[Todd]

Originally Posted by diatonic

Good comments RF.

The drums weren't actually loops. I played them in on my kit for the acoustic and ran that through distortion. The e-kit was keyed in with some samples to a basic pattern. Definitely too busy, no doubt.
.

I wouldnt necesarily say too busy. You have the right idea for sure.
I didnt much like the crash cymbal stuff. Crash ride type of stuff is
challenging to do with samples. You have to have a realy strong sample
set.
The good thing is, you write really good songs, and that's the biggest part
of any mix.
So the hard part is done.
The rest is just trying to get your message across, in an effortless,
musical fashion.

[Methlab]

Originally Posted by rfenergy

Hi,

I put some drums in this for you.

It was kinda difficult because the 1/4 notes were hard to pick out on the track with the drum machine, I then mixed it with no drums mix.

Out, Robert

That did not work to me. It needs way more feel in the drums. Whoever said Timbaland actually made a good point. It sounds very very similar to the hit he did with that no name band. Maybe too much IMO. Still good work man!

[diatonic]

ML, thanks man I appreciate the comments. I'm interested in knowing which song you hear as having a similar vibe. I am guessing you're not talking about apologize :)

[brian_delizza]

It might lean it a little in another direction but I would go for a tighter more sequenced drum feel. More of an epic psuedo-boom-bap.

and I would sink the vox in a little bit and maybe wet em up a little more.

[davew]

half-time it like a 'journey' type ballad. or same speed but more of a straight beat. the off-beat 'funk kick' distracts from the rhythm, imo.

[diatonic]

Brian, cheers for the feedback. I used to use way too much reverb, and I'm probably too far in the other direction now with dry vocals.

Dave, I like your suggestion too, will give that a go.

[Hazer]

Love the drums. Very unique, they add to the song if anything. The busy-ness of the beat works because it's so far back in the mix.

Good job, man.