rock/pop/emo mix, work in progress,feedback? - Page 2

I <3 The Beatle · 17th April 2005, 06:34 PM

Hey, I really like the sound of this!

I am shopping around for a rig right now..what's the main pieces of equipment (converters, interface, pres, compressors, etc. etc.)/mics used on this? Thank you

LongWave · 18th April 2005, 12:54 AM

it's not an expensive setup or anythign...

umm

i have a rack of these MTA pre's which i think are made by trident...
the desk was a mackie 32:8
i went into Nuendo via RME Hammerfall cards. convertors were a mackie sdr2496

i used a DBX160X as an insert on the way into nuendo on quite a few tracks..
Joe Meek VC1 on the vocals

mics, were
Kick - D112
Kick - PZM (infront)
Snare - 57, i think i had an sm7 facing the shell aswell
SnareB - Groove Tubes GT57 condensor
Tom - Sennheiser 421
Floor - Audio Technica ATM25
OH's - Audio Technica 4033a
Room - Neumann TLM103 (just in a corner)

guitars were 57 and 421
bass was di'd into the pre's. eq at desk.
vocals were sm7b.

i used the uad card a lot inside nuendo, specifically the la2a

regards
Ro.

I <3 The Beatle · 18th April 2005, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LongWave

it's not an expensive setup or anythign...

umm

i have a rack of these MTA pre's which i think are made by trident...
the desk was a mackie 32:8
i went into Nuendo via RME Hammerfall cards. convertors were a mackie sdr2496

i used a DBX160X as an insert on the way into nuendo on quite a few tracks..
Joe Meek VC1 on the vocals

mics, were
Kick - D112
Kick - PZM (infront)
Snare - 57, i think i had an sm7 facing the shell aswell
SnareB - Groove Tubes GT57 condensor
Tom - Sennheiser 421
Floor - Audio Technica ATM25
OH's - Audio Technica 4033a
Room - Neumann TLM103 (just in a corner)

guitars were 57 and 421
bass was di'd into the pre's. eq at desk.
vocals were sm7b.

i used the uad card a lot inside nuendo, specifically the la2a

regards
Ro.

Thanks a lot for posting that..very impressive

Very nice work..goes to show it's not the gear but the person behind the desk. Honestly never heard of the VC-1..that's the vocal mic? Great work again..I saw some people thought it was too gated, but I think that modern in-your-face sound is perfect for the song (chocolate or vanilla I guess...). I wish I had a decent drum room

LongWave · 18th April 2005, 08:49 AM

the vocal mic was a shure SM7.
the preamp was a Joe Meek VC1. the vc1 is a 2u rackmount.

cheers for listening:-)
hope your rig buying goes well!

Oats · 18th April 2005, 04:37 PM

guess i would agree about the mids-- even for a modern recording. i was also hearing some competition frequency wise between the lead vocal and some of the other highs. i also agree about keepin it loose-- but that isn't out of line with, say, my chemical romance. really nice work though-- obviously recorded immaculately...

Stixxs · 18th August 2005, 04:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LongWave

it's not an expensive setup or anythign...

umm

i have a rack of these MTA pre's which i think are made by trident...
the desk was a mackie 32:8
i went into Nuendo via RME Hammerfall cards. convertors were a mackie sdr2496

i used a DBX160X as an insert on the way into nuendo on quite a few tracks..
Joe Meek VC1 on the vocals

mics, were
Kick - D112
Kick - PZM (infront)
Snare - 57, i think i had an sm7 facing the shell aswell
SnareB - Groove Tubes GT57 condensor
Tom - Sennheiser 421
Floor - Audio Technica ATM25
OH's - Audio Technica 4033a
Room - Neumann TLM103 (just in a corner)

guitars were 57 and 421
bass was di'd into the pre's. eq at desk.
vocals were sm7b.

i used the uad card a lot inside nuendo, specifically the la2a

regards
Ro.

LongWave,

A question about mastering, did you do it...or send it out? Was the bottom that thick coming of the 2 buss...or are you using a sub effect?

Thx

dasbin · 18th August 2005, 04:45 AM

I think I'm hearing the EQ too much on the overheads. It sounds like you added a lot of ultra-high. I see where you're going with this... to me the best-sounding rock/pop/emo mixes have cymbal sound that is way "up above" the rest of the mix, very seperate and very high. However I think you need fantastic mics and a fantastic EQ to accomplish this well. You did the technique right probably, but the gear isn't up to it, so it just ended up making things sound very metallic and strange.
So I think you'd be better off backing off the EQ quite a bit, and just shooting for slightly "darker" and less present overheads. Back off the EQ and DON'T compensate by turning up their volume. Just let them be what they are, a little lower down both in frequency and volume. Actually you may want to consider also moving the centre-point of that EQ boost up even higher, so it less affects the annoying 9Khz range.

Guitars are missing meat for sure. They have good tone I just think they need some EQ work. At least they don't need retracking. Just beef em up. Scoop is good but you lost their guts and presence in the process.

Bass is great.

Didn't like the ultra-bright verb you have on the kick and snare. Sounds unnatural.

Backup vox are pretty good. Lead vox aren't super "up front" like I prefer to hear in this genre, but at least they cut through the mix. This isn't going to change so long as you stick with an SM7 I think.
However there's something a little strange going on with the stereo stage, I think maybe because of the verb? Nothing sounds like it's right in the middle of the mix. Even the lead vocals sound like they're above my head rather than in front of my face. Snare sounds a little off to the left.. reverb?
I want to picture the singer right in front of my nose.

Here, I did some EQ, multiband compression, and stereo narrowing on this... it's a step in the direction I'm thinking of. Mind you it does some things as a side-effect that I don't like ("closes up" the mix a little, and guitars come in too much, but this was necessary to get the vox sounding like they're actually somewhere out in front). Also it doesn't sound as good at very low playback volumes because of less Fletcher-Munsen compensation. But if you turn it up, I like it better.
Re-mastered version of this song

In return I'd love it if you could answer as specifically as possible this:
What did you do to the 2-buss? It sounds smashed in exactly the right way. I've been searching for this kind of commercial compression or limiting for a long time... yeah it's hated around here, but the question is HOW DO YOU DO IT? An L2 smacked on a mix buss doesn't sound anything like this, nor does any multicomp I've ever used...

Also how did you get the guitar distortion? Small combo amp overdrive, or a pedal? Doesn't sound like tube unless it's the modern type (triple rectifier or something).

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18th April 2005, 04:37 PM	#35
Oats Gear interested Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Atlanta Posts: 16	hey guess i would agree about the mids-- even for a modern recording. i was also hearing some competition frequency wise between the lead vocal and some of the other highs. i also agree about keepin it loose-- but that isn't out of line with, say, my chemical romance. really nice work though-- obviously recorded immaculately...

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17th April 2005, 06:34 PM	#31
I <3 The Beatle Gear maniac Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 261	Hey, I really like the sound of this! I am shopping around for a rig right now..what's the main pieces of equipment (converters, interface, pres, compressors, etc. etc.)/mics used on this? Thank you

18th April 2005, 12:54 AM	#32
LongWave Gear addict Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 400	it's not an expensive setup or anythign... umm i have a rack of these MTA pre's which i think are made by trident... the desk was a mackie 32:8 i went into Nuendo via RME Hammerfall cards. convertors were a mackie sdr2496 i used a DBX160X as an insert on the way into nuendo on quite a few tracks.. Joe Meek VC1 on the vocals mics, were Kick - D112 Kick - PZM (infront) Snare - 57, i think i had an sm7 facing the shell aswell SnareB - Groove Tubes GT57 condensor Tom - Sennheiser 421 Floor - Audio Technica ATM25 OH's - Audio Technica 4033a Room - Neumann TLM103 (just in a corner) guitars were 57 and 421 bass was di'd into the pre's. eq at desk. vocals were sm7b. i used the uad card a lot inside nuendo, specifically the la2a regards Ro.

18th April 2005, 08:49 AM	#34
LongWave Gear addict Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 400	the vocal mic was a shure SM7. the preamp was a Joe Meek VC1. the vc1 is a 2u rackmount. cheers for listening:-) hope your rig buying goes well!

18th August 2005, 04:45 AM	#37
dasbin Gear addict Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Vancouver Posts: 412	I think I'm hearing the EQ too much on the overheads. It sounds like you added a lot of ultra-high. I see where you're going with this... to me the best-sounding rock/pop/emo mixes have cymbal sound that is way "up above" the rest of the mix, very seperate and very high. However I think you need fantastic mics and a fantastic EQ to accomplish this well. You did the technique right probably, but the gear isn't up to it, so it just ended up making things sound very metallic and strange. So I think you'd be better off backing off the EQ quite a bit, and just shooting for slightly "darker" and less present overheads. Back off the EQ and DON'T compensate by turning up their volume. Just let them be what they are, a little lower down both in frequency and volume. Actually you may want to consider also moving the centre-point of that EQ boost up even higher, so it less affects the annoying 9Khz range. Guitars are missing meat for sure. They have good tone I just think they need some EQ work. At least they don't need retracking. Just beef em up. Scoop is good but you lost their guts and presence in the process. Bass is great. Didn't like the ultra-bright verb you have on the kick and snare. Sounds unnatural. Backup vox are pretty good. Lead vox aren't super "up front" like I prefer to hear in this genre, but at least they cut through the mix. This isn't going to change so long as you stick with an SM7 I think. However there's something a little strange going on with the stereo stage, I think maybe because of the verb? Nothing sounds like it's right in the middle of the mix. Even the lead vocals sound like they're above my head rather than in front of my face. Snare sounds a little off to the left.. reverb? I want to picture the singer right in front of my nose. Here, I did some EQ, multiband compression, and stereo narrowing on this... it's a step in the direction I'm thinking of. Mind you it does some things as a side-effect that I don't like ("closes up" the mix a little, and guitars come in too much, but this was necessary to get the vox sounding like they're actually somewhere out in front). Also it doesn't sound as good at very low playback volumes because of less Fletcher-Munsen compensation. But if you turn it up, I like it better. Re-mastered version of this song In return I'd love it if you could answer as specifically as possible this: What did you do to the 2-buss? It sounds smashed in exactly the right way. I've been searching for this kind of commercial compression or limiting for a long time... yeah it's hated around here, but the question is HOW DO YOU DO IT? An L2 smacked on a mix buss doesn't sound anything like this, nor does any multicomp I've ever used... Also how did you get the guitar distortion? Small combo amp overdrive, or a pedal? Doesn't sound like tube unless it's the modern type (triple rectifier or something).