Psychedelic-ish heavy rock mix, up for critique

Jakus · 13th March 2005, 03:26 PM

Hi there!

First time poster, long-time lurker...

I'm hoping some of you guys will share your opinions on this song I recently produced/recorded (I also play violin in this band, btw). It's for a demo which I will probably remix later and get properly mastered, to put on an EP once the other songs are tracked.

Any suggestions are welcome!

Cheers,

Jake

Jakus · 18th March 2005, 02:38 AM

Anyone?.....

rainsinvelvet · 18th March 2005, 02:48 AM

Not bad...

My first impression is that the clean guitar in the beggining is a little thin..
I wouldn't mind hearing a bit more kick...
I can also hear the drum compression really pumping on the loud parts. I found it kind of distracting.( i hear it the most on the hihat)

Vocals sound nice..

Nice job otherwise

ERic

PS: what is the vox chain?

Jakus · 18th March 2005, 04:40 AM

Thanks Eric!

The thin-sounding guitars at the beginning was the sound we were going for; a bit of a contrast once everything kicks in. Fair point though.

Re: the kick, would you suggest simply more level, or re-eqing?

I agree about the pumping hi-hat (particularly around the build-up at 4:35). Will fix that.

I'm actually not all that happy with how the vox came out. The chain was Rode NTK > GR ME-1NV > RNP. I ended up de-essing and eq-ing quite a bit in the mix, as the Rode was way too bright/harsh on this vocalist (but 'twas all I owned at the time).

Cheers for the feedback,

Jake

Jakus · 18th March 2005, 10:46 AM

Hey Randy,

Thanks for the input.

I'd eq-ed a bit of top into the kick, but I guess consensus is that it needs more.

There are no samples being used. Tom mics are 2x421s and an RE20; snare is a 57 top and KSM32 on bottom. You're not the only one who's questioned whether or not they're samples

. I kind of half take that as a compliment...

I'm surprised to hear you say the vocals get lost. I guess I'm used to the way the singer sings. I actually mixed the vox a little hotter than I otherwise would have as well...

Guitars are already HPF'd at around 75, but they're boosted a few dB at around 120; maybe that's what you're hearing. Didn't sound "authoritative" enough without the low-end boost, though I'll have a bit more of a muck around with the eq. As for the emo comment, well, emo's a bit of a dirty word round here (plus I'm not sure quite what you mean by it) so I'll just leave that one alone

Thanks for listening, and commenting!

Jake

NeoVXR · 20th March 2005, 12:46 AM

this is absolutely exciting MUSIC here! I'll keep this to listen.

I love the violin.

in the finale the kick gets muffled by the reverb.
at start of vocals I would like less reverb (compared to 3:59 from where on it is great).

as for the drum compression (ducking..),
1. when I see your age, I think you are onto something, and it can only be by purpose, not by aging without developing.
2. it HAS kind of vintage effect, and you could tune it very consciously. where to use and where not..
I love it in the loud places, but not at 5:44 where it affects the hihat so much, better done with cymbals.

go for the feeling more, than for technology!

---
edit: bassguitar: same as kick, too little of mid and higher range..

NeoVXR · 20th March 2005, 02:08 AM

interesting.. I am increasingly experiencing younger artists doing "outdated" sounds, with intensity and passion! still sounds fresh.

e.g. santana and aldimeola (or at least their guitar sounds) are back.. becoming idols again? several styles might return..

Jakus · 20th March 2005, 03:18 PM

Thanks for the kind words and suggestions, NeoVXR and Borau!

Re: the delay/verb fx, just a couple of points. Firstly, we were going for a fusion of overwhelming synthetic (over?)produced sound and rawness. Don't quite know whether we pulled it off, but that was the idea behind the extensive use of ambient fx, coupled with minimal edits and "grungy" vox/violin/heavy gtrs. Secondly, I'm pretty much over the super-dry, minimalist, "modern" production sound. If the sounds I'm pulling for my band aren't contemporary enough to "sell", I don't really care much

. I'd prefer to focus on what I think works for the music, not defaulting to what sounds are currently cool.

I have a lot of problems with accurately monitoring bass (I use Yamaha MSP-5s

) so I appreciate the advice to back off the low bass of kick/bass gtr and allow a bit more of the mids/top of these instruments to come through. Will definitely work on that. (And NeoVXR, I was planning to just automate the threshold of the compressor in the bits where the compression pumps too much. Hopefully that will sort out the problem.)

Borau, when you say the cymbals sound thin, do you mean you'd like to hear more midrange, or "trashiness", or less cymbal level overall? Just not quite sure what you mean here.

Thanks again,

Jake

P.S. The clean guitar was actually a DI-ed strat. We tried running the guitar through a few amps, but couldn't get anything we were happy with.

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20th March 2005, 12:46 AM	#6
NeoVXR Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 1,167	this is absolutely exciting MUSIC here! I'll keep this to listen. I love the violin. in the finale the kick gets muffled by the reverb. at start of vocals I would like less reverb (compared to 3:59 from where on it is great). as for the drum compression (ducking..), 1. when I see your age, I think you are onto something, and it can only be by purpose, not by aging without developing. 2. it HAS kind of vintage effect, and you could tune it very consciously. where to use and where not.. I love it in the loud places, but not at 5:44 where it affects the hihat so much, better done with cymbals. go for the feeling more, than for technology! --- edit: bassguitar: same as kick, too little of mid and higher range.. __________________ sorry 4 poor english

20th March 2005, 02:08 AM	#7
NeoVXR Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 1,167	interesting.. I am increasingly experiencing younger artists doing "outdated" sounds, with intensity and passion! still sounds fresh. e.g. santana and aldimeola (or at least their guitar sounds) are back.. becoming idols again? several styles might return.. __________________ sorry 4 poor english

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18th March 2005, 02:38 AM	#2
Jakus Gear interested Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Melbourne, Oz Posts: 7	Anyone?.....

18th March 2005, 02:48 AM	#3
rainsinvelvet Lives for gear Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: California Posts: 1,036	Not bad... My first impression is that the clean guitar in the beggining is a little thin.. I wouldn't mind hearing a bit more kick... I can also hear the drum compression really pumping on the loud parts. I found it kind of distracting.( i hear it the most on the hihat) Vocals sound nice.. Nice job otherwise ERic PS: what is the vox chain?

18th March 2005, 04:40 AM	#4
Jakus Gear interested Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Melbourne, Oz Posts: 7	Thanks Eric! The thin-sounding guitars at the beginning was the sound we were going for; a bit of a contrast once everything kicks in. Fair point though. Re: the kick, would you suggest simply more level, or re-eqing? I agree about the pumping hi-hat (particularly around the build-up at 4:35). Will fix that. I'm actually not all that happy with how the vox came out. The chain was Rode NTK > GR ME-1NV > RNP. I ended up de-essing and eq-ing quite a bit in the mix, as the Rode was way too bright/harsh on this vocalist (but 'twas all I owned at the time). Cheers for the feedback, Jake

18th March 2005, 10:46 AM	#5
Jakus Gear interested Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Melbourne, Oz Posts: 7	Hey Randy, Thanks for the input. I'd eq-ed a bit of top into the kick, but I guess consensus is that it needs more. There are no samples being used. Tom mics are 2x421s and an RE20; snare is a 57 top and KSM32 on bottom. You're not the only one who's questioned whether or not they're samples . I kind of half take that as a compliment... I'm surprised to hear you say the vocals get lost. I guess I'm used to the way the singer sings. I actually mixed the vox a little hotter than I otherwise would have as well... Guitars are already HPF'd at around 75, but they're boosted a few dB at around 120; maybe that's what you're hearing. Didn't sound "authoritative" enough without the low-end boost, though I'll have a bit more of a muck around with the eq. As for the emo comment, well, emo's a bit of a dirty word round here (plus I'm not sure quite what you mean by it) so I'll just leave that one alone Thanks for listening, and commenting! Jake

20th March 2005, 03:18 PM	#8
Jakus Gear interested Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Melbourne, Oz Posts: 7	Thanks for the kind words and suggestions, NeoVXR and Borau! Re: the delay/verb fx, just a couple of points. Firstly, we were going for a fusion of overwhelming synthetic (over?)produced sound and rawness. Don't quite know whether we pulled it off, but that was the idea behind the extensive use of ambient fx, coupled with minimal edits and "grungy" vox/violin/heavy gtrs. Secondly, I'm pretty much over the super-dry, minimalist, "modern" production sound. If the sounds I'm pulling for my band aren't contemporary enough to "sell", I don't really care much . I'd prefer to focus on what I think works for the music, not defaulting to what sounds are currently cool. I have a lot of problems with accurately monitoring bass (I use Yamaha MSP-5s ) so I appreciate the advice to back off the low bass of kick/bass gtr and allow a bit more of the mids/top of these instruments to come through. Will definitely work on that. (And NeoVXR, I was planning to just automate the threshold of the compressor in the bits where the compression pumps too much. Hopefully that will sort out the problem.) Borau, when you say the cymbals sound thin, do you mean you'd like to hear more midrange, or "trashiness", or less cymbal level overall? Just not quite sure what you mean here. Thanks again, Jake P.S. The clean guitar was actually a DI-ed strat. We tried running the guitar through a few amps, but couldn't get anything we were happy with.