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24th January 2005, 04:30 PM
| #1 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,288
| New Rock Mix (1/25 URS EQ Comparison) Here is a new rock mix that I recorded, mixed, and mastered this is the "Linkin Park" inspired first mix. www.blacklinerock.com/music/DTOSmaster5.mp3 after listening to the above mix for a bit, I wanted more bass grit, bigger guitars, and an overall more "raw" sound so I came up with this mix: www.blacklinerock.com/music/DTOSmaster6.mp3 Here is the fnal (I hope) mix with more sizzle, more lows, and just plain better to my ears. www.blacklinerock.com/music/DTOSmaster12.mp3 Steve www.bangrecording.com www.blacklinerock.com |
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24th January 2005, 06:59 PM
| #2 |
| Gear nut  Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Oregon
Posts: 144
| As usual, your quality is phenomenal. You always get that drum kit sounding like thunder. I love it. Personally, I still like the Blackline stuff. I don't know what you did with it, but I always use them for MP3 reference. Was the guitar amp for this bands song different than what was used on the Blackline songs? -John |
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24th January 2005, 07:04 PM
| #3 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,288
| Thanks for the kind words John. This new OMA mix was a completely different guitar setup. He uses a VHT Pitbull and I added in a bit of Marshall JCM 2000. Most of the Blackline stuff is Mesa Boogie. I'm doing a "rawer" remix for the band. Bigger guitars, less polished drums, and a few vocal tweaks. I'll post it soon. I might even do an ALL IN BOX with the new URS plugins.. Steve www.bangrecording.com www.blacklinerock.com |
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24th January 2005, 08:38 PM
| #4 |
| Lives for gear  Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Analog Planet
Posts: 1,359
| Hey Bang, it's your ol' pal Gearhunter. Rumor has it you got an Audient Sumo! Are you going to post mixes? It occurs to me that the Sumo can work well not just for DAW summing, but to replace or "detour" the summing on an analog board that might not have a stellar mix-bus. Like a Mackie or whatever. What are your findings so far?  ps: apparently, nobody want's to comment on ol' Gearhunter's dirty rock and roll MP3 on here. quite a few downloads, but no replies. Probably not to the taste of you modern rockers. I need to know what to do in mastering. Give a listen if you get a chance.
__________________ "It is the space between the notes that makes the music." Drew Townson AKA Gearhunter AnalogPlanet.com |
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24th January 2005, 09:31 PM
| #5 |
| Gear addict  Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: France
Posts: 369
| Sounds good. The snare and toms are a bit too loud for my taste, the snare stands too much out of the mix. I would have put the vocals more in front of the mix, and the snare behind it. In my opinion the vocals should be the center point of this song. The bass sounds a bit thin (in comparison to your BIG kick) Kick and Bass need to be tighter sounding. I feel that there is a hole between the bass and distorted guitars. The distorted guitars need some meat. The chorus could be punchier and catchier sounding. (work on the automation) I would have also opened/widened the vocals : BG vocals, distorted vocals. Around 3:00 there is a silence before it kicks in, I would have tried to fill the gap with a special effect (a long delay on the vocal for exemple). Think Andy Wallace  I was listening to Puddle of Mudd - away from me : it's a good exemple of what I hear for your mix. (listen to the balance) Well, it's just my opinion.  By the way, what is this "custom SSL comp" ? |
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24th January 2005, 10:17 PM
| #6 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,288
| Thanks for your comments. The bass for this song was supposed be deep, not really thick. The first way I went about the mix was making the guitars sound deep and wide but my new mix will have them meaner and thicker like you said. Band doesn't want the vox any higher. The band also is a huge fan of snare and kick punch so I gave that to them. I love Andy's mixing on the Puddle of Mudd stuff, it rocks! I'm still getting familiar with this tune and I'm about to do my next mix for it right... now.. so I'll report back. Gearhunter, I did pick up an Audient Sumo and I'm going to try to do some mixes with the URS eq's bypassing my Midas console. I also just picked up a vintage 33609 so I'm psyched to change my mix sounds a bit. Steve www.bangrecording.com www.blacklinerock.com |
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24th January 2005, 10:50 PM
| #7 |
| Gear addict Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: France
Posts: 369
| I listened to the mix you did for the band Blind By Noon, it sounds really great. So I am pretty sure that you can do better for this mix  |
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24th January 2005, 11:02 PM
| #8 |
| Lives for gear  Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: kansas city
Posts: 1,594
| personally I'd have the dirty guitars slightly louder in the low mids,but overall I think it sounds fantastic good song too  whats with that drum fill at 3:43? did "phil fall down the stairs?" 
__________________ Dave |
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24th January 2005, 11:57 PM
| #9 | |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Analog Planet
Posts: 1,359
| Quote:
Other famous drum fills: The "Bucket-o-fish" fill... and one of my favorites, the "Laundry chute fill". Y'know at the very end of the song after the big crash the drummer waits a few beats and then does a last little, "budddabum" on the kick and floor? I was working with a producer one time who said, "Sounds like the laundry just came down the chute!" Needless to say, we did the take over, and the drummer decided his clothes did not need to be washed. Har!
__________________ "It is the space between the notes that makes the music." Drew Townson AKA Gearhunter AnalogPlanet.com | |
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25th January 2005, 01:14 AM
| #10 |
| Lives for gear  Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Salvador, BA - Brazil
Posts: 2,525
  | Iīm also a fan of your mixes Steve, but I think this one needs more work. I like the vocals tone a lot, but thatīs pretty much everything I liked. Snare is soundreplaced right? |
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25th January 2005, 09:43 PM
| #11 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,288
| Well I took the mix in a new direction. Reamped the bass into an old tube SVT ( you can hear a lot more balls from the bass, especially the verse) and I made the guitars bigger and meaner (although these are not saturated Mesa Boogie tones, their much cleaner). I also did a trick to thicken up the kick drum a bit, I added about a 20 ms delay on it and tucked it in a tiny tiny bit to extend the resonance, or "psuedo resonate" it. I like this second mix a lot better then my Deftones/Linkin Park inspired first mix.. Let me know if you agree. Next mix I will do will be with URS A and N all in the box. Stay tuned. www.blacklinerock.com/music/DTOSmaster6.mp3 Steve www.bangrecording.com www.blacklinerock.com |
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25th January 2005, 11:21 PM
| #12 |
| Gear addict Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: France
Posts: 369
| I prefer your new mix, it's way better that the previous one in my opinion. The distorted guitars sound great now. Kick and snare sound better now : I love the roundness of your kick. Drums are a bit too loud for my taste, but if the band wants that ... As for the bass, it's still lacking something. I would try 2 things : - Mult the bass, boost a frequency in the 40 Hz - 80 Hz area, compress it to death, and blend it to the original signal. Listen to the bass on Trapt - Headstrong to give you an idea (but he plays with fingers) - Second solution, add some distortion to the bass (to the original signal or do a mult) in order to give it more personality : sometimes it works well with pick bass player. Are you still using your custom SSL comp on this new mix ? |
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25th January 2005, 11:28 PM
| #13 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,288
| Krid, I'm using the SSL custom comp until someone buys it. I have a 33609 now which I'm loving and I have the compressor in the Audient SUMO which sounds like the SSL but with less shimmer and slightly less grab. I hear that SSL sound on all my mixes so I'm excited for a change. What speakers did you listen to the DTOS mix on? I acutally did a very similar technique to what you described, except I used 60Hz as my frequency. Btw, I think Trapt Headstrong is one of Andy Wallaces finest mixes to date, its really great. Anyway, I did the 60Hz thing but during my mastering stage the mix sounded a little to sub lowey so I cut it a bit, maybe I should have left it or spent more time on the mastering eq. I think the adding a distortion mult may help some. The band really wants loud drums so those have to stay. Either way, I'm going to do the mix with some API and Neve emulating plugins from URS all in the box now.. Steve www.bangrecording.com www.blacklinerock.com |
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25th January 2005, 11:59 PM
| #14 |
| Gear addict Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: France
Posts: 369
| On Trapt Headstrong the bassist uses his fingers, it's hard to have this kind of round sound with a pick bass player. I don't know what Andy Wallace did on the bass but I never heard a bass sound like that. I am wondering if there is not an effect like an octaver.  Here is my attempt for a round bass sound whereas the bassist is playing with a pick : http://www.gearslutz.com/board/showt...threadid=24963 If the mult trick, boost a low end frequency + compression didn't work, you should try to add a bit of distortion to the bass : it might give the bass more personality. As we are speaking of bass, listen to "The Donnas - Fall Behind me" mixed by Chris Lord Alge : it sounds awesome. The bass is so perfectly mixed with the kick and guitars. I am looking forward to hear your new mix ITB with the URS plugs : it might be interesting ... |
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26th January 2005, 03:55 PM
| #15 | |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,288
| Quote:
Dim Light, thanks bro! Steve www.bangrecording.com www.blacklinerock.com | |
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26th January 2005, 10:28 PM
| #16 |
| Lives for gear  Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Sudbury, On. Canada
Posts: 1,686
| Very cool! guitars are wicked. Jason
__________________ most important gear I own are my ears! visit my band www.apparatusmusic.com www.myspace.com/apparatusnumetal |
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27th January 2005, 01:04 AM
| #17 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,288
| Ok. I just spent all afternoon mixing with the URS plugin EQs and bypassing my Midas Console and going directly into an Audient SUMO (which has basically an identical SSL compressor built in). It was long and tedious and not fun at all. It was MUCH harder to get the sounds that I wanted, and things never sat as well. Overall, I got a slightly deeper low end but this was because I just mixed more sub low mult into the mix.. and I brought the cymbals out a bit more in this mix. I tried to get the snare as punchy as my first mix so it was funny that most faders were at like 8%, and I still think the snare has less punch! The whole mix sounds rather 2D and the smack of the drums is gone. Richness of guitars is gone as well. I put a different verb on the snare to make it sit better. I was not all that thrilled with the URS stuff, the API was so so and the Neve was pretty darn good but I wouldn't use 1073s even in hardware form to mix much because they are not nearly as flexible as an SSL Black E series. Overall, these URS plugins did not sound nearly as good as my Midas Console EQ, couldn't get them RICH enough. I still think Sonalkis is king when it comes to plugin eqs. The current version of RUN on both my sites was ALL in Box (no summing bus!) with Sonalksis. However, now I want to hear Q Clone!! Still want to hear Q Clone vs URS vs Sonalksis comparisons!! Ok ok, here is the in the box mix.. yes I know its not really in the box, but I only used URS plugin eqs and didn't go in the Midas... unfortunately.. www.blacklinerock.com/music/DTOS7itb.mp3 Steve www.bangrecording.com www.blacklinerock.com |
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27th January 2005, 01:59 AM
| #18 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: kansas city
Posts: 1,594
| OK I think the second (6?) is the best though the last one is very good. Guitars are way better,
__________________ Dave |
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27th January 2005, 03:37 PM
| #19 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,288
| guitars are better in which one? the DTOS7 is the one mixed with URS plugins... Everything in the mix, especially the guitars sounds FLAT and atonal... Those URS things are a typical decent sounding eq plugin with a very fancy faceplate.... a neve and an api they are NOT!! Steve www.bangrecording.com www.blacklinerock.com |
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27th January 2005, 07:43 PM
| #20 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: kansas city
Posts: 1,594
| ah sorry the guitars are better and the overall mix is better in number 6, the second one you posted, IMHO
__________________ Dave |
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31st January 2005, 08:12 PM
| #21 |
| Gear nut Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 118
| Hey Bang, I think your mixes totally rock!! Guitars and drums sound great. Can I ask how you approach vocals when recording and mixing? I think you get a great vocal sound, especially with your own band, they always sound really big. Do you use some kind of light chorus or something? Thanks, rock on!! |
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31st January 2005, 11:16 PM
| #22 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,288
| Hey, here is another mix.. this one has a bigger bass.... tell me if its too overbearing.. www.blacklinerock.com/music/DTOSmaster12.mp3 For vox it all depends... on my own voice for the Blackline stuff its usually some delays and a pitch shifter for widening. Steve www.bangrecording.com www.blacklinerock.com |
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1st February 2005, 02:37 PM
| #23 |
| Gear addict Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: France
Posts: 369
| I like the bass : it sounds good now The bass is just a bit too loud for my taste now ... If you decrease a bit the bass level, your mix will breathe better and you will gain in clarity. What did you do on the bass ? |
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1st February 2005, 04:37 PM
| #24 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,288
| I re amped the bass again. It needs more WONK on the low notes. I think I can put the mix through a linear band eq and take out a tiny bit of 60Hz and 150Hz and all will be good. Steve www.bangrecording.com www.blacklinerock.com |
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19th February 2005, 09:08 PM
| #25 | |
| Lives for gear  Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: North Carolina
Posts: 865
 | Re: New Rock Mix (1/25 URS EQ Comparison) Quote:
 Really kick'n tune!! Sounds like Mad at Gravity. I love those guys! Let me know where I can buy these guys cd! | |
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19th February 2005, 09:56 PM
| #26 |
| Lives for gear  Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Maryland,USA
Posts: 2,382
| gtrs are way too mid rangey and honky for my taste. drums sound kinda dry, like Soundgarden "Badmotorfinger"
__________________ Drew Mazurek Artist Direct Page Mixing ITB? Just because you're not good at it, doesn't mean it sucks. |
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19th February 2005, 10:35 PM
| #27 | |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: kansas city
Posts: 1,594
| Quote:
nothing wrong with that at all that album sits squarely in my top 10 forever
__________________ Dave | |
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20th February 2005, 12:08 AM
| #28 | |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,288
| Quote:
They don't like big verby drums, and they wanted their guitars to sound like their first EP, which is a nice midrangey sound. To be honest, I like the ultra midrangey guitars, sounds different and cool. My first mix I put the guitars at like 3-4k and it didn't go over well with them... Steve www.bangrecording.com www.blacklinerock.com | |
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20th February 2005, 03:07 AM
| #29 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,167
| the master12 ist great !! nothing more to say.. the ITB mix has quite some fascinating aspects, more merciless and brute, but everything in mids and highs is coming too forward and so it feels 2D and sterile. also the bass sounds more synthetic and less exciting. do I hear a pair of sticks in the start?
__________________ sorry 4 poor english |
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20th February 2005, 02:36 PM
| #30 | |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Maryland,USA
Posts: 2,382
| Quote:
__________________ Drew Mazurek Artist Direct Page Mixing ITB? Just because you're not good at it, doesn't mean it sucks. | |
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