ITB Pop Rock mix. Let me have it.

Telecastr · 20th December 2004, 02:23 AM

here's a rough mix of a band i've been working with. it features a male singer with female BGVs. i'm especially looking for comments on the chorus. the male singer sings half of it full voice and the other half falsetto. to me, his vocals get a little lost in everything when he switches to falsetto. as of now the female vocal is sitting a little hotter in the mix because of that, hopefully helping them word to be more intelligable. looking for some constructive criticism on the vocals especially and also the rest of the mix. this is the first thing i've posted here for you all to listen to, but don't be easy on me. i won't get any better unless you tell me what you really think.

Telecastr · 20th December 2004, 07:03 AM

bump...i know one of you people have an opinion.

Telecastr · 20th December 2004, 02:08 PM

thanks randy. is the harshness the HH? i still think it may be a little high in the mix. any comments on what to do about the vocals on the chorus?

JKL · 20th December 2004, 08:11 PM

Concerning the chorus - I think the problem is that the intonation is just a bit whack. (sharp on some notes if I remember right). If you can check and change a few pitches by just a few cents I think they'll come off much better. Just listened again. Male vocal is sharp on some notes. Female seems to be on. Normally, one could get away with it, but because it goes falsetto, it draws attention to itself, and needs to be accurate. That's what I'm hearing anyways.... good tune.

Jon

Telecastr · 20th December 2004, 08:46 PM

yeah i'm going to be using some autotune here and there on his vocals throughout the entire album. the girl, however, is much better and will not need very much at all. keep the comments coming

Stixxs · 21st December 2004, 01:59 AM

Telecastr,

I hear the thinness also on the top end, but the low seem real good...nice overall balance.

Care to divulge your recording chain?

-Stixxs

atticus · 21st December 2004, 02:21 AM

I'm reasonably certain that the sonics have been impacted by the MP3 encoding. I have heard this song during the mix and it's quite a bit different.

Telecastr · 21st December 2004, 03:45 AM

here's what i used...
DW drum set
Kick - Beta 52 -> Benchmark MP2
Snare - 57 -> Sebatron VMP1000e
Rack Tom - e604 -> Benchmark MP2
Floor Tom - e604 -> Benchmark MP2
OH - T.H.E. KR25 ->Benchmark MP2
Bass - Stingray -> David Eden head direct out -> Joe Meek VC6
Elec Gtr - Tele -> Orange AD30 -> 57 -> Sebatron VMP1000e & Peluso 251 -> Benchmark MP2
really bright Larivee acoustic guitar -> Brauner Phantom C -> Benchmark MP2 & AKG C28 -> Benchmark MP2
String patch Korg Triton -> Radial JDI -> Benchmark MP2
Male Vox -> Peluso 251 -> Benchmark MP2
Female Vox -> Peluso 47 -> Sebatron VMP1000e

convertors are Benchmark System 1000 into Lynx AES16. Dual 867 G4. Logic Platinum 6.3.3 monitoring with a DAC1. as you can probably see from all the Benchmark gear, Atticus and I are friends and work together.

autotuned the vocal on the chorus.
made snare not so thin.
i guess i'm not hearing the harshness you're talking about other than the OH being too bright. is it the strings? when i throw it through an RTA, it's a pretty flat mix other than a little hump in the low end which i want. i'm not saying that an RTA is the final say, but if something like the top of everything was too harsh that would definately show up. i hope i'm not coming off as though i don't appreciate your comments Randy, i'm just looking for a little more of an explanation to the top of everything is harsh and thin so i can take care of it. the track isn't mastered yet, so in the end the mastering could help take care of that if turns out to be a huge problem.

genericperson · 21st December 2004, 07:32 AM

this song needs reverb. especially on vocals in the choruses and the snare overall.

the song is trying to be "epic" and it's hard to do that without 'verb.

try verbing up the chorus a bit and see if it gets you further along the path.

it's not a fix-all, but it's one thing that needs to be done.

especially those "ooh ooh yeah" vocals. they just sound way too up front for this song. set them back a bit with some verb or a little delay or both.

and f--k all those dorks who say reverb should never be used.

the fake strings at about 4:20-end need some verb too.

the compressor in the chorus is killing the vocal too. it's boxing it in. do you have a more transparent way to control the vocal's gain in the chorus?

on a positive note, i think the kick drum was tracked well.

Telecastr · 21st December 2004, 04:14 PM

Thanks Genericperson. i'm not a huge fan of a ton of reverb either but i will try it out. there is a fair amount of compression on the vocal during the chorus coupled with the fact that he kinda choked his voice when he flipped to falsetto. that was my biggest problem with the mix, trying to get the vocal to still be up front enough. i'll try giving the "yeah" vocal at the end an extra dose of verb and delay too. i'm not a fan of those fake strings at all. if they were a real string section, the song would sound epic. i've put a ton of verb on them already. in the end they are still fake strings. i'm a fan of the kick drum as well. thanks. beta52, dw kick, and a decent drummer.

rynugz007 · 27th December 2004, 05:15 PM

HH's seem really loud. Drums overall could use a bit of work. Toms sound like cardboard boxes. Snare doesnt have much tone to it. Its just kind of a short "pat-pat" sound. I would probably try compressing the snare more to get some ring and length out of it. Its a slow song so the length of the snare is crucial.

The electric guits sound great. I'm a big fan of the orange ad30

I can't hear much bass

chadly · 28th December 2004, 12:50 AM

Perhaps a bit too much high hat in the intro. I like the song!

Telecastr · 28th December 2004, 05:33 AM

yeah the OH were too hot in this version, and the snare was way too thin, the vox needed some autotune, reverb, and some delay.. i've worked on the mix quite a bit since i posted this, and have a final mix finished. thanks for the input though.

rynugz...you can't hear much bass in this mix? you must be more a bass fein than i am. everything system i've listened to the mix above in had too much bass in it.

chadly · 28th December 2004, 05:39 AM

Well bring on the update!!! I'd love to hear it.

thethrillfactor · 28th December 2004, 08:24 AM

It needs definition in the mid bass region.

Its a little floppy and boomy.

Its very hard to make out the kick.

Also the mix could use a lilttle gel overall(it has that ITB sound all through it). I think that's what makes the air freq's sound so seperated in the mix.

Someone mentioned already that hi harmony in the chorus.

The chorus in general needs to be bigger(too narow and congested).

Also the strings need work.

Its funny after the mini break towards the end the mix comes together better.

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21st December 2004, 02:21 AM	#7
atticus Lives for gear Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,524	I'm reasonably certain that the sonics have been impacted by the MP3 encoding. I have heard this song during the mix and it's quite a bit different. __________________ David Seymour Mytek Digital Analog Audio Works 330-354-1576 www.mytekdigital.com http://analogaudioworks.com/

27th December 2004, 05:15 PM	#11
rynugz007 Gear addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: cincinnati, OH Posts: 308	HH's seem really loud. Drums overall could use a bit of work. Toms sound like cardboard boxes. Snare doesnt have much tone to it. Its just kind of a short "pat-pat" sound. I would probably try compressing the snare more to get some ring and length out of it. Its a slow song so the length of the snare is crucial. The electric guits sound great. I'm a big fan of the orange ad30 I can't hear much bass __________________ "heres 50 bucks in case i call you a bitch later"

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20th December 2004, 07:03 AM	#2
Telecastr Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Canton, OH Posts: 600	bump...i know one of you people have an opinion.

20th December 2004, 02:08 PM	#3
Telecastr Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Canton, OH Posts: 600	thanks randy. is the harshness the HH? i still think it may be a little high in the mix. any comments on what to do about the vocals on the chorus?

20th December 2004, 08:11 PM	#4
JKL Gear maniac Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: New Mexico Posts: 198	Concerning the chorus - I think the problem is that the intonation is just a bit whack. (sharp on some notes if I remember right). If you can check and change a few pitches by just a few cents I think they'll come off much better. Just listened again. Male vocal is sharp on some notes. Female seems to be on. Normally, one could get away with it, but because it goes falsetto, it draws attention to itself, and needs to be accurate. That's what I'm hearing anyways.... good tune. Jon

20th December 2004, 08:46 PM	#5
Telecastr Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Canton, OH Posts: 600	yeah i'm going to be using some autotune here and there on his vocals throughout the entire album. the girl, however, is much better and will not need very much at all. keep the comments coming

21st December 2004, 01:59 AM	#6
Stixxs Gear nut Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: East Central Fla. Posts: 129	Telecastr, I hear the thinness also on the top end, but the low seem real good...nice overall balance. Care to divulge your recording chain? -Stixxs

21st December 2004, 03:45 AM	#8
Telecastr Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Canton, OH Posts: 600	here's what i used... DW drum set Kick - Beta 52 -> Benchmark MP2 Snare - 57 -> Sebatron VMP1000e Rack Tom - e604 -> Benchmark MP2 Floor Tom - e604 -> Benchmark MP2 OH - T.H.E. KR25 ->Benchmark MP2 Bass - Stingray -> David Eden head direct out -> Joe Meek VC6 Elec Gtr - Tele -> Orange AD30 -> 57 -> Sebatron VMP1000e & Peluso 251 -> Benchmark MP2 really bright Larivee acoustic guitar -> Brauner Phantom C -> Benchmark MP2 & AKG C28 -> Benchmark MP2 String patch Korg Triton -> Radial JDI -> Benchmark MP2 Male Vox -> Peluso 251 -> Benchmark MP2 Female Vox -> Peluso 47 -> Sebatron VMP1000e convertors are Benchmark System 1000 into Lynx AES16. Dual 867 G4. Logic Platinum 6.3.3 monitoring with a DAC1. as you can probably see from all the Benchmark gear, Atticus and I are friends and work together. autotuned the vocal on the chorus. made snare not so thin. i guess i'm not hearing the harshness you're talking about other than the OH being too bright. is it the strings? when i throw it through an RTA, it's a pretty flat mix other than a little hump in the low end which i want. i'm not saying that an RTA is the final say, but if something like the top of everything was too harsh that would definately show up. i hope i'm not coming off as though i don't appreciate your comments Randy, i'm just looking for a little more of an explanation to the top of everything is harsh and thin so i can take care of it. the track isn't mastered yet, so in the end the mastering could help take care of that if turns out to be a huge problem.

21st December 2004, 07:32 AM	#9
genericperson Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 522	this song needs reverb. especially on vocals in the choruses and the snare overall. the song is trying to be "epic" and it's hard to do that without 'verb. try verbing up the chorus a bit and see if it gets you further along the path. it's not a fix-all, but it's one thing that needs to be done. especially those "ooh ooh yeah" vocals. they just sound way too up front for this song. set them back a bit with some verb or a little delay or both. and f--k all those dorks who say reverb should never be used. the fake strings at about 4:20-end need some verb too. the compressor in the chorus is killing the vocal too. it's boxing it in. do you have a more transparent way to control the vocal's gain in the chorus? on a positive note, i think the kick drum was tracked well.

21st December 2004, 04:14 PM	#10
Telecastr Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Canton, OH Posts: 600	Thanks Genericperson. i'm not a huge fan of a ton of reverb either but i will try it out. there is a fair amount of compression on the vocal during the chorus coupled with the fact that he kinda choked his voice when he flipped to falsetto. that was my biggest problem with the mix, trying to get the vocal to still be up front enough. i'll try giving the "yeah" vocal at the end an extra dose of verb and delay too. i'm not a fan of those fake strings at all. if they were a real string section, the song would sound epic. i've put a ton of verb on them already. in the end they are still fake strings. i'm a fan of the kick drum as well. thanks. beta52, dw kick, and a decent drummer.

28th December 2004, 12:50 AM	#12
chadly Gear addict Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Midwest Posts: 492	Perhaps a bit too much high hat in the intro. I like the song!

28th December 2004, 05:33 AM	#13
Telecastr Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Canton, OH Posts: 600	yeah the OH were too hot in this version, and the snare was way too thin, the vox needed some autotune, reverb, and some delay.. i've worked on the mix quite a bit since i posted this, and have a final mix finished. thanks for the input though. rynugz...you can't hear much bass in this mix? you must be more a bass fein than i am. everything system i've listened to the mix above in had too much bass in it.

28th December 2004, 05:39 AM	#14
chadly Gear addict Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Midwest Posts: 492	Well bring on the update!!! I'd love to hear it.

28th December 2004, 08:24 AM	#15
thethrillfactor Gear Guru Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: New York City Posts: 11,152	It needs definition in the mid bass region. Its a little floppy and boomy. Its very hard to make out the kick. Also the mix could use a lilttle gel overall(it has that ITB sound all through it). I think that's what makes the air freq's sound so seperated in the mix. Someone mentioned already that hi harmony in the chorus. The chorus in general needs to be bigger(too narow and congested). Also the strings need work. Its funny after the mini break towards the end the mix comes together better.