Drums sound advice

[RichR]

Hey guys,
I wasn't sure if this was the right place to post this but I needed some advice on my drums sound (I'm not the player). I used 12 mics in different preamps without any processing whatsoever (no compression & EQ); It's not mixed and I only made some level adjustments. I wanted to know if you hear any major issues and how I could correct them in mixing and also how to prevent them at the next recording session. I should add that I only have OHs and no room mics. I'll try to include a picture of my setup.

TIA,

Rich.

P.S. I tried to upload a wav file but it was too big so I made a 320Kbps MP3.

[RichR]

[dblackburn80]

I don't hear any big issues off the top. The hi toms do sound a little shallow but thats about it.

You should be able to squeeze a great sound out of this setup.

My other advice is you should play a wide range of beats covering all parts of the kit in order for people to form an opinion that will really help you find what you're looking for.

ANIMAL!

[Machina]

Hi Rich,

taking in consideration that you have no eq and compression on the drums I have to say that I really dig the sound! Of course most of todays music and productions don't sound anywhere near a real live acoustic drumset in a room, but you have to know what you are going for. If you want a modern rock sound you'll need tons of compression (tracks, buss, parallel, ...), eq and fx at the most, but your tracks seem to be a good basis for further processing in mixing.
But if you want some criticism: Add room mics (at least one mono room, but maybe even a stereo pair, too) cause they often find more use in creating a drumsound than the overheads. And work on your kick and snare sound. More likely in choosing the right drums, tuning and mic placement than in processing.
Apart from this I'm a fan of commiting yourself to a certain sound while tracking. Kind of the vision you have sound-wise for the project you are doing. And this mostly does mean the use of eq and compression in the recording process imho.

But anyways: Good work!

Cheers,

Chris

[RichR]

Thanks for the replies guys! For a rookie, it's great to hear that I'm doing ok.

@dblackburn80:
I also felt something was lacking in the Hi toms but I kind of blamed it on lack of compression. Maybe I'll try different mic placements. I could post a few more drum tracks or just wait for whole mixes as soon as I get to that point? Thanks again...

@Chris:
The main project I'm recording (and producing) now is a mix of R&B, Rock, Jazz and World music for a solo artist. I might need to get very creative with the drums sound.
Since I had to upgrade my small studio for drums pick up, I'm limited to 12 inputs (2 OH, 2 kick, 2 snare, 3 toms, 1 Hi-hat, 1 ride, 1 crash). I'll try to leave the ride and crash for the OHs and add the room mics you recommended.
Is it possible to elaborate a little more on the work I need to do for the Kick and Snare? Thanks a lot....

[Machina]

Hi Rich,

yeah I think it would be really worth trying the stereo room mics (or even one mono if you run out of channels) and it would also contribute to a more "lively" sound. I think that's the one thing that's missing here. Also concerning kick and snare it would be nice to have a more open sound. Some "air" or how you wanna call it. At the moment it's sounding as if the snare was taped and that there's pillow or sth else in the bassdrum. Maybe not, but there could be just more tone to the drums in my opinion. And if you say you need to be creative go for sounds that have more character (another snare, different tuning, use of compressor (maybe even while tracking e.g. on the room mics) to let the drums breath with the music a.s.o.). And as I said in my previous post you could also try some additional EQing in the recording process to achieve your own sound. So get your drums sounding great in the room and as close as possible to the thing you hear in your head and THEN use your tools to emphasize what's already there!
Hard to describe but I hope you know what I mean!

Greets,

Chris

[TomPD]

Hi Rich.

Good work. I really like the sound of the kit. I'm also a rookie at this but I'm a drummer and I know what I like.

Could you please help me out and post a more detailed description of your setup as well as which mikes and pres you have used and what for?

Cheers.

[yumdrum]

Originally Posted by TomPD

Hi Rich.

Good work. I really like the sound of the kit. I'm also a rookie at this but I'm a drummer and I know what I like.

Could you please help me out and post a more detailed description of your setup as well as which mikes and pres you have used and what for?

Cheers.

6th post down. BTW Chris' mix in this thread is awesome ESPECIALLY the drum sound!
They call it Crosscore...

[yumdrum]

I think it sounds good, but agree with the previous comments. Also I keep hearing this B note ring resonating from the toms or snare every time you hit the kick. Not sure if that is intentional or not, but just thought I'd mention it.
If it's not intentional then Chris' idea of EQ on the way in or tuning the drum differently may help.

[Machina]

thanks for those kind words, yumdrum! really appreciate it!

[RichR]

Hey guys,
Sorry for the late reply.

@Chris:
You're right about the kick and snare! There is a pillow inside the bassdrum and we've used a dampening ring on the snare (no tape). It's because we were going for a Hip-Hop/R&B feel even though this song will have a strong Rock vibe to it. We also had some dampening gels on the toms. I'm kind of scared of any processing while tracking because of my lack of experience and I don't have access to a free drummer for too many re-recordings ;) By the way, I can't seem to download the song you posted in the other thread; maybe it expired?
Thanks a lot for your help.

@TomPD:
Thanks! The drum set was practically chosen by the drummer. It consists of a Yamaha Oak Custom with Remo Emperor Clear skin on toms and Powerstroke Clear on Kick; the snare is still with the yamaha skin. Also used a Zildjan cymbal pack.
I don't have a mixer so I added lots of different sounding preamps in my setup. The added mics were chosen after a LOT of reading of forums like this one :)

Here we go:

OHs: Josephson C42s > (2) A Designs Audio P-1
Kick in: RE-20 > OSA MP1-L3
Kick out: Yamaha subkick > OSA MP1-L
Snare top: Audix I5 > A Designs Audio EM-Blue
Snare bottom: SM57 > API 512c
Toms 10"&12": 421s > OSA MP1-Cs
Tom 14": 421 > Mindprint (temporarily replacing OSA pre out for repair)
Hihat: KM184 > Avalon 737
Ride: Blueberry > OSA MP1-L
Cymbal: TLM127 > Millennia STT-1

That's about it. A great book that also helped me with the recording process is "Mixing with Your Mind" by Mike Stavrou.

Hope that helps.

@ yumdrum:
Thanks for pointing that out. Since I'm not the drummer, I'm not sure if it was intentional but it should not be a problem with this song. I'll keep my ear on it though.

[Wo0d643]

i listened sounds pretty good dry like that
i dont like the kick but thats me and you still have alot of room to work
im not gonna say much here because looking at your gear list your way beyond me already. i dont put my overheads that high up with that many mics. i get em closer to the cymbals. so guess the are more cymbals mics than OH's.

anyway
my mixes arent all that great yet so take from me what you will.
Please critique my mix.

[Machina]

Hi Rich,

you're welcome! You have to scroll down maybe about 6 post in this thread. There you'll find the link to the new mp3. It crashed when GS was under maintenance, but probably that drumsound is quite different from what you wanna achieve for a R&B / HipHop / Rock kind of style

Anyways, I guess if you want a HipHop or R&B sound you need to get more into the use of samples rather than dampening kick, snare and toms and make them into something they're not IMHO. So I'd get rid of that and go for a more roomy and vivid acoustic rock sound, so you'll have that as a basis. Then you can still add some samples and/or lower the "rocking" room or real drum tracks in your mix as desired. And I'd say don't be scared with EQ and compression! Even if you're not that experienced. You don't have to do tons of it, but even a touch can really help to bring your tracks and sounds together and give you more of a "record sound" if you know what I mean. Also high-pass-filtering can do wonders. Just don't over-do it and as your raw tracks sound pretty good I'm sure you have the ear and whatever sounds good to you will be good! There are many great threads here with advices for drum recording, even detailed frequency and compression stuff that could help you in the beginning. Go for it!

Cheers,

Chris

[rhythminmind]

Over all it's very usable. Shouldn't have any problems when you start mixing. Being a drummer myself tuning is the only thing i would change. The kick is very dead. Get that pillow out of there. I would take out all damping on all the drums actually. It's easy to take away resonance but hard to increase it. After your gates & compressors having drum ring to play with is really nice. A resonate drum dosen't mean a non punchy drum. The attack & punch dosen't go anywhere. The snare sounds loose as well. I like my snares to have a tighter crack. Last thing i would change would be the hat seems a bit far away. But if your recording a hat basher i can understand.
But overall like i said very nice.

[GYMusic]

And... with a little compression they sound very nice. Helped bring out the hi-hat. They also sound good in mono, which is always something you want to check.

[James Meeker]

Kick seems tuned about a half step too high. Snare needs to be a bit wetter (loosen the snare, maybe remove some dampening for a bit of a ring). Mic placement seems pretty good, mostly tuning issues and those are totally subjective.

[RichR]

Nice...thanks for all the replies guys!

If I should sum up all the advices I've been given, it would be to go for more of a live sound at recording and mold it as I please in the mix. To also watch the tuning but I suspect that it has to do with how it sounds in the song as a whole and that each drummer likes it there own way.
Overall, the sound quality of the pick up seems to be ok and that's very good news to me. Thanks to GYMusic for the compressed version, it gave me a good idea as to how much I can get from my tracks.

Thanks again to everyone...

RichR.

P.S. Chris, I hope that my mixes can come close to yours!

[docparider88]

That was awesome !!! i wish i could get that