good enough for release???

[artapril]

Dear Mr. and Mrs. Gearslut

this is a mix I did for an australian single release.
The song has been recorded by a friend of mine three years ago to a not maintenanced 2", and after the machine almost broke down, transfered through RME convertors to Logic.
Recording took place in a 6x12ft room damped to death.
Recorded through Tascam M700 pres.

Mixed with Logic and some outboard through the M700.

I´m definitely not happy with this one, as I can´t get any punch or clarity to any of the tracks. It all sounds like listening to it from another room, to me.

Any inputs welcome.
Should I do another one, or is it good enough for a release?

Thank you in advance


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[artapril]

Thanks for the reply

I listened to it on my home stereo, and you are right (might be the doubled voc, I always tend to mix to loud)
Do you mean the vocals to be harsh, or the whole track?

[Absolute]

The is really no low end to speak of. It almost sounds like something off a small radio

[Boby Stoica]

Hello.

For my ears, it seems it lacks a bit of definition on overall(perhaps the mixer is the bad thing in this - maybe try it ITB in this case?) and the vocals are too quiet - maybe compressing the vox a bit more - there were words that I couldn't understand.

Tones sound good, - guitars and some snare hits. Indeed, muddy lows.

Sometimes, the openHH cuts too much in the mix - maybe automate in the DAW those hits can help. And more locut on the hats .

My 2cents.

[joro]

Hi,
I am a real newbie and I really don't know squat but, what I hear is a level issue more than anything else.
The vox needs to come up in the mix and be a bit drier...
the bass is booming...perhaps a slightly sharper attack or a slight mid boost and level cut to compensate after...I would fade the bass sooner at the end of the tune too man...it's just a tad too long there.
guit tones sound heavy on the high end a bit...
drums sound pretty good..I would punch up the level on the snare...and a ever so slight high cut on the brass....kick sounds good but also might come up a bit level wise...
Did you mic the toms or are they overheads only?
they sound a little far away...ya know?
Good tune man,
Joe

[Curve Dominant]

posted by artapril:
I always tend to mix too loud

STOP THAT!

Mix whisper soft.

Then you'll hear how you have to get those lead vocals up, front and center.

I only take the time to say this, because I REALLY like this song.

I don't have a problem with the lack of low end, or definition, or any other Gearslut Snobbery Anal Retentive Critiqueness. It works, the vibe, the song, the sound, it all adds up very nicely.

It's just the vocals. They're very pretty, so let's HEAR them.

Holla back for further assistance.

[Absolute]

Originally posted by Curve Dominant
STOP THAT!


I don't have a problem with the lack of low end, or definition, or any other Gearslut Snobbery Anal Retentive Critiqueness. It works, the vibe, the song, the sound, it all adds up very nicely.

Yeah just listen to Curves advise. He's the final word of all sound the human ear hears--everyone else was just trying to be a snob.

what a freakin joke

ps listen to feelin freaky on his site--the kick is louder than the vocals--but he knows all about balance

[Curve Dominant]

posted by Absolute:
ps listen to feelin freaky on his site--the kick is louder than the vocals--but he knows all about balance

Absolute,

I'm happy to note you are listening to my mixes. But Oshia's "Feelin' Freaky" and ArtApril's tune are two completely different songs in completely different styles.

I'm sorry if my post offended you, but for the sake of helping ArtApril, why don't we move past that?

My point was that, for ArtApril's song, and the style, the intrumental mix sounded fine. Not everyone's cup of tea perhaps, but it works for the song.

There are a lot of people on this forum who can help ArtApril realize the maximum potential of this mix, so let's focus on that.

Perhaps you have something constructive to offer in that regard??

[Absolute]

Originally posted by Curve Dominant
STOP THAT!

I don't have a problem with the lack of low end, or definition, or any other Gearslut Snobbery Anal Retentive Critiqueness. .

[jajjguy]

nice pop song.

the vocs start out too low, then they come up to a good level (by about halfway?).

you might retrack the vocal, actually, it sounds like a typical thing where she lacked confidence in the early part of the song and then got stronger toward the end. maybe you could warm her up on the choruses then throw her on the early verses...

the high end is a bit harsh throughout, mainly the cymbals and vocs.

i don't have any definition/clarity problems with this mix, if anything might like it to be a bit more soupy/swirly, i hear a my bloody valentine vibe in there that you might try to accentuate.

[zemlin]

Originally posted by jajjguy
[b]nice pop song.

the vocs start out too low, then they come up to a good level (by about halfway?).

I hear that too. Got to this message just about the time the vocals cleared up.

[Lee Tyler]

I´m definitely not happy with this one, as I can´t get any punch or clarity to any of the tracks

One look at the waveform on my editor tells me where your "punch" went. Death by compression/hard limiting. Also, approximately 1400 clipped samples never really did anyone any good. Withstanding the petty bullshit I see springing up on this thread that is TOTALLY uncalled for, I actually think this tune is 90% done. First and foremost, this is a cool tune with a good vibe for it's genre. In a minority this tune is! Good positioning! Few issues to deal with, some mentioned here, remix, mastering...and this could be commercial release material in NO time with little effort...in the right hands. You need some able "behind the glass" talent for this one. It deserves this attention, IMHO. Best of luck, AA. ----Lee

[faeflora]

Originally posted by Curve Dominant

I don't have a problem with the lack of low end, or definition, or any other Gearslut Snobbery Anal Retentive Critiqueness. It works, the vibe, the song, the sound, it all adds up very nicely.
.

Well I guess I'll "Repuhzent" (Philly style yallz!) and try to dispense the standard Gearslut anal critique.

1. The guitar is out of tune.
2. The song is sloppily smashed.
3. Good singer
4. Where's the mixing?? The cymbals are smashed and sound hard limited and they sound like there's no volume change on them at all. They're also too loud. Sounds like you did work on the vocal but not really anything else. The vocal is too wet in lots of places and too dry in others, especially compared to the lack of processing and mixing in the rest of the song. Also, the vocal processing isn't consistent. At the end of a the veres, processing is confusingly different.
5. Kick?? Bass?/ Where?
6. Vocal sounds lazily smashed like fuk.
7. Drums sound disparate from rest of sounds.

Releasable? Sure! That's what mp3.com is I mean was for. Just kidding! I guess it's releasable if you're cable of burning copies. Who knows what will happen? If I were producing this thing though, I'd rerecord it, at least so the fukkin guitar would be in tune!

How's that curve?

[faeflora]

Oh and if you're mixing in Logic, then you have no excuse about not automating the vocal. And everything else. Stop being lazy unless you were only paid to do what you did. Which in my opinion is worth about $10.

[artapril]

A real big thank you for all the kind and not so kind words in this thread.

First of all I want to say, that I don´t wanted to boast about “UHHH THIS is going to be RELEASED”!!!
The second point is: I know it is neither mixed very well, nor it is an example of a high class tracking session.

The next few sentences are to clear the situation I´m in, NOT TO EXCUSE for my lack of mixing skills (which I definitively have).

As stated above, the song was tracked (not by me) to an unmaintained (not calibrated within the last two to three years) 2”.
After this machine got some serious technical problems, it was dumped into digital through RME convertors, without going through the console again. This caused some pretty bad level problems, as the levels of both machines did not match very well. Some of the hotter tracks were lost forever (toms, HH!, some guitars), most tracks had no extreme audible cliping, but sounded somewhat harsh and lifeless.

All instruments except the vocals were recorded through the consoles preamps, which have a big problem in the upper mids if driven to hot, and which have absolutely no low end definition. This is a fact, and I try to work arround this every time I do jobs in this studio.

The tracking took place in a 6x12 room, completely covered with carpet and no bass trapping or any other acoustical treatment.
Mics were mostly dynamics (OH Beyer ?, BD D112, Guitar 57+Behringer Vocal mic…)
It is boomy as hell, and even the snare mic, the one with the smallest amount of room sound has an audible (and viewable) 400-800hz boost.
And now think of the OH (or cymbal mics, as there is no usable kit sound).

Now to the mixing: No console automation, some outboard comps, automated (YES it really is) as far as no outboard was involved, in Logic.
The harsh sound: As opposed to the preamps, the consoles line ins and overall sound in the mix path is like there is a towel over the sound. So I am constantly tempted to to use all kind of transient and high freq stimulation tools, to work against this mud. I know I almost everytime overdo it with this, but two days in this studio, and I´m so used to this sound…
To the vocal levels: You are absolutely right. To unbalanced. I have to pay some more attention to the lead/double/background ratio. The parts where the vocals are to wet, is the send from the double/background.
The guitars: Out of tune is attitude (at least this is what the band says, this is an alternative/indie/punk thing, more than a pop song). But I don´t think this is to bad. I can hear that, too, but I don´t think anybody cares to much.
The drum sound: The cymbals ARE AUTOMATED!!! As I did not have any tom or whole kit sources, I had to try to do this all with the two cymbal mics. As I am not used to work with samples, I do not have this possibility at the moment (I think this would do some good to the drums)
Kick/Bass: I was not able to achieve any good results in the 80 to ~240hz area. So I worked a little deeper, but you are right, this is no good.
The compression: there is a comp on a drum mult (without cymbals, but +bass) on a snare and a kick mult, on the vocals and on acoustic guitar. If there is something that sounds overcompressed, it may be the convertor problem. Otherwise I don´t know.

But keep in mind, this is a mp3, made from a 16/44file. It´s not the real thing.

So, now it is time, to really blame me. Someone with more experience/skills would probably hear this problems, too, but just solve them.
I posted this here, to be someone who can do this in a few years, too, to get feedback, to see where I have to work on.
(Not to hear, my work isn´t worth 10$. I have a pretty realistic self-evaluation. I know what I can do and the things i do not. This song is one I know I have problems with. For this reason I posted it here.)



So thank you all. I´ll do a new mix, bearing in mind the tips you gave me.
I´ll post it here when it is finished.

[faeflora]

Keep at it!

I may have been harsh but I told you what I heard.

The guitar being out of tune as attitude/style though, is an absolutely horrible idea and a terribly lame excuse for someone forgetting to tune.

The out of tune guitar reallly does kill it.