ELECTRO POP (The Mission District)

[luctellier]

Hi,

Here's a song that I've produced, recorded, mixed and mastered totally in the box using Cubase 4, Waves and UAD plugins. For this mix, I used my NS10 instead of the Mackie HR824. My NS10 were in the closet for the past 5 months and I decided to pluged them back. I didn't use the Mackie at all to mix this song and I feel like I got faster and better result than in any other song I've mixed on the Mackie.

The drums were programmed using EZDrummer and samples from Cubase. For the bridge section, I mic'd my Orange County snare with 2 x SM57 and 2 x Rode NT1000 for Room mics in the big hall next to the control room. The bass was a Fender Precision through a SansAmp RBI. The distorted guitars were recorded using a Fender Jaguar Special and a Fender Telecaster into Tube Screamer, then a MXR Micro Amp, then going into a Marshall JTM45 MKII hooked to a Marshall JCM 1960 LEAD 4X12 cabinet mic'd with a SM57 and Rode NT1000. I did used some EQ on the Midas console. The vocal were recorded using a Rode NT2000 and a SPL TrackOne.

The band is called The Mission District and they are from Montreal. The have played on MTV Live last month and they also have been featured twice on PerezHilton's website.

This is the first version of the mix so any comments or feedback that could help me to improve this mix are more than welcome as always!

PLAYER HERE

Thanks!

LT

[Machina]

Hi Luc,

I think it's a great mix! Very modern and pretty much what I would expect from someone quoting CLA in his signature but in a very positive way. Pretty much top-notch from what you hear here on GS I have to say! A drummer myself I always pay much attention to the drums and I like the "produced", roomy but yet still in-your-face sound (especially the snare and it's reverb).

Didn't ever use Cubase exept maybe once or twice. What kind of samples are those?

Keep up the good work!

Cheers,

Chris

[luctellier]

Originally Posted by Machina

Hi Luc,

I think it's a great mix! Very modern and pretty much what I would expect from someone quoting CLA in his signature but in a very positive way. Pretty much top-notch from what you hear here on GS I have to say! A drummer myself I always pay much attention to the drums and I like the "produced", roomy but yet still in-your-face sound (especially the snare and it's reverb).

Didn't ever use Cubase exept maybe once or twice. What kind of samples are those?

Keep up the good work!

Cheers,

Chris

Hi Chris! :)

Thank you for listening and commenting, it's really appreciated! CLA is right in his quote, that's funny coming from a guy who has so much gear though! Hey, I love roomy drums too! e it's always hard to balance between roomy / punchy drums. Well, Cubase 4 comes with a lot of good synths and some good drums samples. None of them are realistic but they are great for augmenting real drums though. They were doing the jobs for this song as it's more electronica stuff.

LT

[Jake 2.0]

as always top of the line , radio friendly huge mix! a grade , keep them coming

[peeder]

Hi Luc,

You certainly like 2k-3k.

I'm still getting used to my new sub, but I'm thinking the kick is loud enough but the bass could use a bit more juice. I also think in some of the choruses you could clear a bit more room in those upper mids you dig so much.

peeder (from the actual Mission District )

[luctellier]

Originally Posted by peeder

Hi Luc,

You certainly like 2k-3k.

I'm still getting used to my new sub, but I'm thinking the kick is loud enough but the bass could use a bit more juice. I also think in some of the choruses you could clear a bit more room in those upper mids you dig so much.

peeder (from the actual Mission District )

hahaha NOT! I hate the 2k-3k range! The singer was born in the Mission District actually and that's why he decided to name the band like that! :)

[Machina]

Hehe...that's always one thing that is really tough for me: getting that fricking 2-3k range right (especially with guitars), because I just absolutely hate it
Sitting in front of the desk mixing I could ALWAYS dig out some more of that annoying stuff and at the end of the day (or the next morning) when it comes to comparing, it's time to put it all back in there again...

What kind of reverb did you use on the snare? Do you master yourself?

Cheers,

Chris

[luctellier]

Originally Posted by Machina

Hehe...that's always one thing that is really tough for me: getting that fricking 2-3k range right (especially with guitars), because I just absolutely hate it
Sitting in front of the desk mixing I could ALWAYS dig out some more of that annoying stuff and at the end of the day (or the next morning) when it comes to comparing, it's time to put it all back in there again...

What kind of reverb did you use on the snare? Do you master yourself?

Cheers,

Chris

haha I used to do that too.. cutting, then putting back the next day. The best to get rid of that fizz or sizzle in that range is to cut and keep comparing with other reference. I don't know if it happened to you but most of the time when you cut to get rid of a fizz or resonance, as soon as you listen to another song, you hear that fizz that you just cut. For example, if you make a narrow cut at 3khz in your guitar and it sounds great to your ear, then you compare with a commercial reference and you suddently hear to much of the range you just cut in your song. Just like if the brain is trying to compensate what it was used to..

I use the UAD Plate 140 but most of the time i do my own sample in the big hall. I did master myself as always.

[Todd]

Brilliant as usual.

You just come here to depress me , dont you? You golden eared bastard!

You're brilliant man. Seriously.

How do you get EZ sounding so fat??

I love my UAD plugs too! Im using A7's lately, and like them much
better than the HR824's i sold.

Thanks for the post man!
TK

[Machina]

I know what you're saying! Even if you cut you somehow still hear it, pay even more attention to it and maybe cut even more.
It's just so hard to not get tricked by your brain especially after a few hours of mixing. I used to cut too much annoying frequencies (at least I thought so, haha) on just about everything (over-doing esp the narrow cuts can destroy it all) and pretty often ended up with a lifeless mix that lacked presence. E.g. some 2-3k on guitars, lowend up to ~600Hz and somewhere around 2-6k on overheads, 200-600Hz on kick...could go on forever...
Then you maybe wanna excite yourself, turn up the volume, tweek some more and you're sure you have this great smooth mix going on
In the end you throw in the latest Jimmy Eat World in your CD player and just go Instead of mixing for hours I could've pressed the loudness button as well, haha...
I think it's not that hard to get good sounds in the first place but to find the golden path between "produced" sounds (which usually all need some kind of cut IMHO) and a lively mix that's still "fresh" and exciting (frequency-wise) with a nice midrange. Still pretty much on the learning side after some years but I always calm myself down thinking I still got some 10+ years before I'm as old as CLA and his mates

Do you master ITB? Very hot but still nice! After reading tons of stuff here I was trying to figure out keeping my transients more intact with less limiting and more clipping in the last months...

Cheers,

Chris

[luctellier]

Originally Posted by Todd

Brilliant as usual.

You just come here to depress me , dont you? You golden eared bastard!

You're brilliant man. Seriously.

How do you get EZ sounding so fat??

I love my UAD plugs too! Im using A7's lately, and like them much
better than the HR824's i sold.

Thanks for the post man!
TK

Haha hell no! By replacing the kick and the top snare! :)

[luctellier]

Originally Posted by Machina

I know what you're saying! Even if you cut you somehow still hear it, pay even more attention to it and maybe cut even more.
It's just so hard to not get tricked by your brain especially after a few hours of mixing. I used to cut too much annoying frequencies (at least I thought so, haha) on just about everything (over-doing esp the narrow cuts can destroy it all) and pretty often ended up with a lifeless mix that lacked presence. E.g. some 2-3k on guitars, lowend up to ~600Hz and somewhere around 2-6k on overheads, 200-600Hz on kick...could go on forever...
Then you maybe wanna excite yourself, turn up the volume, tweek some more and you're sure you have this great smooth mix going on
In the end you throw in the latest Jimmy Eat World in your CD player and just go Instead of mixing for hours I could've pressed the loudness button as well, haha...
I think it's not that hard to get good sounds in the first place but to find the golden path between "produced" sounds (which usually all need some kind of cut IMHO) and a lively mix that's still "fresh" and exciting (frequency-wise) with a nice midrange. Still pretty much on the learning side after some years but I always calm myself down thinking I still got some 10+ years before I'm as old as CLA and his mates

Do you master ITB? Very hot but still nice! After reading tons of stuff here I was trying to figure out keeping my transients more intact with less limiting and more clipping in the last months...

Cheers,

Chris

Haha I've been there! I so know what you mean! ;)

Yes, I master in the box!

[Todd]

Replacing the kick and top snare,,, with "What"???

Dont say you make your own samples, cause then i'll have to
smash my head into my desk a few times.

A/B'ing extremely frequently while mixing has helped me.

Here's another question maybe you can answer for me.

What the heck do you do with the Hi Hat??

I use DKFH Custom and Vintage. Its a decent sample set.
The hi hats seem ok at first.
But by the time i do a mix down, and play it through my cheapo
Logitech system, in my internet room, the hi hat sounds phasey,
thin, and just crappy.

What do you cut and/or boost in the hi hat, just generally??

Im always really careful when setting up the drum busses, making sure i
havent messed the phase anywhere.
Should i be allowing the hi hat to bleed through the snare and tom mics more??
Is there something im overlooking, or havent thought about?

Thanks Luc! I know you're busy, but i hope you can shed some light. :)
Keep up the great work, im a huge fan.

BTW, i got to meet CLA some years ago when he mixed Jimmy's Chicken Shack's major
label debut "Pushing the Salmanila Envelope". Jimmy was my roomate at the time. I got to see CLA work a little bit,
but didnt know my butt from a fader at the time, so i didnt get much from it. :(
TK

[luctellier]

Originally Posted by Todd

Replacing the kick and top snare,,, with "What"???
Dont say you make your own samples, cause then i'll have to
smash my head into my desk a few times.

Sorry but my answer is yes: with your own samples. Take a week or two, rent some good snares and kick and create your sound. You'll learn a lot by doing this about drums in general. Test your samples in mixes. I always start by recording some samples when I record a band. It's always helpful later when mixing just to add some consistency or to be able to EQ the snare track without having tons of bleed when adding top end.

Originally Posted by Todd

A/B'ing extremely frequently while mixing has helped me.

It helps, but overdoing this can destroy your mix as you'll tend to copy the sound of the rerefence song which has a complete different guitar tone, kick, snare, singer. I A/B to compare the volume between elements (drums, bass, guitars, vocals) and to verify if my mix is not too dark or too bright in general or has enough low end.

Originally Posted by Todd

Here's another question maybe you can answer for me. What the heck do you do with the Hi Hat?? I use DKFH Custom and Vintage. Its a decent sample set.
The hi hats seem ok at first. But by the time i do a mix down, and play it through my cheapo Logitech system, in my internet room, the hi hat sounds phasey,
thin, and just crappy.

I only low-passed the hi-hat at 10 000hz to get rid of that high end fizz and I pan it in the center. The hi-hat track is very low in the mix. The sounds come from the overhead and room mics.

Originally Posted by Todd

Thanks Luc! I know you're busy, but i hope you can shed some light. :) Keep up the great work, im a huge fan.

Thank you very much! Hope I helped you!

Originally Posted by Todd

BTW, i got to meet CLA some years ago when he mixed Jimmy's Chicken Shack's major label debut "Pushing the Salmanila Envelope". Jimmy was my roomate at the time. I got to see CLA work a little bit,
but didnt know my butt from a fader at the time, so i didnt get much from it. :(
TK

Oh man, I would have bite my finger to be there! But anyways, he doesn't do anything magic. He has the gear AND the ears.. all the other stuff is pretty common stuff. He knows how to deal with compression and he's really good at balancing things. One of the few things I'm wondering about him is if he uses parrallel compression on drums!

LT

[luctellier]

Originally Posted by TroyTempest

Hey what do you use to replace the drums in the track?

Also would you be interested in trading some samples? I have some killer samples from a few platinum producers. I am always looking to grow my sample list.

I use my own custom samples and not really interested in sharing them sorry!

[MYAMS]

Originally Posted by luctellier

I use my own custom samples and not really interested in sharing them sorry!

You should sell some of your processed samples ppl (including) myself, would buy them. Let me know.

[luctellier]

Originally Posted by MYAMS

You should sell some of your processed samples ppl (including) myself, would buy them. Let me know.

Sorry I don't sell my drum samples as they wouldn't be help anybody! They are just normal single hits created at the beginning of each recording session. I don't have any magic "processed" samples that you just throw in and sounds great. I use samples that I create at the beginning of each recording session. The samples from the actual drums drum kit will always sounds better in context of the mix when blended with this kit. I don't replace drums, I only augment the snare (20% to 30%) for consistency, punch or ambiance. I do replace the kick most of the time as you don't really have the choice nowadays. People are so used in rock music to this perfect kick track with zero dynamic. I have some processed samples that took hours to create but those my handy samples that I use when I mixing somebody else's song or album. They are mostly large roomy snares created in my hall or ringing snares to add sustain to dead track. Sounds cliché but so true: a good drummer in a good room, with a well tuned kit with proper mic'ing technique will always sound better (with some post-processing of course) than any programmed drums or 100% replaced drums.

[MYAMS]

Originally Posted by luctellier

Sorry I don't sell my drum samples as they wouldn't be help anybody! They are just normal single hits created at the beginning of each recording session. I don't have any magic "processed" samples that you just throw in and sounds great. I use samples that I create at the beginning of each recording session. The samples from the actual drums drum kit will always sounds better in context of the mix when blended with this kit. I don't replace drums, I only augment the snare (20% to 30%) for consistency, punch or ambiance. I do replace the kick most of the time as you don't really have the choice nowadays. People are so used in rock music to this perfect kick track with zero dynamic. I have some processed samples that took hours to create but those my handy samples that I use when I mixing somebody else's song or album. They are mostly large roomy snares created in my hall or ringing snares to add sustain to dead track. Sounds cliché but so true: a good drummer in a good room, with a well tuned kit with proper mic'ing technique will always sound better (with some post-processing of course) than any programmed drums or 100% replaced drums.

Thanks man, the only reason I was asking because I am actually gearing up to produce some electro pop with a few members of the band gone till november. They gained a lot of popularity and inked a deal with sony/epic but sadly broke up. Anyway, I am primarily a pop-hip-hop producer so I was wondering if you could shed some light on some of the tools of the trade when dealing with pop-punk./electro type records. I am going to be recording some drums, using a lot of bfd, vengeance, soniccouture, probably some vintage machine type kits that I have, but I was wondering what you use for synths and basses, and any guitar tricks you use. It seems analog synths are ideal for this type of work, and a mixture of live bass and samples like trilogy. I really like the sounds in the Mission District "so over you" that you did, perhaps you could share what you were using there for the synths?

[luctellier]

Originally Posted by MYAMS

Thanks man, the only reason I was asking because I am actually gearing up to produce some electro pop with a few members of the band gone till november. They gained a lot of popularity and inked a deal with sony/epic but sadly broke up. Anyway, I am primarily a pop-hip-hop producer so I was wondering if you could shed some light on some of the tools of the trade when dealing with pop-punk./electro type records. I am going to be recording some drums, using a lot of bfd, vengeance, soniccouture, probably some vintage machine type kits that I have, but I was wondering what you use for synths and basses, and any guitar tricks you use. It seems analog synths are ideal for this type of work, and a mixture of live bass and samples like trilogy. I really like the sounds in the Mission District "so over you" that you did, perhaps you could share what you were using there for the synths?

Well, in the song "So Over You" from the same band I used the sampler HalionOne in Cubase 4 with the stock samples. The bass was programmed and I used the "Fender Precision" patch. I don't go crazy about finding "the right" sound. I just find the one that is close to what I have in mind and start tweaking from there. For guitars it's a total different world! I'm definitely more of a rock guy. The song "So Over You" was the first one I did in that kind of music and we had one day to do everything from start to beginning.

[MYAMS]

Originally Posted by luctellier

Well, in the song "So Over You" from the same band I used the sampler HalionOne in Cubase 4 with the stock samples. The bass was programmed and I used the "Fender Precision" patch. I don't go crazy about finding "the right" sound. I just find the one that is close to what I have in mind and start tweaking from there. For guitars it's a total different world! I'm definitely more of a rock guy. The song "So Over You" was the first one I did in that kind of music and we had one day to do everything from start to beginning.

Gotcha man, yeah Im gonna try to stay in the box. I jsut got this sample library Phaedra which should have a lot of good sounds for this sort of stuff. Do you have any tips for programming drums and bass in terms of grooving and quantizing. Most of the songs you did sound very straight, are you just literally quantizing everything?

[luctellier]

Originally Posted by MYAMS

Gotcha man, yeah Im gonna try to stay in the box. I jsut got this sample library Phaedra which should have a lot of good sounds for this sort of stuff. Do you have any tips for programming drums and bass in terms of grooving and quantizing. Most of the songs you did sound very straight, are you just literally quantizing everything?

The only songs I programmed drums are the two from Mission District which is electro and don't need that much groove but everything is perfectly on grid.