Drum recording, thoughts?

[hippietim]

I'm working on some original material and I've never recorded acoustic drums myself before. This weekend I mic'd the kit up with my drummer and took my first shot at it.

http://www.moppingjanet.com/recordings/DrumTest.wma

Any thoughts, tips, suggestions, criticisms?

[camerondye]

Give the details on recording the drums...mics, room, setup, pics etc...
cam

[hippietim]

Originally Posted by camerondye

Give the details on recording the drums...mics, room, setup, pics etc...
cam

I can do that - I was hoping to get some feedback that wasn't potentially colored by the gear used.

[gundling]

You definitely have something to work with...

The reverb is a bit strange - maybe a bit too heavy hat or not enough on other things. The snare and toms are not going through the same verb or not in nearly the same amounts... It sounds a little fake... like it doesn't quite belong in the same room because of those variances on the hihat verb. The tom is hanging "outside" of the scope of the overheads... maybe lower volume on that left panned (like 10 o clock panned) tom a hair.

I think the guy above was asking about mics because really a lot of drum mixing has to do with whether or not you have room mics
/ what kind of overheads you have and whether or not you have 2 mics per snare / kick. It's tough to tell you what to do if we don't know what you have.

I will say this... I'm hearing tons of stick and skin on the snare and hardly any snare. Sounds like the bottom mic could be turned up more. If you don't have one, use it as a trigger for drum replacement and mix the replaced snare part of the drum in.

Hope this helps a little..

Rob

[hippietim]

Originally Posted by gundling

You definitely have something to work with...

Thanks!

Originally Posted by gundling

The reverb is a bit strange - maybe a bit too heavy hat or not enough on other things. The snare and toms are not going through the same verb or not in nearly the same amounts... It sounds a little fake... like it doesn't quite belong in the same room because of those variances on the hihat verb. The tom is hanging "outside" of the scope of the overheads... maybe lower volume on that left panned (like 10 o clock panned) tom a hair.

All of the drum channels other than the kick are going to the same effects send with the exact same relative level - literally, I simply clicked on the effect send in Sonar and didn't adjust anything on the individual channels. The reverb is easy to change. I used the Lexicon reverb that comes with Sonar Producer 7.

The two mounted toms are definitely sitting to high in the mix.

Originally Posted by gundling

I think the guy above was asking about mics because really a lot of drum mixing has to do with whether or not you have room mics
/ what kind of overheads you have and whether or not you have 2 mics per snare / kick. It's tough to tell you what to do if we don't know what you have.

I understand. I really just wanted some initial feedback. I'm not trying to be evasive or anything, on the various guitar forums I've just seen far too many "give me your impression of this" where someone spells out what they're using ahead of time and people will rip apart something that actually sounds good even though they're using a POD and an Epiphone and conversely they'll say something kicks butt just because it's a PRS and a Soldano.

Originally Posted by gundling

I will say this... I'm hearing tons of stick and skin on the snare and hardly any snare. Sounds like the bottom mic could be turned up more. If you don't have one, use it as a trigger for drum replacement and mix the replaced snare part of the drum in.

Actually, the raw snare track sounds like crap. It's not dialed in quite right yet - it has to much annoying ring. There is no bottom mic on that recording - that is definitely something I want to try next.

Originally Posted by gundling

Hope this helps a little..

It most certainly does - thank you.

[hippietim]

The recording process was pretty straightforward I think. I busted out a bunch of mics and stands and hoped for the best :)

Mics:

• Kick - AKG D112
• Tom 1,2,3 - EV N/D 308 (one each)
• Snare - Sennheiser MD504
• Hi-hat - SM57
• Overheads - a pair of CAD ICM417

The overheads went into a Trident S20 preamp. Everything went into Sonar 7 via a Presonus FirePOD.

Once recorded, I used the Para-Q to cut the lows on the overheads and hi-hat. The snare sounded like crap so I used a Para-Q to dial out a couple really annoying rings. I put heavy gates on the kick and toms to reduce bleeding.

The reverb is the Lexicon that came with the Producer Edition set to Room - I just tweaked one of the presets - no reverb on the kick drum.

What I'm not happy with:

• the cymbals are a bit harsh to my ears - I went out and got a pair of Rode NT5's for the next session
• the hi-hat is lacking the crispness/sizzle I like - an SM57 isn't going to deliver that so I grabbed a Shure KSM-109 condenser when I grabbed the NT5's
• the kick drum is lacking the attack punch I like - after we were wrapped for the day I noticed that the kick drum mic had gotten knocked out of position - it was a good 8" away from the front of the bass drum. Putting it inside the kick drum properly should fix that next time - D'oh!
• the snare sounds like butt - part of it is the drum itself isn't dialed in properly, we'll see after it's tweaked. I'm thinking of micing the bottom head as well

[Beyersound]

You could try moving that 57 over to the snare, the 504 can be a bit thick and mid ringy on snare. How far was the mic from the snare? If you're not at least 3" or 4" away and angled toward the center of the drum, it will be an overtone fest! Hi hat should be a 4041, 451, even an MXL 603 is good and also cheap(haven't used the newer Shures). If you have another S20, it might help that snare!

[gundling]

I'm with Beyer - I really like 57 on snare (bottom works nice with 57 - point it right at the actual snare metal) but I always double mic snare. Sometimes I get crazy (you have to REALLY trust your drummer) and put a nice condenser on top of the snare. It depends what sound you're going for.

I get you on the verbs... I think that particular verb just reacts very strongly to the hat... I would back down that hat send at least...

I think those quip changes you have and that kick drum placement thing will tighten things up a LOT...

Good luck, man!

Rob

[Beyersound]

Originally Posted by gundling

I'm with Beyer - I really like 57 on snare (bottom works nice with 57 - point it right at the actual snare metal) but I always double mic snare. Sometimes I get crazy (you have to REALLY trust your drummer) and put a nice condenser on top of the snare. It depends what sound you're going for.

I get you on the verbs... I think that particular verb just reacts very strongly to the hat... I would back down that hat send at least...

I think those quip changes you have and that kick drum placement thing will tighten things up a LOT...

Good luck, man!

Rob

Ok, I am also with Rob on the condenser. That amazing Clearmountain snare sound was done with a 57 and an SM-81, both on top. I have had great results with similar combinations. Ken Scott gets great snare sounds with a KM84/184 condenser on top. Also, as per my suggestion of backing the mic off a few inches, it will get you more snare in the sound. I am also with him on the verb, many times there is too much verb sent from the hat. It rarely needs near as much as a snare.

[gundling]

I actually use my Blue Mouse sometimes on the snare top. Like I said, need to trust your drummer :). You're right.. placement is everything. I point it skimmed a little bit over the top, not directly at the skin and not at the stool.

I think you're going to get some great drum tracks now, man!

Rob