Pop Country. First mix advice request post.

[gundling]

Hey guys... been lurking here for a while. I thought i'd give this "work in progress" a try on my own work. This is an unmastered 160k MP3 of "Mama's Prayers." Going for a Pop Country / crossover sound.

UPDATE: Post #12 below has final mastered mix. Thanks, all, for your suggestions!



OK.. so what's what:

100% ITB using Cubase SX 3 / UAD-1 / Wizoo Verb / Waves 6 Tap Delay / others listed below

Drums are BFD split up with OH / Snare / Room send going to 1176LN and LA2A to make the room / OH bigger.
Acoustic recorded through a TLM170 -> Wunder PAFOUR thru going through Pultec Pro. A little send to my overall verb.
Bass is direct into Avalon 737sp.
Electric guitar going through Wunder PAFOUR to Guitar Rig. Then to a Delay.
Organ is the Native Instruments B4. I realize while now listening through phones that I need to adjust it because it's a little early... focus on the sound for now. I'll get that fixed.
Lead vocal is TLM170 through Wunder PAFOUR.
All BGVs are TLM170 through Avalon 737sp. The buried BGVs are grouped and going through a Neve 1073 EQ with some hi shelfing and lo end rolloff and then compressed through LA2A. Sending to Wizoo Verb pretty strongly.

Thanks for the time and advice,

Rob

[gundling]

Added a "mastered version" - just for listening... this will help hear the mix glued together a little better, tho I'm no mastering engineer...

[peeder]

Hi Rob,

I love the song!

I think a good pass at mastering would bring it together a lot. You have a lot of space in it and clarity and that's what's hard to find. Your own mastering job is smearing a lot of that space in the upper mids...the voice is getting some distortion and the cymbals are too loud in the mastered version. I think you can do a lot better (or a mastering expert could) while still providing the glue that it's missing in the unmastered version.

Just on the unmastered version, I think the bass is scooped a bit too much. The drums are sticking out a bit compared to the other instruments, although it gives it a nice punch. I like the guitar solo sound, not as crazy about the clean electric sound but it works OK. I might reamp that clean electric (that does the arpeggios/chords). The voice seems just slightly cottonmouthed it might be over-deessed, the compressor might benefit from an HPF on the sidechain, or might just need some air for definition.

Overall great job!

[gundling]

Peeder... Thanks man... glad you dig the tune...

I agree about the mastering... I'm DEFINITELY no mastering engineer.. I will hand that off to someone soon... I just really wanted to get the mix down first.

Thanks for the tweak notes. I can definitely hear what you're saying about that bass. It does sound scooped... can't even hear that it's there on laptop speakers... I should hear at least something... so - I may retrack that through a different pre. That's directly off the pre as it is... so... I'll A -> B it after.

Nod on the drums.. I like the room and pop of the snare... I just think the cymbals / snare (basically the OH as a whole) are just a hair too loud. I like the kick where it's at...

Clarifying... on the Vocals, you mean the the Lead/Main BGV sound a little mid-heavy?

Thanks for the time...

Anyone else care to take a stab?

Rob

[MCA]

Catchy. Did you play all of the instruments?

[gundling]

Thanks! Yeah... Played all/Sung all but the lead guitar solo...

[gundling]

Here's some of the mix changes I made with a new mastered version. It's a little squashed...

Listening a couple of times, I still think the bass needs retracked with more of the bridge pickup and the OH in the drums are still a hair too loud.

Any other thoughts?

Rob

[ahlist]

From a purely casual listener perspective... Sounds pretty good to me!

Only thing I don't like is the first vocal backup in the chorus (0:35 seconds in "ma-ma's prayyyerrrrs". the rest are good, but that little harmony, as a casual country listener, doesn't seem to fit). Everything else? Great!

[gundling]

Originally Posted by ahlist

From a purely casual listener perspective... Sounds pretty good to me!

Only thing I don't like is the first vocal backup in the chorus (0:35 seconds in "ma-ma's prayyyerrrrs". the rest are good, but that little harmony, as a casual country listener, doesn't seem to fit). Everything else? Great!

Very cool to get that perspective. Thanks so much!

[Todd]

I like the song. I like the vocal performance and sound.

I think the clean guitars sound really good. Guitar solo is a bit loud.

The bass guitar is missing a little body.

The cymbals are indeed a hair loud, but i think what would help, in addition, would be to lose alot of the crashes. There are too many
of them. Scale them back, and do more with open hi hat for accents.
Put crashes on only the more important changes. Also, try lower velocities on the cymbals.
The BFD cymbals never seem right to me. You might try picking up
DKFH Custom and Vintage just for these occasions. Its pretty cheap
and it can give you certain vibes BFD cant deliver. The cymbals
are much smoother. You can also compress the attack of the crashes to give them
more blossom.

Your drums overall seem like they're not hitting hard enough. (kik and snare)
Not much low mid smack. You have them loud in the mix.
I think they need to come down, but punch through more.

try compressing the kik and snare for more attack/smack.
dont be afraid of 200khz. Let your bass guitar and kik drum live in slightly
different ranges, giving each other room.

Beyond all the nitpicking i think this is really good work.
T

[gundling]

Todd...

Seriously.. thanks for the feedback. Listening to things about 2 weeks later opens your eyes and ears... I agree whole heartedly that the drums are rediculous :).

BFD really throws me a lot of curveballs, so I totally appreciate your (experienced) perspective and advice. I will definitely be trying this advice and I think I'm just going to rerecord the bass.

Thanks again!

Rob

[gundling]

So - Finally remixed this track after retracking the bass. Worked on the drums a bit as well. Didn't change the programming so much as the mixing.

I think it's a great improvement and a stronger demo. Thanks,all, for your suggestions and ears!

Enjoy the final demo.

Rob

[Old Cane]

So, let me get this straight. This is your first mix. You took the constructive enhancements on this thread and put them to work and now you've got this? Are you kidding? Excellent job. Tremendous inprovement from the first mix posted.

[gundling]

Originally Posted by Old Cane

So, let me get this straight. This is your first mix. You took the constructive enhancements on this thread and put them to work and now you've got this? Are you kidding? Excellent job. Tremendous inprovement from the first mix posted.

Sorry... definitely not my first mix ever... haha.. just thought about the post title. It's my first ever advice request on gearslutz and also with Pop Country. Just started taking up some of the other elements (like the big room on drums and the clean compressed electrics guitars) that I never experimented with before and my mixes have never really had too much critical feedback... thus I'm usually not too happy with them.

But, yes, these guys all helped me point out flaws in this mix and give me some objective thinking. Thanks for the compliment and feedback! It means a lot!

Rob