Reggae mix. Impressions, advice requested.

[Jake Dempsey]

This is the first draft of a mix for a band I'm recording and producing. After getting it home, I hear too much ambience on the vox, too much conga, and the guiro is a little loud in spots. I'm also going to automate the horns, vox and percussion to get everything sitting right and fade the end. Other than that, what do the sluts have to say? I'm going for an old school vibe. I used a lot of ribbon mics and UA 610s' for tracking.

Everything mixed ITB in Logic 8. Iron oxide on all channels except kick and vox.

[Jake Dempsey]

fixed

[Jake Dempsey]

This mix must really suck. Anyone want to take a stab at it?

[Ricey]

i'll have a go.

i like the song - i Really like the singer! drummer is a little distracting with that clever kick drum and all. very common with non-Jamaican drummers. oops, just heard the groove change to that 'other' beat. i think changing beats in the middle of a reggae tune (or any dance tune for that matter) is a nicht-nicht.

now, the mix: again, i really like it. i agree with your idea to automate the horns on the fade - they're sounding good so why not put 'em out there.

my taste is to put the hi-hat dead centre, i would swap it with the crash cymbal. that's me though.
how are you dealing with the bass/kick relation? they're sounding a bit close to each other IMO, frequencywise - i like to put the bass on the bottom and the kick above it for this kind of tune.

Nice One!

[Chris]

No mix comments, but that's a great song. Well, a mix comment: It sounds good.

[Roman]

Nice song.
I am 31 and have listened to reggae all my life. I can be a bit of an eletistist in others eyes when it comes to reggae. But I honestly get pleasure from the subtleties of feel, performance and sound aesthetics that make Jamaican music unique. Especially late 60's early 70's Jamaican music. Which is getting reissued all the time, Praise Jah!
But yeah, stylistically the feel of this tune is more pop with an off beat chop layered on top. Sort of like that group 'sublime'. The playing is not really the reggae feel. The drums and bass playing emphasizes the first beat. Some reggae does this but still have the wobbly proper reggae groove.

But your not asking for opinions on the playing I expect. It's a really fun song.

As for the production which is what you were asking about:
The first thing I miss is the fat analog drum sound that reggae has. The way they recorded drums in the 70's and 80's was a fetish for Jamaica. They mastered the drum sounds. The snare was that dead punchy style snare. Gregory Isaacs 'Night Nurse' album is immaculately executed in all aspects. Good reference for reggae mixes I reckon.
Yeah I wish it had a dryer punchier drum sound. Jamaican reggae tends to emphasize the drum and the bass in the mix and let other elements colour the mix but further back usually.
It's really hard to put into words.
I am just being a fussy reggae type offering you a perspective. Because art is subjective there is no right or wrong.
Keep up the strong music.
Wicked!

[Jake Dempsey]

Thanks for the replies guys. Very helpful. I will take everything into consideration.

[nickynicknick]

Hey...checked it out....sound wise, I think you did a great job....however, i think there is a couple stinky elements in this production


the horns are awkward sounding and are not complimenting the song...these should be arranged again or scrapped

there seems to be too many elements popping up....do we really have to hear every percussion trick...use a couple...it'l help the rythmn section lock

I wanna hear the bass notes more

How about some vocal harmonies...reggae vocals are supposed to be sweet...the vocals come off as a little sour...doubles could be tightened up

....I think you've captured what you were given really really well.....good job...as always... only My Opinion

Nick

[Jake Dempsey]

[quote=nickynicknick;1750984]
I wanna hear the bass notes more/QUOTE]

That was tough to deal with. I have some great vintage basses. The guy insisted on using his jacked up active Ibanez strung with flatwounds. I have had a real hard time getting his bass to sound like anything.

[Jake Dempsey]

Thanks for the helpful comments. Nick I hear you on the percussion thing. All the parts need to be slimmed down in a big way. I think I'll leave the conga, cabasa, and guiro. Just about 1/2 of what's there though.

Roman, I'm quite the old dub buff myself, but these are young suburban dudes from VA. The music is coming from a totally different place. I personally thought that trying to make it sound like a 70s roots record was a bad choice. It seemed to me that wouldn't be a good fit. These guys are more of a rock band with heavy reggae tendencies than a reggae band. I am going to save another version of the edit and try your suggestions though. Maybe there's a happy medium.

Ricey, ran the hat to the middle and it made all the difference. Thanks man. I'd like to pick your brain sometime. I have Victor Axelrod's last record. Listening to that randomly turned me on to some of the work you've done. Your production is seriously sick man. You're producing some killer, killer stuff. The bass on ticklah vs axelrod makes the record. Se Hecho Pelante has been on steady listening rotation for months now. Vic seems like a nice guy too. I've had a couple of quick emails with him. He's been helpful and quick to answer questions. Salud!

Thanks again dudes.

Peace

[Ricey]

much obliged! and now that you've flattered me so tremendously, feel free to PM me anytime

[Jake Dempsey]

Thanks. I have some jamaican guys coming in next month. I'm going to break the tape machine out for that one. I'll shoot some mixes to you when I have them.

[MickeySmid]

I hear the bass fine here, on bad and good monitors! There is no problem with the bass mix... but perhaps a vintage bass would be nicer... or you know, just different... this one has a bit of a clean 80ies sound... and missing that 70ies edge, that was... well better... haha... IMHO ofcource.

I like the song/mix!

I must say: it's a good recording. Did you use expensive ribbons or cheapies? With the UA pre's?

Try a old spring (with little pre-delay) on the lead instead of the reverb I'm hearing now. To give it a little more vibe.

-

edit: [DELETE nonsense about wanting it to sound like king tubby... more voodoo... more bright, more hypnotic...)

Mickey

[miqer]

Nice track! Great. Could use a little more "vibe/mojo" in the mix. Yes, perhaps a spring on the vocal and a little more filter/brightness on the horns (not much). Perhaps save this mix, and go crazy on it, and compare the next day.

-

Origional poster might also be interested:

He Ricey... I love the youtube video's... WICKED!!!! Will you be up for answering some questions? Your well kept secrets perhaps (keep those! Much respect)? But I'd love to know how you get those guitar chop's that bright, without making them ugly... Is that a tascam tape or otami (spelling?)...

Do you track those songs digital first, mix them to tape and then dub-mix them from the tape? Or do you track to tape straight. Do I hear some sampes?

Can I start a thread for asking questions, or is that a hassle?

I will also PM you this.

thanks,
Miqer

[gundling]

A nice listen. Cool song... engaging singer and song.

Something seems a little heavy with the horns and the hats all being in the same place sonically. I feel it makes the horns feel "outside of the band" visually/sonically to me. If you're dead set on the hat panned hard, maybe move those horns more toward the middle and add a little reverb (or, gasp, very light stereo chorus) to put them a little further away... there's an old story about reverb robbing the funk in the 70's.. I don't want to be chastised for ruining the funk... everyone has an opinion ;-).

Best of luck... Thanks for the post...

[Baz]

Well, while not an elitest, I grew up with lots of Reggae. In fact, I grew up with West Indian music (Calypso Music) before Reggae really broke . I lived part of my years in the Carribean, on and off for 9 yrs as my parents had biz interests on the small Island of Carriacou, 25 miles north of Grenada.

Also, while growing up in Toronto, I had LOTS of Jamacian friends..Like, loads of them,as did my mom, so we were always surrounded by the sounds and smells (food) of Jamaica.

So anyways, back to the song. while not hardcore reggae, it's damn good and you did a damn good job recording and mixing it, and thats what counts. The vocals are sung and recorded very,very well..be proud of your effort.

Oh, but I agree with the poster who said the HH might be better up the center. I wouldn't put it there, but it is panned off to the R too much imho.

[Jake Dempsey]

Originally Posted by MickeySmid

I hear the bass fine here, on bad and good monitors! There is no problem with the bass mix... but perhaps a vintage bass would be nicer... or you know, just different... this one has a bit of a clean 80ies sound... and missing that 70ies edge, that was... well better... haha... IMHO ofcource.

I like the song/mix!

I must say: it's a good recording. Did you use expensive ribbons or cheapies? With the UA pre's?

Try a old spring (with little pre-delay) on the lead instead of the reverb I'm hearing now. To give it a little more vibe.

-

edit: [DELETE nonsense about wanting it to sound like king tubby... more voodoo... more bright, more hypnotic...)

Mickey

I used peluso r14 ribbons for drum oh's with API 512s'. For the guitars, I used 57s and R14s close up through UA solo 610. B3 is an X series hammond direct and dirtied up a little. Bass is direct through a 610 compression and EQ plugs. Vox is a Lawson 47 through the 610. All percussion is an R14 through the 610.

I took everyone's advice and ran the hat dead center. Made all the difference. Thanks again for the suggestions and kind words everyone.

[MickeySmid]

You made those peluso's and lawsom sound hot and funky... and they are not cheap...! ;)

[Jake Dempsey]

After much deliberation, I have decided to take the horns out. The more I hear them, the more I don't like them. The trumpet and bone player didn't really play that well at all. I tried pitch correcting... blech. Kept some of the flute though. Sounds much better.

Mickey, checked out some of the stuff posted on your www. Nice man. I dig the catfish blues. Go to myspace.com/solblues and check out my group's version of the same tune if you're interested.

Cheers.

[.kAy]

big up yourself :D nice song, irie mix, veeeeery nice.

the only thing I noticed (but this is a matter of taste), everything is soooo in the front. now, I prefer certain elements in behind...maybe go easy on the reverbs, yeh:) ?
maybe a few taype delays now and then, dubwise?

but those are all details.. really nice track.

.k

[miqer]

After much deliberation, I have decided to take the horns out.

Less is more...

Like Catfish blues!! :)

m.