Alternate mix from an EP I finished for a band a couple months ago.

i51423 · 7th October 2007, 10:40 AM

The band is called Bangarang! They're fast pop punk. Something in the vein of Set Your Goals, old Saves the Day, Rufio, etc. I tried to go for a pretty modern mix on this.

Am I at least in the ballpark?

I feel like there's a litttttle too much bass. The sample replacement on the snare is pretty lame, too. They told me to go for a different sound, but I couldn't get the original track to sit with the sample. It's in there, but down a whole bunch. I also played around with some impulse verbs off noisevault. I'm really digging the vocal plate.

I really want to have the singer come back and rewrite a lot of vocals. Mehhh.

WARNING: I threw a brickwall limiter on there and smacked it pretty hard.

So.. comments please?

i51423 · 8th October 2007, 08:49 AM

That bad?

CKK · 8th October 2007, 09:13 AM

Hey m8

You need to work on the bas - VERY muddy. When it comes in, there should be a "slap in your face" kind of feeling - aint happening.

The drums need some work too. They are not "there" with the rest - sounds like "here's the band, and oh, here's the drummer". Dont compress the kit that much, let it come forward and drive the shit. Oh, and the timing on the drummer is - less than stellar.

Overall, you are compressing too much. Leave some dynamics in there - its too flat, without any punch at all.

Bring the guitars down a little - a personal opinion - dont like them that loud.

Have fun my friend.

CKK · 8th October 2007, 09:16 AM

I almost forgot - do you mix with a sub? If not beware the low freq's on the bas. If yes, take a closer listen to the bas, some notes jumps out - and some notes lacks bottom end.

headwerkn · 8th October 2007, 03:56 PM

listening on an average 2.1 hifi system... i'd agree, the bass is just coming through as sub frequencies and a bit of string noise. to my ears, the bass and guitar feel disconnected....need to bring some 100-200Hz warmth and body back into the bass to help meld them together into that solid 'wall of guitar' sound, and ensure it translates onto small speakers.

same with the drums - they feel distant. cut the compression, maybe ease up on the snare 'verb and dirty up the sample you're using perhaps too, and make it sound more human. it might be a little loud in relation to the rest of the kit too... all i'm hearing is snare.

vocals are good, level seems about right. i agree, guitar could probably be turned down a smidge in some areas.

i'd be working on getting that interaction between the bass and guitar, and bass and kick drum happening first. it's not always easy to get a punchy, contained bottom end, but listen to some professionally mixed CDs of a similar genre and hear how they balance the elements together. there are no hard and fast rules but generally for rock i carve a hole in the bass around 125-150Hz for the "body" of the kick drum, begin to roll off the sub-bass at 80Hz ish, then blend the bass and guitar around 250-300Hz - as a starting point, then adjust from there. You don't mention what DAW/recording platform you're using... Logic in particular has a tonne of EQ presets that are great when you're stuck in a rut (or short on time)... flip through them until you hear something that's close then tweak from there.

finally, lose the limiter and ease up the compression on everything. a little adaptive limiting or subtle compression to bring the levels up a bit is fine but it really does make the track sound flat... in the choruses those chord changes should be jumping out. a trick i learnt back in college with compression or effects is find the setting that you think is right, then back it off another notch or two. dryer and less compressed almost always sounds better.

overall i think you've done a fine job, just try easing up the compression and revisit that bottom end.

good luck with it, and don't forget to post any subsequent remixes!

drakewire · 8th October 2007, 05:14 PM

Its a decent mix... The drums sound good, but for me they just dont sound like they are in the same song... i am all for creative drums, but at times I dont feel like the vocalist is singing with the music but rather against the music....

This track is very heavily compressed, which puts a hiss blanket over the whole track that sounds like a wool blanket being swished back and forth over a microphone...
My recommendation would be to pull back and avoid compressing the hell out of the track and instead, cleaning up the vocals...

Over all decent work!

i51423 · 9th October 2007, 04:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CKK

I almost forgot - do you mix with a sub? If not beware the low freq's on the bas. If yes, take a closer listen to the bas, some notes jumps out - and some notes lacks bottom end.

I don't. I mix on KRK RP8s. My current mix situation is pretty rough. I'm working on moving into the new studio I'll be working out of and the room is almost a square with no treatment. :( When I can afford to, I'll do the room over like it should be.

Thanks for the comments, guys.

I decided to try a bunch of different things in this mix and I'm having trouble getting everything right. I normally don't mix nearly as much verb on the snare, but I was trying to cop the sound from the newest Paramore CD. The buss limiter is way overdone. I'm not sure what I was thinking there. Ha. I also tried throwing a compressor on the drum buss. I need to back off on that a bit.

I had a couple commercial mixes I was comparing to as I was mixing, but this room is SERIOUSLY throwing me off. I need to check with headphones a bit more or something.

The drums are definitely rough. Lots of huge tempo changes. I think I was really out of it when we tracked drums and this was the 9th song of the day.

Somehow we didn't catch it until we went to do guitars.

I'm using and MBox with Cubase SX3. I have some basic Waves plugs and a bunch of freeware. Nothing too fancy.

I'm going to try to get him in to possibly rework at least that first verse of vocals. He mentioned that he wanted to do something with this song. This was supposed to go on a split 7", but the small label that was going to do it backed out. Not sure what they're doing with these tracks.

Thanks guys. I'll report back with an updated mix at some point.

CKK · 9th October 2007, 08:06 AM

When mixing, I always try to get the drums/bas/vocals to be the "song". Meaning that when listening, you dont really need anymore instruments on the track.

When these 3 "instruments" sound good together and make a good cake - bring in the iceing for it - guitars, synths, backing vox etc. and mix them to taste (subtle is my best) to make the cake a little sweet, but not too much, when putting too much iceing on a cake you can ruin it, and destroy the good taste of the cake.

(I'm smoking too much weed - I know)

and a

for the heck of it.

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8th October 2007, 08:49 AM	#2
i51423 Gear maniac Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Hatfield, PA Posts: 250	That bad? __________________ Hi, I'm Nick.

8th October 2007, 03:56 PM	#5
headwerkn Gear addict Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Hobart, Australia. Posts: 312	listening on an average 2.1 hifi system... i'd agree, the bass is just coming through as sub frequencies and a bit of string noise. to my ears, the bass and guitar feel disconnected....need to bring some 100-200Hz warmth and body back into the bass to help meld them together into that solid 'wall of guitar' sound, and ensure it translates onto small speakers. same with the drums - they feel distant. cut the compression, maybe ease up on the snare 'verb and dirty up the sample you're using perhaps too, and make it sound more human. it might be a little loud in relation to the rest of the kit too... all i'm hearing is snare. vocals are good, level seems about right. i agree, guitar could probably be turned down a smidge in some areas. i'd be working on getting that interaction between the bass and guitar, and bass and kick drum happening first. it's not always easy to get a punchy, contained bottom end, but listen to some professionally mixed CDs of a similar genre and hear how they balance the elements together. there are no hard and fast rules but generally for rock i carve a hole in the bass around 125-150Hz for the "body" of the kick drum, begin to roll off the sub-bass at 80Hz ish, then blend the bass and guitar around 250-300Hz - as a starting point, then adjust from there. You don't mention what DAW/recording platform you're using... Logic in particular has a tonne of EQ presets that are great when you're stuck in a rut (or short on time)... flip through them until you hear something that's close then tweak from there. finally, lose the limiter and ease up the compression on everything. a little adaptive limiting or subtle compression to bring the levels up a bit is fine but it really does make the track sound flat... in the choruses those chord changes should be jumping out. a trick i learnt back in college with compression or effects is find the setting that you think is right, then back it off another notch or two. dryer and less compressed almost always sounds better. overall i think you've done a fine job, just try easing up the compression and revisit that bottom end. good luck with it, and don't forget to post any subsequent remixes! __________________ "The big hump at the left in each graph is called a "low-end head bump" and is typical of analog machines. Often +2 dB or more, it can exaggerate the low end coming back from the tape, especially with kick drums, and is probably the reason why the adjective "punchy" came into existence. Enjoy." I make websites, btw... B+W Design

8th October 2007, 05:14 PM	#6
drakewire Lives for gear Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 826	Hmmm Its a decent mix... The drums sound good, but for me they just dont sound like they are in the same song... i am all for creative drums, but at times I dont feel like the vocalist is singing with the music but rather against the music.... This track is very heavily compressed, which puts a hiss blanket over the whole track that sounds like a wool blanket being swished back and forth over a microphone... My recommendation would be to pull back and avoid compressing the hell out of the track and instead, cleaning up the vocals... Over all decent work! __________________

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8th October 2007, 09:13 AM	#3
CKK Gear addict Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: DK Posts: 478	Hey m8 You need to work on the bas - VERY muddy. When it comes in, there should be a "slap in your face" kind of feeling - aint happening. The drums need some work too. They are not "there" with the rest - sounds like "here's the band, and oh, here's the drummer". Dont compress the kit that much, let it come forward and drive the shit. Oh, and the timing on the drummer is - less than stellar. Overall, you are compressing too much. Leave some dynamics in there - its too flat, without any punch at all. Bring the guitars down a little - a personal opinion - dont like them that loud. Have fun my friend.

8th October 2007, 09:16 AM	#4
CKK Gear addict Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: DK Posts: 478	I almost forgot - do you mix with a sub? If not beware the low freq's on the bas. If yes, take a closer listen to the bas, some notes jumps out - and some notes lacks bottom end.

9th October 2007, 08:06 AM	#8
CKK Gear addict Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: DK Posts: 478	When mixing, I always try to get the drums/bas/vocals to be the "song". Meaning that when listening, you dont really need anymore instruments on the track. When these 3 "instruments" sound good together and make a good cake - bring in the iceing for it - guitars, synths, backing vox etc. and mix them to taste (subtle is my best) to make the cake a little sweet, but not too much, when putting too much iceing on a cake you can ruin it, and destroy the good taste of the cake. (I'm smoking too much weed - I know) and a for the heck of it.