Modern Rock Ballad - need help

[dh80]

Alright, so here's a song that I just can't get where I want it, and I've messed with it so long that I've lost perspective. I'm hoping someone might give me their thoughts.

Thanks!

[diatonic]

...

[ABGen]

I like what the poster above said, but here is what I'm hearing -

First of all - good song.

The vocals seem to sit back away - i feel like im straining to hear them - the lead distorted guitars seem to overpower the vocals and make the vocals seem even more distant. Perhaps shelfing the guitars and vocals to make each stand out - in fact if you haven't already i would play with a parametric eq to shelf each - check on eq'ing to the key - go on wikepedia and look up piano key frequencies. The kick needs more balls and shelfing the bass from the kick would help too and perhaps sidechaining it lightly. The lead guitars also seem less meaty because the bass seems lacking. Run a 2 bus room reverb and mess with sending guitars to it with maybe panning even harder on the guitars to emphasize the vocals sticking in the middle.

Ok - i'll shut up now - hope this helps.

-Andrew

[dh80]

Thanks very much. I really appreciate the compliments and the feedback. I took the advice you guys gave and applied it and made a few other drastic changes. Have a listen now, if you would, and let me know what you think. Thanks!

P.S. I had the same thought about the song title, and wasn't sure whether to go with "temporary goodbye", so I think you confirmed that I should change that. Thanks!

[ABGen]

its sounding better - the kick feels a little plain plastic - i would play with cutting low mids on it and push the 50-110 hz range. this song needs some boom to the kick without overwhelming the mix. Check your shelfing on the bass - possibly dup the bass once or twice and create 2 or 3 shelfs on the bass to thicken it up - watch the relation from bass to kick with your eq's.

[dh80]

Alright, I played with the kick, killed some of the low-mids, boosted between 50-110, doubled it with a gated techno kick for more punch, toyed with layering another snare sample over it, played with the bass frequencies to give it more body, and tweaked a few other things as well. Would you mind listening again and giving me your thoughts? Thanks a million!

[drakewire]

First above all, this is a board for an honest review and I will do just that without really reviewing the music per se. The thing is at least to me that everything seems hesitant. Like split seconds of guitar and bass that should "hit" at certain points. The time Signatures seem off.
The good thing I see is that the Vocalist definitely has a very workable voice, but this recording is not allowing it to really shine through. The vein here is most definitely got a Nickelback'esq feel to it. So tying that idea, Nickelback is notorious in their ballads for beefing up the drums and wide panning on the guitars. This mix seems very narrow when it goes from the softer parts to the larger parts. The symbols are a little smeared and the bass drum is completely wrong for this song. it almost sounds like a plastic Dr. Groove..
The Snare is almost non existent and for this song the kick and the snare need some warmth and presence. You could always fix that by getting some nice big samples from Steven Slate or something. The musicianship is actually quite good. The guitar playing is well recorded, with the exception of what I mentioned earlier being a bit hesitant. The levels seems okay, but having a loud song does not denote a good recording.. So I am not sure if this has been mastered or simply leveled with a Leveler.
If I were you I would sincerely listen to the Nickelback record and study what they do with the drums and panning, I am not saying that you sound like Nickelback I am simply saying that it would be a good point of reference at least for this song....
Peace
D.Drake

[dh80]

Most excellent advice. Just a question, was that the last mix? I know the kick was pretty lame in the first two (may still be), but I don't want to try to beef that up, only to find out you were critiquing the first one! :)

I really appreciate it, I'm going to use the weekend to clear my ears and try again Monday.

[Myriad_Rocker]

The progression of the mix as the thread went on was good. It got better as you posted different ones. The first mix seemed amateur sounding. The last mix was much better and more on par with what it should end up sounding like.

[psychedeliced]

I agree with most the posts above, the guitars and vocals are fine, the acoustic into especially sounds a lot nicer now you've taken the chorus off. The drums though still don't fill the mix enough maybe try a different sample on the snare and I agree that the kick does still need some beefing up.

[dh80]

Here's a complete remake. How's this sound?

BTW, I HATE the vox EQ on this one. Any thoughts on what would make it sound better?

[roxxon]

I like it...
The guitars sound much better, on this revamped version.
The mix sounds very, good overall.

Kinda' NickleBack-ish-sounding.

[drakewire]

I really really dont like the amount of Reverb on the Vocals.. The Drums sound better but even they have too much Reverb... I think you have gone a little crazy with whatever reverb program... Personally the Chorus Effect (Sounds very Genesis to me) on the Acoustic Guitar is not working for this track either...
right now this mix is extremely wide!!! You have way way too much high's... Dry up the sound, and you will have a good song....
I take back my earlier assessment no nickelback, listen to Hinder....
In fact, do exactly the same thing... and lose most of the reverb and chorus... :)
Peace
D.Drake

[StevieRaveOn]

Dude, the tracks really progressed over the course of the mixes you've posted. I'm a complete amateur, so take all this with that in mind.

- I like the vocals on the newest version, but just a bit too much 'verb. It's one of the things I still end up doing all the time, so it stood out to me. The vocals definitely need to be heard, but at a few places they stand out a good bit, more than I would go for... You might try automating a few spots just so they don't overpower the rest of the mix, unless that's what the client wants. One section that stuck out was the end of the first verse/beginning of first pre-chorus/chorus... Right now, it seems like the band builds to match the vocals, I would approach it to where the vocals build with the band. Again, just personal preference and nitpicking. But, it might be the amount of separate 'verb separating it from the rest of the track.

- On the cello... in the most recent mix, I'd almost drop it more to where it was felt, but not heard... To where you'd miss it if it wasn't there, but you wouldn't hear it peak through on the third chord of the intro.

- I like the chorus guitars better, they had a great tone in the previous ones, just a bit too loud, backing them down seems just right to me. BTW, what was the guitar chain?

- Now, I'm not very experienced at bass, so this is just my intuition going as if I was dealing with the mix... but, I'd pull a little more off of the bass with the compressor and bring the level down just a tad more. It's just if the bass line isn't doing something fairly unique to the rhythm guitars in a setting like that, I'd like to not tell there was a separate line there as much... basically, just trying to blend it into the bottom of the guitars more.

- I know even less about drums than I do bass :)... but, I'd bring the snare up a bit. Maybe adding a sample of a slightly fuller snare in there and riding the two to get more body to it, especially in the verses.

- If this is doable, I really hear the lead as a neck pickup lead... If it were me, Les Paul with a Seymour Duncan Jazz PU in the neck would nail it for me. Just a great smooth sound, more full than the bridge but still cuts well because of the character of the Jazz, but I digress. If that's doable, I'd also add a bit of delay to it... At something like an 8th or dotted-8th note, some high on the repeats to smooth out again. If you've got a tap delay, maybe setup a couple of sets to pan out to add a bit of space and what not to the lead. And, last thing, if a redo is possible, I'd see if the player would try a version without any, or a lot less, vibrato.

I dig it man, can't wait to hear the final product. BTW, is this your band, or just a client? I'd be interested in hearing some more material.

[diatonic]

...

[Audio Hombre]

the acoustic in the intro sounds like it's HPF'd @ 500hz or higher.not diggin it at all.compression seems to be squeezing the life out of it to.like there's to fast an attack and to long a release but it isn't "adding anything" to the song imho. there's also some sort of low-mid build up in the vocal in the quieter parts that's just to bulky. real built up in the 125-250hz range. the song also clips when it goes for the big nickelhax chorus. overall the track has too much energy in the sub 100hz area i think. i also think the track is way too crushed i know loud is proud but still. ouch it's distorting dude.

[csiking]

Hey Fellow Slutz!

I emailed this guy and we arranged for him to FTP me the individual tracks so I could take a crack at mixing his tune. Here is what I have so far would love to see what all of you think on this one. I normally charge for this but I thought this song had so much potential that I just did it for fun.

http://www.creativesoundimages.com/m...%20Goodbye.wav

I'm thinkin' the drums are a little hot - what do you guys think about the low end? Woofy? Also looks like I didn't get the guitar solo from him after I just listened to his post. I will add that later. Lemme know what you think.

Oh and a few things about the track that were slightly challenging: Keyboard Bass (ewww), Drums seems to mechanical so I replaced them, Guitar parts (all) where committed - and everything seemed to be recorded with marginal mics and pre's - just a guess. Performance is what pulls this song together.

[Rogervandeberg]

I listened to your first mix for like 10 seconds, and i thought, "hey, this is the guy from 'im the one' which is still one of my favorites in my daily playlist!"
Again a great song imho, i want to be a fan of your band!!! I'll have a listen tomorrow on your latest mix. Keep up the good work!

this is the other topic for those who are interested:
Need feedback as quick as possible (Pop/Rock Ballad)

[Todd]

This is a complete ripoff of "Someday" by Nickelback.

The build up to the chorus, the beat, the phrasing of the chorus.

Its all exactly the same. Not a bad mix. Its just a completely
un-original tune.
We dont need another Nickelback. We dont even need Nickelback for
that matter.
You may have a future in doing soundalikes for TV. Look into it.
TK

[Audio Hombre]

Originally Posted by Todd

This is a complete ripoff of "Someday" by Nickelback.

The build up to the chorus, the beat, the phrasing of the chorus.

Its all exactly the same. Not a bad mix. Its just a completely
un-original tune.
We dont need another Nickelback. We dont even need Nickelback for
that matter.
You may have a future in doing soundalikes for TV. Look into it.
TK

Originally Posted by Audio Hombre

the song also clips when it goes for the big nickelhax chorus.

sorry but gotta agree. it's just so blatantly a rip that it's hard to handle. the vocals have a very good kroeger thing going if thats what you want. it's also not nearly as tight as the originators of this song and maybe could be fixed by sucking it to the grid.



the mix by this other chap is better but the bass still really bugs me. way too compressed and it sounds like there's 1000ms of release. just no dynamics to it and very linear.

[dh80]

I tried a new bass, which I'm not sure makes much difference. I made the mix a bit more narrow and messed around with some other stuff. So far, I've only mixed it on headphones, so the bass may not be anywhere near right.

[dh80]

I should add that I just checked out the bass tone. It sucks. :)

I don't own a bass. I usually wait till I'm done recording a whole CD, then rent or borrow a pretty nice bass from someone else to redo the bass tracks. So I guess I'm mainly looking for feedback on the mix MINUS the bass. I know that's hard. Anyhow, I got a LOT of great tips from you all, and I'm very grateful for them. The mix has come a long way. Still has a bit to go, but...

As for Nickelback, yeah, I can definitely see what you're saying. I might change something around to make it different. It actually sounds like more than one Nickelback song, imo, not nearly as good, but in that same formula maybe. I wasn't really concentrating on maybe doing it completely my own way. I actually wrote it a few hours after my brother who I was VERY close to tragically died in a motorcycle accident at the age of 29. This was my outlet. Maybe after the fact I can change it around to sound my own.

I'm not a huge fan of Nickelback, but to Audio Hombre's "Kroeger vocal" comment, thanks!! I'll take that one!

Well, who knows what it will sound like come CD release time. Thank you all so much for the helpful feedback, even the ones that are sometimes hard to swallow, or a bit of a sting to the ego. :) You guys rock, and I thank you.

Have an awesome one!