DACS Micamp - Stereo Live Jazz

[jdunn]

Here's an mp3 of the group 'Tubop'. My cousin is the tuba player. It was recorded outdoors with a pair of Audio Upgrades modded AKG C460 B/ULS through a Mytek ADC 8x96. I did some very light mastering compression and dithered with POW-R 2. There is no eq, but I did use the 30 Hz highpass filter on the DACS to cut out rumble.

I have a few more mp3's, but I'll just attach 1 per post. Uh, I screwed up. The post below will contain the mp3 I guess.

The cardioids were very widely spaced, so this does not really fit into any of the typical stereo techniques.

[jdunn]

Okay, here it is!

[PlugHead]

Nice sound: I'm intrigued by the modded 460's and the DACS as front end - tuba is "tubby" sounding, but supportive, but the recording is crystal clear, and nicely detailed - how far away were the mics from the tuba/stage? He has a nice sound, and good intonation, but sounded like a scripted solo. However, I think the recording shows a good side of the group.

I want to post some low brass/(punk) ukelele: still waiting for the magical (release) date...

best,

[jdunn]

PlugHead -The mics were probably about 15' back from the stage, on either side.

This is not actually the regular group, there were a few subs that night as I recall. The sax player was pretty 'on' though I think.

On the tuba, that seems to be the tone of his instrument. I've recorded it different ways w/ different mics, and it always has that tubbiness. Maybe I'll eq it some when we do an actual release.

He played on some Big Bad Voodoo Daddies stuff, and they used like 6 mics on the tuba overdubs! Sounded great though, I don't know what they did to blend all those tracks in the mix.

Thanks for your comments!

[Ruphus]

WOW, what a lovely track!
Really, I´m fascinated.
Great playing and recording, absolutely.

About the tuba, indeed a bit tubby as you guys say, but technically top notch captured. Especially the tubas lows are defined like I can´t imagine better ( and the guy plays them terrificly! ). Not the tiniest bit of smearing.

That´s at least what my humble ears say.

Great work, Jdunn. My big respect!

Ruphus

[jdunn]

Ruphus - Thanks so much for the enthusiastic comments. My cousin will be stoked. He's been playing with the house band at Disneyland, 'The Side Street Strutters', for 20 years now. This is one of the side projects that gives him a refreshing change from dixieland, etc...

Are you able to play mp4's, also known as AAC? If so, there are 2 more tracks of these guys on my site at J-Dunn/Music

Track 2 is the same one, but Track 3 is a different number from the same gig. And below that is a multitrack recording we did a few years ago.

I have another track from that live session too, but I'm out of server space for now. If I can find the track, I'll upload it here perhaps (in MP3).

About the MP4/AAC..... It's an improvement over MP3, and if you're on a Mac you can play them for sure. If you find that your built-in player on PC doesn't handle this format, it may need an upgrade! Or, there are some links on my 'mp4' page that you should be able to follow to find a compatible free player.

[jdunn]

Here's that live track that's not on my site. This is 7.2 MB, might be just a bit too large for upload, let's see.

[jdunn]

Tried to upload an mp3 of that 3rd track which is in mp4 on my site, but the upload speed dropped down again for some reason. That last one uploaded pretty fast. It's my stupid 2-way satellite connection I think, not Gearslutz fault. I'll try again later.

[Ruphus]

Hi Jason,

I had been trying already after the first song, but mp4s won´t work on my PC while I´m a bit hesitant at present to install anything on my shaky system.

But I listened to track3 now ( track1 link didn´t work ) and enjoy one more time.
Miking and mixing a pleasure as before and while this piece was a bit less of my taste ( although the winds pulled me in once again ) it´s great to observe how these guys know what they´re doing. ( Reminds me that I´m not worth it. )

These guys must be pros. ( Colleagues of your cousin?)
And please tell your cousin my condolence. It must be so gruelling for an artist to play the same stuff again and again everyday at Disneyland. He must have some mental trick to overcome the situation.

But I guess it brings him enough dough to shop instruments of the finest. Guess for that I would play at McDonalds ( provided people would still stay there then, ehe.)

Let me smartass on one thing though. You know I´m a relative greenhorn, no comparance to the knowledge of the old hands and it might well be that those wouldn´t think so, but I do yet .

What I mean is the drums. People, and you seem guilty too ;O), spread the kit almost throughout the entire stereo range and make a too huge thing out of it. That makes it unrealistic.

I mean I might be a bit too extreme with this, but especially in realistic music I would prefer an only roughly corresponding positioning.

You might have space left over especially during solo breaks and such and think it would be a waist to leave it "empty", but still.

The way all the other instruments ( love the sax!) stick into the panorama though is just great.

I would always like to hear more from you guys.

Best and thanks for the pleasure,


Ruphus

[jdunn]

Trying again.

[jdunn]

Ruphus - I agree that the widespread drum thing can be bothersome. That particular track was really sparse however, so it may help to fill out the soundstage. This was before I ever bothered to set up a main stereo pair in addition to the close mics (I'm still learning too!). Had I done that, I'm sure I would have panned it naturally as the musicians were placed.

FWIW, when we do the real project, I plan to put piano on one side and drums on the other, and there will be a stereo pair in addition to a few spot mics as needed. The only problem I have with this group is that the regular drummer tends to play way too loud on the more upbeat cuts. I'm trying to get him to tone it down a bit.

These guys are indeed pros, and they have yet to be thrilled with any of their performances that I've captured. Their playing I mean

As far as the tuba itself, my cousin wants one of these special new Yamahas that have really fast action or something. There are only 6 of them in existence right now, he's trying to get one from Japan, as he knows the cat who they were designed for.

My cousin (John Noreyko) loves playing in Germany, and was recently schooling me on German breweries. I think he won a soloist award at a festival there once too.

I have a bunch of tracks from that multitrack session, one Coltrane'ish tune that I think you'll really like. I'll try to do a rough mix of it this week and post an mp3, with the drums not all over the place.

[Ruphus]

Hi Jason,

The tubas story sounds thrilling. Guess that thing will be a precision mashine. Makes one wanting to start play tuba just by thinking to the gear. ( In such a way once I almost bought a mountain bike only for its metal work. Merely the question what the hell to do with a mountain bike in the city kept me from getting bankrupt.)

In track 1 at the end of the drum solo someone in the back says "come on! ..." and I funnily found myself a bit agreeing. The drummer is very good, but I think you´re right. Especially advanced like him can afford to sneak and gather tension before attack.
The sax player I bet likes the girl from Ipanema, this and some more stuff seem almost close at times in the improvisations.
Yes, let´s see the coltraneish tune.

What falls into my mind back about jobbish playing. When I had a stay in NY in the early eighties somewhere in Manhatten, maybe 5th Avenue or so ( not sure ) there was a black guy on the street who used to play the Pink Panther. I think he played only that. Everytime I came along he was playing PP. But this fella managed to play that thing each and every time so groovy you where sucked into it again and again. There might exist the art of persistance. ( Which is different from monotony despite the cycle.)

BTW, compositions, do you think you could introduce them into this one ( chances are some of them would know it ) and ask whether they had lust to try it?

I can well imagine they could be liking to. And the composer as well I believe, according to an interview he´s very appreciating . ( Wonders why people play his stuff, but feels honoured. )

Greets,

Ruphus

[jdunn]

Now that you mention it, I seem to recall that there are two different drummers sitting in on this gig. 2 tracks are 1 guy, and the other track is the 2nd cat. I don't remember which is which though at the moment.

Neither of them is actually the regular drummer in the group (Jimmy Ford), who plays way louder than these two guys. When I get my Fairlight back next week I'll upload something that he really slams on.

Also, sorry if I'm not clearly understanding you. Did you want them to play 'The Pink Panther', or a tune called 'Compositions'? Who is the composer? They do take requests! I've got several takes of Tubop doing 'Fishing Hole', which was the theme song from The Andy Griffith Show.

[Ruphus]

Hey, that´s great to know!
The example I mean is linked under the bold question mark in the above post. ( premature Easter egg ;0)

I would really love to hear them playing this one. I think these guys can do it.


Ruphus

[Ruphus]

And there is another tune that I love so much.
"Remember Mr.Banks" from Charly Parker.
That thing is so freaking great too!

Ruphus

PS: How do they like your recording and mixing?

[jdunn]

I listened to the track, 'Cloudy'. A simple tasty blues. Tubop could do a nice arrangement of this.

As far as my work, they are always happy. It's usually their playing that they're not 100% satisfied with. However, I plan to improve my recording quite a bit next time we have a session.

Mixing is highly subjective. I've had these guys sit at the console and do some mixing, but they turn it up so loud that it's pretty useless. The thing to do is put up that main stereo pair when recording.

I'm thinking that will make the mix much easier, just delay the spot mics and bring them in a bit as needed. The image will already be there from the stereo mics.

[Ruphus]

Originally posted by jdunn
I listened to the track, 'Cloudy'. A simple tasty blues. Tubop could do a nice arrangement of this.

Simple, but it needs high skills to get it near as moody like the original I think. Can´t wait to hear what Tubop would do out of it. Certainly great stuff.

Originally posted by jdunn

As far as my work, they are always happy.

That´s what I expected.

Originally posted by jdunn
I'm thinking that will make the mix much easier, just delay the spot mics and bring them in a bit as needed. The image will already be there from the stereo mics.

Yeah, sounds very imaginable and convincing.
Would had loved to sit beside you and listen how things will be going.

The Parker piece is a real beauty. I have no FTP installed in the moment, but somewhere at the end of next week or so I shall upload it for you to see. I would bet the band could love to play it.

Your gear is damn good. If you are in the mood to list it that would be interesting to learn.

Best,

Ruphus

[Randall]

They seem to be dead serious about these DACS units not coloring the sound eh?...cool stuff..had to toss on a pair of sunglasses just to listen proper!

[Ruphus]

He he he , I am surprised too.

After the posts about DACS I thought if I would win the competition ( no worries I don´t win things, highest has been 40 bucks from lotto after I had almost sponsored the whole lottery ) I would sell it afterwards, but I´m pretty sure now that I would be keeping that dang and stroke it regularly.

Alone the bass from the tuba just conquered my musical soul.
( Although it is to be regarded that Jason´s stereo unit must be of higher quality than the clear blue build and might be different in the bottom. Do you have an idea about this, Jason?)

Ruphus

[jdunn]

Randall - Thanks for the cool comment.

I don't want to burst anyone's bubble, but those guys did have the sax and tuba going through a small, crappy little PA system. It was barely turned up though. However, this may have affected what you're hearing in the low end slightly. I think the tuba had a little Sony clip mic on it, which goes into the PA. And the sax was probably going in through an SM58 or something as I recall.

Still, if you listen to the kick drum, which is not mic'd at all, it's clear that the low end is being picked up quite nicely. When these guys play live, people are usually wanting to hear the tuba more. It is the quietest instrument, and as I said, the regular drummer really slams the skins.

I think there may one or two notes where you can hear the tuba clipping the little Sony mic. I record at pretty low levels, so that's definitely not my stuff clipping.

What else? Max from DACS did say that the stereo Micamp uses more expensive components than the Clear Blue, and it's not the same identical circuit. Still, I bet it sounds very good.

As for my gear, it's pretty well covered on my website (see the link in my signature). I may be trying some Lavry Blue converters, but I've been very happy with the Myteks so far. I used to have a ton of technical details about these recordings on my site, but it was too long winded, like this post!

I will tell you that the mic cables are the ones that are sold as Requisite Audio cables, which will drive some of you nuts if you were following that other thread! Also, the AES/EBU digital cable is a Nordost Moonglow, which costs about $150 for a .6 meter cable. I do not wish to get involved in any cable war here, please!

The Mytek was routed into a MOTU 896/Apple laptop running Peak for the live recording. I think we're going to do some recording in a nice room at 24/96 in the next few months. I'll keep you posted.

I do have a recording from the exact same restaurant patio, but it's my cousin singing Sinatra tunes and stuff with a backup band consisting of Kurzweil piano, stand-up bass, drums and sax. This was done with a Royer SF-12. Since that mic is figure-of-8, you can really hear the details of the people in the audience, etc... I think I'll look for a few tracks from that recording and post them soon for some additional perspective on the DACS.

[Ruphus]

Thanks for explaining about the PA sytem. With or without side feeding the front end has been able to convey the source pleasantly. The bubble is still tight.

Just checked your signature. Seems a great place, probably killer landscape, nice building and obviously nice gear too.

Your Demeters are in company of much more expensive pres. Are there applications where you prefer them over the others?
( I have a HXM.)

Ruphus

PS: No pun intended. This is my last question until Christmas 3 pm.

[jdunn]

Ruphus - I've been wondering what the differences are between the HM-1 and the newer X series. Is it just a rename, or have they improved the circuit slightly?

There's actually a post over at 3D audio where I talk a lot about the Demeter HM-1, so I'll just put the url here instead of typing it all again. Then we can continue to discuss them here.


3D Audio Forum/Mics & Pres/Demeter thread

I loaned the HM-1 to a friend recently who used them on drum overheads and loved it. I think it's a really great sounding preamp that pretty much sounds good on everything.

About my building, it's just a house. The studio is up in the loft. I'ts got a half-decent machine closet, and other than that, no pro acoustic treatment. I've got a big futon mattress up against one wall, some RPG Skyline Diffusors and Pro Corners, etc...

Soon I'll have it more dialed in, put a bunch of absorbtion on the back wall, better bass traps, and some sort of hanging panels to de-couple the room from the rest of the house somewhat.

What I love about doing mostly minimalist acoustic recordings is that I don't have to go crazy trying to mix a big multitrack mess. Guys like Michael Wagener are clearly brilliant at this, I am not! Also, I don't have to worry whether my mixing room sounds perfect, etc...

My tuba playing cousin just called as I was typing this. I told him he's got fans in Germany, and he said that airfare is cheap and he'd love to bring Tubop there for a little tour. Perhaps you could do a bit of leg work and help make something happen! They will learn a bunch of requests for you, we promise!

We've also got cousins in Spain, so that would be on the roster too.

[Ruphus]

Hi Jason,


First, interesting that you ask about the HXM.
I went back and checked what I have. Seems there have been some components changed and "an additional capacitor said to extend the unit's bass response".

From the data it seems the HXM to have 0,005% more THD and 1 db less output ( +28 into 600 ohms). Its gain is 60 dB which could be a little bit mor than the HM has if I recall that right ( 58?).

Mr. Demeter I respect very much for obviously producing special quality for the money and on top being really thinking for his customer ( adviced me to get me a smaller model for the application I was planning ).
As rather an unobtrusive man he a while ago recommended his newer VTMP-2c to me in a way that made me damn curious about it.

Must be a very good box. Since a while I have been also considering to one day get me a VTDB-2b, because it is supposed to have a much higher input impedance than the HXM DIs.

So hopefully I´ll grab two more Demeters sometime.

Thanks a lot for the link I found it very interesting. Here on GS it appears rather out to recommend Demeter and it was interesting to read the rave from people just as knowledged as the guys here.

Since I got a new pre/comp of what is considered top notch I can see what the difference in the pres is. The other box is indeed huge, fat and in your face. Fantastic animal.
But I´m sure the Demeter will always have his jobs for tracks that you don´t want most upfront.
Also I havn´t yet made a real comparance between the two about guitars. For bass I´m already sure the HXM can´t compete, but for guitars got to see yet. I expect the smooth sound and individual colour to maintain its special value.

Where the Demeter seems unbeatable anyway is in noise level. It is dead quiet. It spoiled me. And for further improving its sound I havn´t yet tried the tip that I found on the thread you just showed me. Will try and put NOS RCA 12AY7 tubes in there and see what gives.

What rooms are concerned I have a nice sounding one here, but the buidling is leaking like a rotten bucket. Need to do most tracking in the booth. :O(

For monitoring I think must have positioned a mess here, however with no parallel surfaces, and when in the monitors sweet spot I think to hear well. But am yet to learn a lot in that response.

And about getting gigs for Tubop here, yeah, I like the idea.

I can´t say to be full of experience with such, however when I´m convinced of something I can be not too bad in talking to people.

There is the owner of Capitol I know down in Hannover ( pretty much the city of public for such genre, guess that´s why Champion Jack Dupreee whom I met there spend his last years in that town, which elsewise isn´t too attractive ) and here in Berlin I have at least my nephew who knows the local scenery very well and shall help me to contact club owners and thelike. And I could try to contact national wide working agencies ( I´d think those to be taken rather cautiously ... , but one could snoop around a bit.)

If you want to tell me more details and what time period you think the tour to happen and all feel invited to send me an e-mail anytime.

I have some folks in Spain too, connected to music ( the doughter of my cousin dances flamenco there and must be knowing the scenery a bit ) and some in France, England and Sweden. The latter however a vague naming, because there mustn´t be any connex. Would have to ask them first.

And there is a very insider lady I know in Russia who could very surely help for good contacts down there.

The most definite for now however is just li´l old me in li´l Germany.

I think with a demo from you guys in hand there would be some options out there without doubt. And if the band was on top of all playing those two titles above I would arrange gigs with Smith&Wesson.

Best,

Ruphus

[jdunn]

Yeah, my Demeters do have some components that were tweaked by Audio Upgrades too.

As for Smith & Wesson, I hope that's a good thing!

[jdunn]

Oops, still looking for those Royer tracks.