R&B/pop/dance track for new release

[Curve Dominant]

This is a track for a vocalist with whom I've been working for some time now, named Oshia Ky.

We've accumulated a CD worth of cohesive material we want to release for the R&B/pop market, and she would like this track to be #1 on the CD.

We also wanted it to pump on the dance floor in the clubs, so the arrangement is kinda sparse (think Neptunes).

Thanks in advance for any feedback!

(An updated mix is posted down on post #5 with modifications suggested by respondents)

[Rader Ranch]

yup, sounds pretty sparse to me. can't you at least kick in something heavy on 2 + 4 at some point for the club version? certainly alot of room to fill it out for CD/airplay versions....rare that anyone can pull off a Prince-Kiss kind of minimalism, particularly w/a vocal that's consistently mellow/smooth like this one. i dunno...

[Stick]

Gotta agree with Radar. Feels a little open for a #1 track to me.

The vocal pitch was a little loose for me too... for as "edited" as the vocal is, I'd like to hear the tuning much tighter. Also, the chorus/doubler thing on the vocals is a little too much for me.

Not sure I dig the kick with the reverb on it... maybe if it was compressed and distorted or something.

Rock on!

[Curve Dominant]

I could blend an 808 or 909 sounding snare into the groove on 2 and 4, especially on the chorus. Not a bad idea.

She's a little sharp on the "lemme rub your shoulders/this is feelin good" line and a few others; I could easily fix that with AT.

I'm also thinking of having her come into the studio to overlay another set of vocals - backs, harmonies and whatnot. In fact I came up with a harmony for the "feelin' freaky" line in the hook just now.

The doubling effect on the vocals in the chorus might sound a little cheesy to a Gearslut, but for urban/pop/dance I would be remiss not to. It's like ear-candy for the clubkids, they just expect that sort of sound. I certainly wouldn't do that on a Nora Jones track though!

Thanks for all the feedback so far. I feel like the track is improving already.

[ttauri]

Two things I see as far as how I'd like it settle into my DJ crate:

- I'd really like the buzzy not-quite-bassline to have more body to it.

- I feel like, in the "I'm I'm I'm a freak" parts, the "I'm"s could have a sharper attack/cutoff to emphasize the syncopation. More of a clipped feel to them.

But fairly close to something I'd spin, overall.

Peece,
T. Tauri

[Curve Dominant]

posted by ttauri:
Two things I see as far as how I'd like it settle into my DJ crate:

- I'd really like the buzzy not-quite-bassline to have more body to it.

- I feel like, in the "I'm I'm I'm a freak" parts, the "I'm"s could have a sharper attack/cutoff to emphasize the syncopation. More of a clipped feel to them.

But fairly close to something I'd spin, overall.

Thanks! I could pan that stereo synth bass closer to center, that would give it more oomph. Maybe a wee boost a 60hz might help too.

Oshia's coming in on Sunday to record harmony vox for the hook.

Below there's an updated mix based on the advice I got earlier today.

> Mixed an 808 style snare into the chorus on 2 and 4 + a little variation

> There's now bits of electric guitar sprinkled throughout the verses

> Applied a bit of A.T. to Oshia's vocal track; not too heavy 'cause I don't like that mechanical sound of too much autotune, but enough to tuck the edges of her intonation somewhat.

> Sent some of the synths to the delay aux in order to increase the spaciousness of the mix somewhat, and sent a hair from the lead guitar track to the delay aux as well

Listening to the "before" and "after" side by side, it's pretty obvious the critiques this track recieved from Radar Ranch and Stick has already resulted in a vastly improved track - thanks guys! You TV/film guys got the ears, man!

[Teacher]

cool song reminds me of a kelis neptune joint.

i think her vox is a tad on the dark side

and i don't like the kick sound, if this is supposed to be a club banga think neptune kick that'll also help with the 'sparseness' IMO...

i'm no help with vox pitch and all that other singer shit...

good stuff though

peace

[BevvyB]

If it were me, I'd have backing voxed the hell out of the freaky chorus and added a bass drum so big the room judders

I think also a harder percussive element in the rhythm would be also something I would have added, perhaps something that evolved as the track went along - thats the time I usually boot up Reason and get strange random but interesting stuff to clatter in the background

My other feeling is that the vox should either be more sexy and seductive OR more rhythmic and percussive - for me it's sitting on the fence somewhat

I feel that even though you have those synth sounds coming in and out, you haven't found the 'hook' sound - the thing that will make someone instantly know that your tune is spinning - something unique to watermark it

However, my opinion and not where you may want to take the song. Just what I would do if you said 'Do something to this'

[Curve Dominant]

Teacher and Bevvy,

Thanks for the great feedback.

Teacher: I'm gonna EQ some of that darkness out of her vocal track.

Then again, she's coming to the studio this Sunday, so I'll probably have her sing the whole darned song over a few times. Especially since I got better mic pres now. I was using those shitty ART mic pres back when I tracked this vocal.

Bevvy,

I just talked to Oshia on the phone, and she's all about tracking mad backing vox in the chorus etc.

For the bass drum thing, I'm thinking: A room-wrecking sub tone in the song's key (one of e-cue's tricks) blended in with the kick (!!!).

I just wanna be careful not to "over-cook" this thing.

[ttauri]

Originally posted by Curve Dominant
I just wanna be careful not to "over-cook" this thing.

Yeah, I think that's a balance to tread carefully around.

To my ears, some of the most authentically sleazy* music is waaaaay minimal (like: old Chicago jack tracks--Adonis, etc). Too far in that direction, though, and you largely shut down commercial appeal, but too far away from that and you lose the closer-than-close intimacy that conveys the feeling.

*I mean sleazy in the best possible sense here.

Peece,
T. Tauri

[Curve Dominant]

posted by ttauri
quote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Curve Dominant
I just wanna be careful not to "over-cook" this thing.
------------------------------------------------------------------------


Yeah, I think that's a balance to tread carefully around.

To my ears, some of the most authentically sleazy* music is waaaaay minimal (like: old Chicago jack tracks--Adonis, etc). Too far in that direction, though, and you largely shut down commercial appeal, but too far away from that and you lose the closer-than-close intimacy that conveys the feeling.

*I mean sleazy in the best possible sense here.

Very well stated, T.

There often seems to be that temptation for musician/producers to "throw the kitchen sink" into a mix.

But nothing makes you appreciate the "less is more" philosophy, than to hear your mix in a club and think, "Damn, that sh*t is way too cluttered." And that has happened to me.

BTW: Oshia is thrilled with the progress so far, and can't wait to re-cut the vocals now.

And I tightened up that bass sound T, and that really helped propel the groove - good call on that note.

[Mike Jasper]

One thing I know about Eric -- he has talent. But this particular version of this song -- and I think I know what he's going for here -- pales compared to the version I heard on his CD last year.

The CD version was amazing. Never said you were stupid.

Jasper

[Curve Dominant]

Yo Jasper!

Where the f&ck you been?

[Curve Dominant]

Never said you were stupid.

No need to state the obvious, yo?

What's doing in Tejas???

[Mike Jasper]

Eric --

Glad you asked. I turned 50 last November, so I'm even more determined to help young singer-songwriters than ever before. My time has come and gone, right?

I have to admit, I was down about the big 5-0, but my babysitter, of all people, told me, "Look. Jasper. You're thin and trim, not bad looking for your age, and you've got all of your hair -- it's not even grey. Lighten up!"

She's great. I don't have any kids or anything, but I figure $7 an hour to have a high school girl hang around the house and console me is a pretty good deal.

Jasper

[BevvyB]

How can you have a babysitter when you haven't got kids?

[Mike Jasper]

BevvyB writes

How can you have a babysitter when you haven't got kids?

Well, I've got money. Same reason I have a girl without a girlfriend.

Jasper

[BevvyB]

[flexoffset]

Originally posted by ttauri
- I'd really like the buzzy not-quite-bassline to have more body to it.

That's what I was hearing, too.

To go with T on this, I found a pretty good hooverish-basslineish patch tinkering around on a (downloadable) demo of the Arturia MiniMoog V.

It's essentially the same timbre of the semi-bassline in the song, but it's got more meat, and once you tinker with the effects and sharpen up the 'loudness contours' it adds a bit more pop to it.

It's not overpowering, and would probably sit well even doubled up with what you already have down.

The patch is "CP_Widebass" and obviously sits in the 'bass' section of the presets on the demo model. You could probably use it between the puffs of white demo-noise and nobody'd know.
Of course, you may have the real thing. :)

I'd be happy to upload a bar of the C-F-A#....D# riff for you to hear it.

---

I like the song. I played it for the Mrs. and she liked it, too.

---

The guitar...
It's certainly ok as it is, but if I would have 'loosened' up the tone a bit ... aired it out and not had the compactness of what sounds like a very direct recording.
It sounded a lot like a very-well-played synth. Maybe that was the point. If so, forget what I said. :)

I'm looking forward to buying her CD whenever you get done with it.

[NeoVXR]

I like the voice and the song. to me, the tuning is somewhat 'oriental', means not much to change, else it is no more so interesting. there might be one or another place you want to correct but its always a very short moment.

to me, the effects are not in best harmony among each other, it's becoming foggy. maybe drum reverb, and voice effects need some tuning that defines a different primary spectrum for each. maybe less density also.
reverberation sounds too built-in preset.

innovation vs listening habits...
well if it was my song I'd really have a bright, jazzy snare explode in the 3, but only once in 4 or 8 bars, with a long reverb (of the explosion type of course, with a long bass decay), starting this after the first chorus. (means to decrease reverb of one of the other drum sounds). or continue/interchange with an actual rock pattern - remember "sign o' the times' by prince...

[j.m]

Hmmm, I hope it's not too late to chime in.

I listened to that song, and I really got hooked to it.

I like the voice of the singer, but I also thought it sounded a little bit too dark.

And as far as the "less is more" philosophy goes - I agree that the less you can "put" or "leave" in a track, the better.
But it's not that easy!

If your track is very minimalistic - like some of the latest Timbaland-Missy-Stuff - you really gotsta be very careful with sound/groove-drum-arrangement.

It all "breathes" somehow in itself, and there has to be one or more elements which "drive" the song.

Especially if it's a Club-Track - the groove must hit automaticly - it has to animate to dance!


As I've listened to the song, I felt like the "drive" is missing.
The rythmic part has to be much more accentuated.
And a good bassline helps also.

So I thought and thought, and couldn't resist.
I downloaded the file and messed around with it in Cubase.

I hope you don't mind Curve-Dom - it's was just for "educational" purpose.

But I don't know how to upload it - don't have webspace or anything like that.

So I'm gonna try it of my pc.
If it doesn't work, I would to mail it to Curve-Dom and maybe he can somehow upload it.


It's just an other "view" from an other angle.
Sometimes the ears can tell better than words, and so here is my little "remix".

[j.m]

Hmmm, I hope it's not too late to chime in.

I listened to that song, and I really got hooked to it.

I like the voice of the singer, but I also thought it sounded a little bit too dark.

And as far as the "less is more" philosophy goes - I agree that the less you can "put" or "leave" in a track, the better.
But it's not that easy!

If your track is very minimalistic - like some of the latest Timbaland-Missy-Stuff - you really gotsta be very careful with sound/groove-drum-arrangement.

It all "breathes" somehow in itself, and there has to be one or more elements which "drive" the song.

Especially if it's a Club-Track - the groove must hit automaticly - it has to animate to dance!


As I've listened to the song, I felt like the "drive" is missing.
The rythmic part has to be much more accentuated.
And a good bassline helps also.

So I thought and thought, and couldn't resist.
I downloaded the file and messed around with it in Cubase.

I hope you don't mind Curve-Dom - it's was just for "educational" purpose.

But I don't know how to upload it - don't have webspace or anything like that.

So I'm gonna try it of my pc.
If it doesn't work, I would to mail it to Curve-Dom and maybe he can somehow upload it.


It's just an other "view" from an other angle.
Sometimes the ears can tell better than words, and so here is my little "remix".

[j.m]

to Curve-Dom:

I hope it's o.k. for you that I've done the remix before asking for permission.

It was really because I liked the Song and thought that way I could show better what points I think could be enhanced, and somehow I really got into "vibe" and ended with that version of the song.

I thought it's worth uploading it.

Hope you'll enjoy it.

Cheers
j.m

[Curve Dominant]

Thanks to everyone for all their feedback on this song as well as Bed Wrekka.

The Oshia Ky CD has been mastered and is ready for distribution, so unfortunately it's too late to apply any further suggestions to these tracks. The final mixes are posted on my website.

JM: Very interesting remix; a little too dense for the needs of the song, but I'll play it for Oshia. I'm sure she'll find it amusing.

Anything can be worked on and tweaked forever, but there comes a point when you have to let it go and let the chips fall where they may, and Oshia and I have reached that point with her CD.

Thanks again!