cool forum

[mwagener]

Very cool idea Jules.

Here is a song by Love Over Gravity, recorded during one of the workshops at WireWorld. We didn't use any EQ during tracking and just minimal compression during the mix on the stereo buss (STC-8). The only other compression is a Distressor on the vocal (about 18-20 dB on peaks) and the Chandler TG-1 on the drum submix, blended in with the uncompressed drums.

I prefer your kick drum 'click' to mine..

How did you set it up to get such a nice hi pitched plasicky metal music 'click'

Any tips?

[mwagener]

Originally posted by Jules
I prefer your kick drum 'click' to mine..

How did you set it up to get such a nice hi pitched plasicky metal music 'click'

Any tips?

Kick set up:
Pearl 24" Studio Master Series, 4" hole in the lower right corner of the front head. DW5000 pedal with hard plastic beater. Aquarian damped head, pad on the beater head.
Inside mic: Shure SM91 - Hardy M1 mic pre - LittleLabs IBP - R-1 converter
Outside: Speaker (from Infinity 2001) - GrooveTubes VIPRE (input impedance 600Ohm, rise time slow) - R-1 converter.
No EQ, no compression. Both sounds separate tracks, during mix more SM91 in Chorus, less in verses (sounds like he is hitting harder in chorus) compressed signal via CraneSong SPIDER (Tape knob on 2 'o clock) Chandler TG-1 on SPIDER insert mixed in with uncompressed kick.


sorry for the bad photo.

Awesome!

Plastic beater eh?

F***kin ideal!

Must get me one o them!



I'm sure there was a lot more work involved than just putting on the beater and patching in the gear - as allways, thanks a million Michael!

[alphajerk]

try those flam pads... they make a ?kevlar? one that adds click. or a quarter taped to the head [but will kill the head quick].

[studjo]

Hi Michael

thanks for the picture. It's cool to see your mics and hear the recorded drum track at the same time.
I'm interested at the mic over the snare (looks quite long like a shotgun (sp?) mic)
How do you use this mic and of course what's that mic?
And while I'm asking your holes into your stomach can you tell me how you use this FOK mic (is it a Neumann U47?)

Thanks a lot for all your contribution at GS. It's really a joy to listen to guys like you.

Jo

[Berolzheimer]

Hi Michael,
Are those sm-87's on the toms?

[mwagener]

In answer to the mic questions:

KICK: Inside mic: Shure SM91 - Hardy M1 mic pre - LittleLabs IBP,
Outside: Speaker (from Infinity 2001) - GrooveTubes VIPRE (input impedance 600 Ohm, rise time slow)
SNARE TOP: Sennheiser 504 - Chandler TG-2 (you can see another 504 on the left side of the headphone mixer, pointing nowhere. That one wasn't used, just a leftover from the TOM mic shootout. I think they are now called 604).
SNARE BOTTOM: 57 - Hardy M-1, gated, keyed by the top snare mic.
HAT: AKG 451 w/CK1 - Hardy M-1
TOMS: AKG 3800 - SPIDER
FOK: SoundElux E47 - VIPRE (impedance 600 Ohm, rise time slowest setting) - 1176 (british mode).
OH: 2X GrooveTube AM40 (GreatRiver MP 2NV) on top of Royer SF-12 (Hardy M-1)
RIDE CYMBAL: Schoeps (underneath) Hardy M-1 (extra -15dB pad)
ROOM: Fritz the head - Summit DPA 200 B

The shotgun mic is a SONY ECM670 camera mic - Chandler TG-2. I use it pointed at the snare from above. Because of the shotgun pattern, it gives a nice roomy snare sound without overbearing cymbals. In some cases I gate this mic in the mix and have the gate keyed by the close snare mic (on the posted MP3 the mic was just slightly mixed in, without the gate)

As a side note: all the mics where chosen after extensive shootouts for that particular drumkit in that particular room.

[Berolzheimer]

thanks!

[mwkeene]

Thanks a lot for taking the time to do this! Its great to be able to hear examples of such fine work, and then to hear what mics/preamps/compressors etc. were used. I need to come to one of your workshops....hopefully I can scrape up enough money this summer for at least one of the 4 day ones... (I'm a poor college student!) BTW, Did you use Royer 121s on the guitars? Thanks again.
-Mike

[nlc201]

Lovin' it!!!! Great vocal tone. Tastefully done on the choruses without being too cheezily massive. I admit I was a little cool on the guitars until the bridge when they really pop out and kick you in the ass. Great energy into the last chorus. Had my head a bobbin'......

If there's one thing that this mix reminds me of.......it's that I need to get off my ass and attend one of these workshops!

[mwagener]

Originally posted by mwkeene
...BTW, Did you use Royer 121s on the guitars? Thanks again.
-Mike

Yep, one R-121 on a ENGL 4x12 with vintage 30W speakers and a R-121 on a Marshall 800 4x12 with 75W Celestions. Amp ENGL Savage 120 Special Edition. Preamp: CraneSong Spider with tape knob on about 2'oclock. No EQ no comp.

[Mario-C.]

great vocal sound !...

Michael, would you care to comment how the vocal was tracked ? it sounds so... right, and theres something going on that makes it sound really big...

[mwagener]

Originally posted by Mario-C.
great vocal sound !...

Michael, would you care to comment how the vocal was tracked ? it sounds so... right, and theres something going on that makes it sound really big...

sure, no problem

vocal chain:

The mic was set up inside a semi circle of 9" TubeTraps with the absorbing side facing the mic. Danny (the singer) was moving from about a foot to about 4 feet away while singing.

recording:
Mic: SoundElux 251, cardioid
Mic pre: VIPRE - 600 Ohm, rise time two clicks down from fast, high pass off
Comp: Distressor - ratio 6:1, attack 4.5, release 3.5, detector=yellow LED on, audio=dist 2. It was hitting 17 to 20 db reduction on the loud parts
EQ: none

vocal comp:
through CraneSong HEDD, tape knob on 11 o'clock

mix:
no additional compression on the vocal track during mix.
no EQ except high pass filter at 80 Hz.

Effects:
a touch of a T.C. D-Two delay set to just under 1/16 note to push the vocal a bit, no feedback, one repeat only, going into T.C. M6000 reverb, preset "Band Rehearsal room" decay 0.9 sec.
Reverb: KSP-8 preset "Real Plate" decay set to 1.7 sec, used in choruses only
also a touch of T.C Fireworx, preset #48 (GutGrut)

in the verses I used a backwards reverb setting from the Eventide 4000, recorded to two tracks and time shifted slightly in front of the vocal, so it sounds like he is breathing before every word.
The long "fly-away" echo (last word of verse 1) was a 1 second delay on the Lexicon Prime Time II (95) with plenty of feedback and repeats

[jbuntz]

Invite me over next time your backup singers are there.

http://www.michaelwagener.com/wspixhtm/singers.html

[gabler]

We are very lucky to have you on this forum. I have learned so much and my recordings are better. You are one of the most down to earth person I have ever met! I just bought a pair of
Schoeps mics for acoustic guitar you recommended,they are excellent. Im going down to Nashville within the next 2-3 months
and would like to ckeck out your studio. Thanks!


Steve Gabler (Perfection Audio)

[Berolzheimer]

Originally posted by jbuntz
Invite me over next time your backup singers are there.

http://www.michaelwagener.com/wspixhtm/singers.html

I guess I shouldn't say anything about singers and "head"

[Mario-C.]

Originally posted by mwagener
sure, no problem

vocal chain:

The mic was set up inside a semi circle of 9" TubeTraps with the absorbing side facing the mic. Danny (the singer) was moving from about a foot to about 4 feet away while singing.

recording:
Mic: SoundElux 251, cardioid
Mic pre: VIPRE - 600 Ohm, rise time two clicks down from fast, high pass off
Comp: Distressor - ratio 6:1, attack 4.5, release 3.5, detector=yellow LED on, audio=dist 2. It was hitting 17 to 20 db reduction on the loud parts
EQ: none

vocal comp:
through CraneSong HEDD, tape knob on 11 o'clock

mix:
no additional compression on the vocal track during mix.
no EQ except high pass filter at 80 Hz.

Effects:
a touch of a T.C. D-Two delay set to just under 1/16 note to push the vocal a bit, no feedback, one repeat only, going into T.C. M6000 reverb, preset "Band Rehearsal room" decay 0.9 sec.
Reverb: KSP-8 preset "Real Plate" decay set to 1.7 sec, used in choruses only
also a touch of T.C Fireworx, preset #48 (GutGrut)

in the verses I used a backwards reverb setting from the Eventide 4000, recorded to two tracks and time shifted slightly in front of the vocal, so it sounds like he is breathing before every word.
The long "fly-away" echo (last word of verse 1) was a 1 second delay on the Lexicon Prime Time II (95) with plenty of feedback and repeats

very interesting Michael, thank you very much for sharing !

[PlugHead]

Ditto -thanks for the audio breakdown of the workshop, Michael: it's awesome you have and hand out recording details so graciously, and meticulously - I wish I could've participated, but even on an (e)level, it's too cool!

[mwagener]

Originally posted by Berolzheimer
I guess I shouldn't say anything about singers and "head"

naa, Fritz is a pretty cool dood.

[strauss]

sounds very nice!!

Was it mixed on the Sony?

[mwagener]

Originally posted by strauss
sounds very nice!!

Was it mixed on the Sony?

Thanx. Yes mixed at WireWorld on the Sonys

[mwagener]

BTW I wanted to mention the little melody in the second half of the intro and the re-intro after the first chorus. It is Danny's voice with a SM58 through a Wah pedal and then through the ENGL guitar amp. Miced with the R-121 and souped out with a lot of reverb in the mix. The idea came from him talking about a melody in those parts, but the (Solo) guitar player had already left, so I had him "sing" the guitar.

[Ckevperry]

Originally posted by mwagener
BTW I wanted to mention the little melody in the second half of the intro and the re-intro after the first chorus. It is Danny's voice with a SM58 through a Wah pedal and then through the ENGL guitar amp. Miced with the R-121 and souped out with a lot of reverb in the mix. The idea came from him talking about a melody in those parts, but the (Solo) guitar player had already left, so I had him "sing" the guitar.

Well he sure fooled me.....very cool.

[c.dizzle]

Sounds great!!

really good work, and so nice of you to share.

While you're at it... Could you explain the 4 mic over head technique, why you use it, what it does for you, what do you look for in the royer versus the other pair? Is it tough keeping everything in phase, are both pairs panned hard left and right? Dou you use phase as eq with the pairs? Again, really great work, cool guits too.

carl

[mwagener]

Originally posted by c.dizzle
Sounds great!!

really good work, and so nice of you to share.

While you're at it... Could you explain the 4 mic over head technique, why you use it, what it does for you, what do you look for in the royer versus the other pair? Is it tough keeping everything in phase, are both pairs panned hard left and right? Dou you use phase as eq with the pairs? Again, really great work, cool guits too.

carl

Those were the mics we selected during the shootout, we liked the combination of those, it worked on that particular drumsetup. The main mic was the SF12 (stereo) and to boost the highs a little we mixed in the Groove Tubes AM40 (now called AM42 I think). They were phase aligned with each other (not that hard, really) Yes, both pairs are hard left right in the mix, but the AM40s were only at 75% of the SF12 level