First Timer - First mix - First full session on my own. Make me better!

RedRocket · 6th June 2007, 06:12 AM

Hey guys, just finished up my first recording on my own. I'm actually the lead singer of the band and bass player. We tracked and mixed in PT 7.3 and had it mastered by Saff Mastering up in Chicago. Please critique the tracks and let me know how to improve. We're beginning to record some more music and I'd love some feedback.

Thanks!
Red Rocket

RedRocket · 8th June 2007, 10:10 PM

any words of wisdom out there?

rino655 · 8th June 2007, 11:47 PM

Hey i like the song and the only thing I'm not totally down with his the kick sound. I know it may be for the style of music your doing but maybe tightening it up would define the song a little bit better.

RedRocket · 9th June 2007, 07:46 AM

Thanks man, you think more beater click would benefit it?

AngelRichardson · 9th June 2007, 03:29 PM

Hey Red Rocket,

Let me preface this with it being an opinion and that it's a grat song and mix anyway, with plenty of character, all the following are just things I would change personally:

Drums:
The Kick is WAY too boomy, if you have any compression on there take it of. If you really must compress it drop the compression ratio way down and lower the release right back.

It sounds a lot like the EQ has been boosted between 200 and 400, giving that "huming thump" sound. If i were you I'd tighten up any boost to the EQ of the kick drum so you're only boosting a very tight frequency range lower down, giving a real kick as opposed to a mushy thump. Alos boost up between the 2-4k area (this changes massively depending on the mic a drum set up) this will give you a lot more definition. First try it with the kick drum solo'd then try it again back in the mix and listen to how it sounds to fine tune your eq.

The snare and cymbols all sound good, though very slightly low in the mix, i have to really listen for both the snare and cymbols to hear what's going on, which shouldn't be much to do with EQ and just need a TINY boost to levels (more for the cymbols than snare) though this is just my taste.

Also you have a lot of ring / reverb on the cymbols and snare, if you can fold this back do so.

Guitar & bass:

Both sound great, maybe a very slight high shelf eq will bring the guitar out, but only slight.

Vocals:
These sound massively compressed and limited (as does much of the track) roll back your limiting and compression on the vocals, and of the whole track if you can.
Vocals need to be slightly higher in the mix to stand forward, though what worries me is when you sing "she looks" - it sounds a little distorted and mushy. Personally I'd roll out a lot of the bass from the vocals, take of all reverb / distortion, and massively EQ the highs to bring them forward. Rememeber the vocals are what cary the song, and the treble will give you your clarity on the vocals. if you want your vocals to jump out of the mix kill of the compression reverb and limiting, then Boost your High freq, you may also want to take a notch out of the high mids to clarify everything up a little.

Try that and see how it sounds, if you could up load a second version of the track that would be great - try an a/b comparison of the two, I'd be interested to hear the difference.

As regards the overall mix, your entir bass and high end is too high and your mids too low, you need to cut the 40-100 area and 1-5k region.

Also, if you can get the origional files over to me in .wav or pro tools format I can have go at mixing it for you then take you though what I did.

Angel.

RedRocket · 9th June 2007, 05:22 PM

thanks man, I'll give those a shot and try and load another mix

VegetativeState · 11th June 2007, 02:53 AM

+1 on kick suggestions... Additionally I would like to hear the drums and bass higher in the mix in general.

RedRocket · 11th June 2007, 02:58 AM

yeah, the reason they're kind of low is the guitar riff is pretty much the basis of the song, more so than the vocals even.

AngelRichardson · 12th June 2007, 05:34 PM

Hey Man,

How's that mix goin?

Look forward to hearing it.

RedRocket · 12th June 2007, 05:54 PM

its coming along, having trouble with the kick EQ, getting it less boomy without loosing the presence.

Glenn Kuras · 12th June 2007, 06:06 PM

I can understand the things theys guys are saying and maybe you should try them, but DO NOT take away from the over all feeling of the song. Dude this is some GREAT SOUNDING garage rock.. You are nailing the sound over all PERFECT.
Where are located? When is your first CD coming out? I will be the first to buy it!!!
You guys ever tour at all?

Glenn

PS. I would take the tambo out of the end. Jet did that already. :)

RedRocket · 12th June 2007, 06:19 PM

Glenn,

Thanks for the kind words man. I was really trying to go for that garage feel yet still have some punch of a modern well recorded CD. The philosophy was no beat detective or autotune and only 2-3 takes per song and NO punch ins. What you see is what you get. Also, only two guitar tracks MAX.

I'm located in a suburb of Dallas, the CD will be done after the next two songs are completed. We're just putting out 7 songs.

We're hoping to tour, trying to work something out with The Elms or another smaller national act. If you wanna stay updated we have a myspace @ myspace.com/thelastoftheashfords

Thanks again to everyone that has replied. Since this is my first mix/recording on my own I really appreciate the feedback.

Glenn Kuras · 12th June 2007, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedRocket

Glenn,

Thanks for the kind words man. I was really trying to go for that garage feel yet still have some punch of a modern well recorded CD. The philosophy was no beat detective or autotune and only 2-3 takes per song and NO punch ins. What you see is what you get. Also, only two guitar tracks MAX.

I'm located in a suburb of Dallas, the CD will be done after the next two songs are completed. We're just putting out 7 songs.

We're hoping to tour, trying to work something out with The Elms or another smaller national act. If you wanna stay updated we have a myspace @ myspace.com/thelastoftheashfords

Thanks again to everyone that has replied. Since this is my first mix/recording on my own I really appreciate the feedback.

I could see you guys with the Elms and if you can work that out on your first tour then all the power to you.
If you guys need any help with the southeast at all let me know. I have a little pull in these parts.

Glenn

AngelRichardson · 13th June 2007, 12:50 AM

Ok this is a really odd way of clipping down the tightness of the kick drum, but it could be an option if you're having trouble with the "boom" of the sound.

(i.e. if it's all there on the original recording)

1. Take out the "boom" frequencies - Eq them all out.
2. Gate the thing to hell. Set the Limit REAL HIGH
3. Compress it to hell with a SLOW attack. the idea is the compressor should be set with a real low threshold, a slow enough attach to let the "beat" come through then drag the levels right down, with a long enough hold to hold the boom out but let the next beat back in.
4. EQ again, this time peaking two very tight frequencies, one for your "click" one for your "thump"

As a said that's a very nasty way to do it, you'll need to load in real time plug ins then set them up as a chain and adjust there parameters individually. If that doesn't work, send me the original take and I'll see what I can do for you

Angel

AngelRichardson · 13th June 2007, 01:15 AM

sorry mate that was rather cryptic. here's a sample:

http://www.peelmuzik.com/drumsamples.wma

I've basically done applied the EQ / Gate / Compressor / EQ to that file, the aim was to take a "boomy" sounding sample and turn it into a tight thump.

Sorry if it's a but messy just knocked it together quickly for you.

And btw, you don't want to EQ your sound as much as i did to that - Otherwise you'll end up with a very coloured and un-natural sound that just wont sit in the mix.

Angel

boxymoron · 13th June 2007, 03:45 AM

I love this song. The guitar sounds great! THe vocals are very good. Try to give the vocals a bit more space (its fighting the guitar on some parts). I would tame the cymbals a bit. Bass can be a bit muddy at times. Good mix, good band. It's got that pushed to the limit sound.

RedRocket · 13th June 2007, 03:47 AM

thanks bro, I totally agree on the bass...I'm replacing those pickups. They were a little muddy on the E string - even more so before I EQed it. Time for some Fender Custom Shop 60's J pickups.

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12th June 2007, 06:06 PM	#11
Glenn Kuras Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 3,787	I can understand the things theys guys are saying and maybe you should try them, but DO NOT take away from the over all feeling of the song. Dude this is some GREAT SOUNDING garage rock.. You are nailing the sound over all PERFECT. Where are located? When is your first CD coming out? I will be the first to buy it!!! You guys ever tour at all? Glenn PS. I would take the tambo out of the end. Jet did that already. :) __________________ Glenn Kuras - GIK Acoustics www.GIKAcoustics.com Need help with your room? click here

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8th June 2007, 10:10 PM	#2
RedRocket Gear interested Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 14	any words of wisdom out there?

8th June 2007, 11:47 PM	#3
rino655 Gear interested Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 14	Hey i like the song and the only thing I'm not totally down with his the kick sound. I know it may be for the style of music your doing but maybe tightening it up would define the song a little bit better.

9th June 2007, 07:46 AM	#4
RedRocket Gear interested Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 14	Thanks man, you think more beater click would benefit it?

9th June 2007, 03:29 PM	#5
AngelRichardson Gear interested Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 13	Hey Red Rocket, Let me preface this with it being an opinion and that it's a grat song and mix anyway, with plenty of character, all the following are just things I would change personally: Drums: The Kick is WAY too boomy, if you have any compression on there take it of. If you really must compress it drop the compression ratio way down and lower the release right back. It sounds a lot like the EQ has been boosted between 200 and 400, giving that "huming thump" sound. If i were you I'd tighten up any boost to the EQ of the kick drum so you're only boosting a very tight frequency range lower down, giving a real kick as opposed to a mushy thump. Alos boost up between the 2-4k area (this changes massively depending on the mic a drum set up) this will give you a lot more definition. First try it with the kick drum solo'd then try it again back in the mix and listen to how it sounds to fine tune your eq. The snare and cymbols all sound good, though very slightly low in the mix, i have to really listen for both the snare and cymbols to hear what's going on, which shouldn't be much to do with EQ and just need a TINY boost to levels (more for the cymbols than snare) though this is just my taste. Also you have a lot of ring / reverb on the cymbols and snare, if you can fold this back do so. Guitar & bass: Both sound great, maybe a very slight high shelf eq will bring the guitar out, but only slight. Vocals: These sound massively compressed and limited (as does much of the track) roll back your limiting and compression on the vocals, and of the whole track if you can. Vocals need to be slightly higher in the mix to stand forward, though what worries me is when you sing "she looks" - it sounds a little distorted and mushy. Personally I'd roll out a lot of the bass from the vocals, take of all reverb / distortion, and massively EQ the highs to bring them forward. Rememeber the vocals are what cary the song, and the treble will give you your clarity on the vocals. if you want your vocals to jump out of the mix kill of the compression reverb and limiting, then Boost your High freq, you may also want to take a notch out of the high mids to clarify everything up a little. Try that and see how it sounds, if you could up load a second version of the track that would be great - try an a/b comparison of the two, I'd be interested to hear the difference. As regards the overall mix, your entir bass and high end is too high and your mids too low, you need to cut the 40-100 area and 1-5k region. Also, if you can get the origional files over to me in .wav or pro tools format I can have go at mixing it for you then take you though what I did. Angel.

9th June 2007, 05:22 PM	#6
RedRocket Gear interested Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 14	thanks man, I'll give those a shot and try and load another mix

11th June 2007, 02:53 AM	#7
VegetativeState Gear nut Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Oregon Posts: 88	+1 on kick suggestions... Additionally I would like to hear the drums and bass higher in the mix in general.

11th June 2007, 02:58 AM	#8
RedRocket Gear interested Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 14	yeah, the reason they're kind of low is the guitar riff is pretty much the basis of the song, more so than the vocals even.

12th June 2007, 05:34 PM	#9
AngelRichardson Gear interested Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 13	Hey Man, How's that mix goin? Look forward to hearing it.

12th June 2007, 05:54 PM	#10
RedRocket Gear interested Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 14	its coming along, having trouble with the kick EQ, getting it less boomy without loosing the presence.

12th June 2007, 06:19 PM	#12
RedRocket Gear interested Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 14	Glenn, Thanks for the kind words man. I was really trying to go for that garage feel yet still have some punch of a modern well recorded CD. The philosophy was no beat detective or autotune and only 2-3 takes per song and NO punch ins. What you see is what you get. Also, only two guitar tracks MAX. I'm located in a suburb of Dallas, the CD will be done after the next two songs are completed. We're just putting out 7 songs. We're hoping to tour, trying to work something out with The Elms or another smaller national act. If you wanna stay updated we have a myspace @ myspace.com/thelastoftheashfords Thanks again to everyone that has replied. Since this is my first mix/recording on my own I really appreciate the feedback.

13th June 2007, 12:50 AM	#14
AngelRichardson Gear interested Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 13	Ok this is a really odd way of clipping down the tightness of the kick drum, but it could be an option if you're having trouble with the "boom" of the sound. (i.e. if it's all there on the original recording) 1. Take out the "boom" frequencies - Eq them all out. 2. Gate the thing to hell. Set the Limit REAL HIGH 3. Compress it to hell with a SLOW attack. the idea is the compressor should be set with a real low threshold, a slow enough attach to let the "beat" come through then drag the levels right down, with a long enough hold to hold the boom out but let the next beat back in. 4. EQ again, this time peaking two very tight frequencies, one for your "click" one for your "thump" As a said that's a very nasty way to do it, you'll need to load in real time plug ins then set them up as a chain and adjust there parameters individually. If that doesn't work, send me the original take and I'll see what I can do for you Angel

13th June 2007, 01:15 AM	#15
AngelRichardson Gear interested Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 13	sorry mate that was rather cryptic. here's a sample: http://www.peelmuzik.com/drumsamples.wma I've basically done applied the EQ / Gate / Compressor / EQ to that file, the aim was to take a "boomy" sounding sample and turn it into a tight thump. Sorry if it's a but messy just knocked it together quickly for you. And btw, you don't want to EQ your sound as much as i did to that - Otherwise you'll end up with a very coloured and un-natural sound that just wont sit in the mix. Angel

13th June 2007, 03:45 AM	#16
boxymoron Gear nut Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: next to NYC Posts: 127	I love this song. The guitar sounds great! THe vocals are very good. Try to give the vocals a bit more space (its fighting the guitar on some parts). I would tame the cymbals a bit. Bass can be a bit muddy at times. Good mix, good band. It's got that pushed to the limit sound.

13th June 2007, 03:47 AM	#17
RedRocket Gear interested Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 14	thanks bro, I totally agree on the bass...I'm replacing those pickups. They were a little muddy on the E string - even more so before I EQed it. Time for some Fender Custom Shop 60's J pickups.