Two popular monitors. . .

[Autocrat]

Need to decide which speakers to keep. Please let me know which mix you prefer.
Any general critique would be cool too.

I hear differences but I have a difficult time w/ the low end.
I'll reveal the speakers after a few posts.

Thanks

[Bdiggy]

#1

[Copeland]

I concur, keep set #1.

[bove]

The sound of the bass on #1 is much "tighter", #2 has a wide "boomy" sound. I like the clearer pitch definition in #1, so I'd choose that one.

[atomtom]

This a tough call because in order to compare monitors we need to assume that your mix was done well. My problem with #1 is that the vocal dominates way too much for my taste. In contrast #2 seems much more even - better balanced. Again assuming that your mix is OK I feel that #1 has a bump in the mid-range.

[n8tron]

great song.

also, great idea for comparison

vocals I thought were fine in both mixes. I like the bass in 1 better but I liked the guitars in 2 better. The guitars were to muddy in 1 especially when you had multiple guitars happening. They were clearer in 2. Drums were fine in both but I thought the kick was better in 2, perhaps because it was being buried by the bass in 1.

all in all, I thought in the beginning mix 1 was better because it was fuller, but when everything came in mix 2 was better for me. 2 would be my final choice.

can't wait to find out which speakers are which mix...

[bove]

Just to clarify, what exactly have you done here?

I was assuming that you made two mixes, shooting for the same sound on both, but that you had a different monitor setup while you were making each of them.

Or is this the same mix, played back through two different sets of monitors and recorded?

[Autocrat]

Originally Posted by bove

Just to clarify, what exactly have you done here?

I was assuming that you made two mixes, shooting for the same sound on both, but that you had a different monitor setup while you were making each of them.

Or is this the same mix, played back through two different sets of monitors and recorded?

I made a mix on one set of speakers and then mixed the same song on a different pair of speakers. All in the same room, same setup. The mixes were done a few days apart, so my goal was just to mix what I thought was good given what was playing at the time.

I'm going to upload one last version of speaker2 then I'll reveal the speakers.

Thanks everyone for your response(s).

[Autocrat]

I put up the new mix from speaker #2.

[n8tron]

after a few more listens, I think the drums could be louder

but this is a damn good song.. is it on a record of yours coming out soon? I love the guitar sound and playing. the vocalist is great too. not even a style that I'm super into but really good.

[Autocrat]

n8tron - thanks for the kind words. I'm just a hobbyist, so I don't get to do this very much. We're working on an album now but it's a little slow going.

There are a few more songs on the myspace account, but I'll try to post up some more for you guys to critique.

I stopped by your site and like the sounds. We're so inept when it comes to the midi stuff.

[atomtom]

Originally Posted by Autocrat

I made a mix on one set of speakers and then mixed the same song on a different pair of speakers. All in the same room, same setup. The mixes were done a few days apart, so my goal was just to mix what I thought was good given what was playing at the time.

I'm going to upload one last version of speaker2 then I'll reveal the speakers.

Thanks everyone for your response(s).

Somehow I was under the misapprehension that you recorded the same mix while it was being played through two different monitors.

Anyhow, the question you are asking is not so much about which monitor is better, more accurate, revealing, etc. The question is about the interaction between the monitors, your room, and your personal preferences. More precisely, which monitor enables you to make better mixes (i.e., mixes which sound and translate better).

Having said all that, #2 seems better for you. The end result is definitely more even and polished. In contrast, #1 seems to inspire you to overcompensate. My guess is that in your room that monitor sounds far from flat.

[Bdiggy]

Is it so hard? #1

[Autocrat]

Correct, the question isn't about which monitor is flatter or more accurate but rather which one helps me produce better mixes. And that's why I asked for opinions since the only thing you have to judge by is the end result.

Well, the two speakers are:

#1 - Adam P22
#2 - Focal Solo6

I like the low end of the Adams and the fact that I can hear and take out the mud is nice, but sometimes I feel they're too analytical and not musical. I know they're very honest so even some commercial CDs aren't very enjoyable.

The Focals sound more musical (while still being accurate) but it's hard for me to pinpoint the low end. Seems like I'm always guessing the kick and bass. Imaging is a little better than the Adams and mid detail is excellent.

I think my bass problems are partly due to my room, even though I have tons of bass traps up. I have a feeling that if I mix acoustic/vocal songs, they'd sound better on the Focals while rock or bass heavy songs would sound better on the Adams. Too bad I can't keep both.

[bobwarren]

Mix #1 grabs me! I like the song very much as well. I think I could use a bit more snare in the chorus.

[HIGHENDONLY]

What converter's did you used for playback when mixing?

[Autocrat]

Originally Posted by HIGHENDONLY

What converter's did you used for playback when mixing?

I have a BlackLion Moded 896HD using Digital Peformer 5.

[stevetothink]

The low end in #2 sat much better with me. That cleaned up the mix and made me pick #2 at first. But the last 10 seconds of the song sounded better on mix #1. It was more open in the vocals.

Ah - who knows. Maybe I don't know what I'm talking about. Both sounded pretty darn good.

[lukasbrooklyn]

neither sounds that good to me, sorry :P

[Spec]

unusual monitor comparison in as much as the adam 22 are significantly larger monitor in size and driver (and cost) and hence i am not surprised to hear you find the low end more extended and defined on the adams.

before i bought the focal solo6 i compared with the adam p-11A much closer in size and costs to the solo 6. a better comparison for you would be to listen to the solo twins.

however as you say the mids in the focals are nice and that is where the money is in most mixes IMHO i have siilar feelings about the low end on the solo 6 but i bought them for the mids and top end. i am saving for the sub to go with solo6. maybe you should listen to the twins or the solo 6 with the sub.

ultimately i think this interesting approach to monitors comparison shows that ideally we all new more than one set of near fields. at this end of the market anyway.

thanks for the post - interesting approach if somewhat unbalanced comparison.

[Nrt]

The bass definition way better in #1. I'm listening them with Focal Twin6 here. Bass response of Solo6 and Twin6 seems to be different.

[Musiclab]

This is a silly way to compare what speakers tell you. If you had an automated mix up
or a mix that required no moves at all, and switching from one set of monitors to another set informed you of some changes you had to make. That would be different.
I actually recently had that experience. Gregoire Ubik came by with a pair of Focal Twin 6's after I had printed mixes that I had done. I then reacted to what I heard coming from twin 6's. They gave me the answer to what had bothered me with my previous
version, so much so that I coughed up the bucks and bought a pair.

[Autocrat]

Originally Posted by Musiclab

This is a silly way to compare what speakers tell you. If you had an automated mix up
or a mix that required no moves at all, and switching from one set of monitors to another set informed you of some changes you had to make. That would be different.

Actually, I did do that and I did notice the differences, but the differences were unique to each speaker. I made changes based on what each speaker told me but that didn't always translate.
By mixing the same song separately on each speaker, I could see how they uniquely translated to other systems and how that difference was either desireable or not.

I'm sure if I was "stuck" with one I could learn it well enough to make all the necessary compensations for translation, but hey, this is Gearslutz

[u b k]

interestingly, i'm listening on focal twin 6's and, listening to mix 2, the first thing i'd do is pull up and shape the bass, because it's practically non-existant to my ears. the solo's have very similar bass response to the twins, and the response is not shy, so i'm guessing they're overwhelming your room and causing you to undermix. is your room treated? i'm gonna proceed with the assumption that it's not properly treated; if i'm wrong, then everything i'm about to say is probably wrong as well.

if you're having difficulty judging the low end, the placement of kick and bass, you have room response issues. the adam's seem to address this, presumably by being way lighter on the bottom. that comports with my experience of adams, they're very light down there.

as a practical matter, you seem to have found in the adams a set of monitors that works for you in your room... the path of least resistance is to stick with 'em. my guess is that if you ever get into a space that allows bass to breathe and develop properly, you'll find your mixes have way too much low end as you overmix to make the adams sound the way they do in your current room.

in any case, if you haven't done so, dial back the bass trim on the solo's to -2db, maybe -2.5db, and see how that affects your perception of the bass and lowmids... the areas of mix3 that are weakest by far.


gregoire
del
ubk
.

[Spec]

li could not download the second focal mix so only listen to the original mixes. i looped them and A/B them 20 times and listened to them on the solo 6 which i have had for about 10 days. my brief thoughts:

(i) in terms of kick bass separation - no matter how hard i tried i could not hum the bass-line from the solo mix. i did not have much more luck on the first mix either.

(ii) the kick on the solo mix was defintely more pronouced than on the adams mix. you can clearly hear it "whacking" more prominently than on the adam mix where i thought it got lost especially when in the full mix. however that is not to suggest it sounded better - that is for you to decide - just more defined on the solo mix.

(iii) kicks and the solo 6. funny even though the style of music is v. full i instantly recognised the quality of the kick on the solo mix as similar to what i am getting from my solos. my feeling is they have a tiny bloom in the mids about 150K maybe a little lower. because my kicks are a touch bloomier on the focals than my old monitors. BUT it maybe also be my room that is large and untreated with high ceilings. i am not working with much drums right now so i cannot say for certain but its my gut feeling at the moment. i may also try nudging the low end down a db or two.

(iv) kick / bass separation. i just think that given the size of the solo 6 bass defintion is going to be bit of issue. it was the tops and mids that motivated me to buy the focals. thats what near field monitoring is all about IMHO. have been wondering about the solo sub for christmas.

[Autocrat]

Thanks for your insight Spec. Yeah, I feel I have a lot of info in the lower-mids (it's not necessarily muddy, but it is more than what I'm used to in today's rock recordings).

With what I'm hearing from the Focals, I seem to be making "flatter" mixes which may not be very appealing especially in the bass area.

I'll try a few more variations in my mixing this week and see what happens.

[condivi]

Hey man By far first mix is better i am listening on my adam a7's so maby thats why it sounds so good. Wow great production the highs sparkle on the first mix. bass sits really well love it. and vocal sounds ausome.

Second mix sounds no wear near as good. bass mudy and lose. vocal sticks out in the mix. Thats all on first impresion.

on second impression highs sounds better in second mix less in your face but the bass is def better in the first mix.

[racemize]

I vote for number 1 as well (although I'm listening on crappy speakers at the moment).