First Mix, Young Mixer, Alt/Rock, HELP PLEASE

[jaysunice]

Empty Sky Trial.mp3

Please tell me what you think; keep in mind I'm only 21 and working with some less than optimal gear -- everything went through a MOTU 896HD and was mixed ITB with Logic and one UAD card.

The mix has some issues that are still being cleared up...for instance the second pre-chorus, but I'm looking for feedback to make sure I'm in the right direction.

I don't need to be reminded of the issues with the playing and musicians themselves, just mix issues...

In particular, I have been struggling to get the bass to sit appropriately. As it stands, the direct bass sound is going through Amplitube 2.0 to get a nice amp and cab simulation, but it's not being pushed that hard (maybe I should push it more???). It's also going through a pretty "standard" eq setting and being compressed about 5 dB with the LA-2A plug-in and then through Logic's subbass plug-in for some extra harmonics. It's definitely eating up my headroom, but I'm hesitant to lower it in the mix as I feel then you wouldn't be able to hear it, and I especially need to hear it "sing" during the final part of the track.

The mix itself has a pseudo master on the bus -- I left about 3 dB of headroom for the 1176 to act as a bus compressor and then used the precision limiter to get some more dB and catch any overs. I still, however, do not feel it has that "record-ready" feel; aka I think my RMS levels could be higher?

I hate posting mp3s especially at 128, but that was the only way I could get it to fit. I'd be willing to post the bass track alone, but I don't have enough space? Any recommendations of posting a public online mailbox of some sorts?

Wow, that was longer than I would've liked...thanks to all that help me out!

[TyRip]

Pretty good overall, but you are right about the bass not sitting right.

It sounds to me like you were doing a lot of processing and eq on the bass while in solo. I don't feel like it needs that much reach down low, but that it needs more mid to low mid growl.

Pay close attention to what is happening at around 400 and 800. As Slippy puts it, 400 is the growl and 800 is the yowl of the bass. I think a little more care around those ranges, with a little less enhancement may be the ticket.

[RobR]

I would suggest nixing the flange.
But, mind that I'm a stickler about it sounding like two tape machines.

If it's good for you or the band; then don't listen to me.

[jaysunice]

I agree with the flange, but got tired of arguing with the band...I was like, you really want it that present? I have it automated so it's not so drastic in some parts, maybe I'll tweak it some.

TyRip --
Care to elaborate on the 400 and 800 range? I'll definitely try them out, but any more specifics would be greatly appreciated...espeically when it comes to making it sing during the last phrase of the song. My monitors aren't the greatest, nor do they reach very low, so I have to keep running out to my car...

Keep it coming...

[Nicosour]

Great work! I like it!

Only one thing...what kind of mic you used? And are there plugs on vox?

Thanks and congratulation!

Nico

[jaysunice]

Originally Posted by Nicosour

Great work! I like it!

Only one thing...what kind of mic you used? And are there plugs on vox?

Thanks and congratulation!

Nico

Mic = MXL V69 Tube
Vox = 1176 plugin (x2) to smooth it out; Logic's channel eq to take out the rumble and tweak the high end so it cuts through; and some sends to some of Logic's Space Designer plates with a splash of delay here and there.

--> there are also two duplicates of the track during the choruses; one pitched up and one pitched down with some slight delay and panned hard left / right to give it some more depth/spread

[Nicosour]

Very good! Nice track!

Thanks!

Nico

[jaysunice]

anyone else?

[csiking]

Hey!

Lead vox seems a little to out front - I would drop it back a smidge. Cymbals seem to siblant - try messing with them a bit to not make them so splatter sounding (could be the mp3 but I don't think it would trash it that much). Bass is an issue seems light in the mix and undefined...and some of the other instruments sound disconnected in the over all mix.

Guitar before end is quite bright and thin almost obnoxious sounding.

Keep messing with it and be sure to listen to it on every thing you can!

[jaysunice]

Does anyone think there are issues with the Vox and Snare Reverbs?

Also any issues with the tone of the initial, rhythm, guitar?

[methmetal]

It sounds pretty good to me. The vocals seem to be a few db too loud. Also, there is an issue with the bass. I would try to eq it some more. I would not recomend too much compression for the bass. The lead at the end of the tunes is a little shrill; maybe cut a tiny bit of top end from that.

All in all, I think you did a nice job considering your age and gear. Keep up the good work....peace.

[xmostynx]

your pitch shifts are very noticable..

and your rythem guitars don't have enough bite and crunch to them.
you would find your bass to sit easier, if you got rid of all the mud those rythem guitars are making down there.

i think you need to pull some bottom on that snare- your verb overtakes the actual air exploding in the snare. i would want in this song the snare to sound like the drummer was going through the snare every hit...BANG BANG..idk if your getting any of this

when the band kicks into the chorus the mix goes no-where-

you can pull a very commercial sound out of what i'm hearing-

close to the end your snare verb doesn't fit..

there you go dude- i just listened through my imac in my studio.

ahh dude all that mud on your guitars is the flanger...man i was like...wtf is going on and i kept reading!!

if your stuck with the flanger, then put it on 1 guitar- or have one guitar with no effect very crunchy in your face over that flanger...that flanger is taking over your mix man!


hey my .02

[Ol' Betsey]

Originally Posted by jaysunice

Does anyone think there are issues with the Vox and Snare Reverbs?

Also any issues with the tone of the initial, rhythm, guitar?

Yeah, the first thing that really jumped out (on my lappy speakers) was the effect levels (and most likely the overall level too) of the vocals in chorus.

Oh and the Hi Hat sounds a bit cranky to me with a strange relationship between it and the snare.

You're certainly heading down the right track though so keep up the good work and keep on learnin'.

R.

[Jax]

Originally Posted by jaysunice

Attachment 32771
The mix itself has a pseudo master on the bus -- I left about 3 dB of headroom for the 1176 to act as a bus compressor and then used the precision limiter to get some more dB and catch any overs. I still, however, do not feel it has that "record-ready" feel; aka I think my RMS levels could be higher?

I don't have anything to add to what's been said, but if this material will be sent to a mastering engineer, it would probably be best to leave higher RMS levels up to the ME.

Ok, one other thing to add. For much of the song, the guitars sound too hard panned, leaving too much gap in the center. I'd at least spread them from the edges with a delay, somethin' like L<100 x 85, R>100 x 82.

[jaysunice]

Originally Posted by xmostynx

your pitch shifts are very noticable...

...when the band kicks into the chorus the mix goes no-where-

you can pull a very commercial sound out of what i'm hearing-

1. The only pitch shifting is on the vox in the chorus to give it some spread and depth (and after reading the other comments I'll be bringing those down); hope you just meant there

2. I definitely feel you about the "non-exploding" chorus thing...but I've been struggling as to how to make that "magic" happen -- any ideas
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To clear up some other comments: to my knowledge, this will NOT be going to a ME, and I will be doing my best to get the RMS levels up myself

Finally, the snare and hi-hat relationship problem has to do with a combination of problems:

- the drummer not closing his hats enough
- being forced to replace the snare
- having to kill the original snare in the OH w/ a nearly 5K high-pass

* Thank you all for your comments and please keep them coming *

[xmostynx]

you can make the chorus explode a few ways..

you can introduce another guitar track...that would really pick things up.

you can mess around with panning guitars as well. this is where 'production' and engineering kinda cross..its always good to have someone who has an ear for song structure listen to your mixes...exp. when the band is there.

as far as snare/hat relationship... if your gonna record music, and mix music for fun or for a living- your excuse can't be the player.

your job is to make things sound good- even if the player sucks- if you sign onto a project you have to remember your name is going to be on that project.

i had a kid who drummed and it sounded like he kept dropping his sticks! but he was really missing the drum heads on his rolls and hitting the rims...(what a nightmare!) so i had to Beat detect all of his drums, throw him and his band on some kind of grid and then sound replace his drum hits.

a nightmare dude for sure- but when the kid heard the song- he was blown away..(wow i sound so good!)


don't get me wrong you can only take 'ok' players so far.
and it sounds like your just about as far as you can take this mix, without getting into the actual structure of the writing.

i think your hat is just thin and loud..
i think your snare sounds pretty good except the reverb issues i stated before..

you can also mess around with eq and maybe nix the flange on the chorus or vice versa..

but the biggest thing you can do! is have fun- and learn. I'm just as young as you- and haven't put a hit record out yet, so this is all constructive

peace man good luck!

atleast your mixing rock bands i'm mixing/producing orientation videos!!!

[jaysunice]

Thanks Patrick for the follow up.

Another issue I've had is my concern for the toms -- there are few fills involving them, but I know they're not right. I'm going to try bringing down the levels but I fear they may lose their impact. Also is the panning of the toms a lil too distracting or is just the fact they're a little loud?

Any one got any tips for handling them?

[jeremynothman]

another vote on getting rid of the flanger (at least reducing the flange's level in the mix)

also agree that the hats are a little removed from the mix, maybe have a little less around the 5-8KHz range.
if you really have done a high pass at 5KHz to try get rid of the snare, have you tried using a different snare sample that is tuned to the same note as the original snare.

overall i find it to be EQd with too little low mid, the bass should really "growl" a little more to me - it sounds cool to me with my headphones, where i can hear subs well, but out of my speakers, that cutoff pretty early (pretty steep cut lower than 80Hz) there is really very little to be heard at all. i'd say that maybe it would be better to sit the bass's main frequencies higher, more around 250-500Hz, with less subs/imitation subs (as added by the subbass plug), maybe donate a little of those subs to the kick, but ONLY a little

a few notes - the pickscrape at 1:15 ends very suddenly, maybe open a delay envelope to let that hold on a little more

just my 2c, and all to be taken with a grain of salt, as im even younger than you, and with far worse gear :D

[longplay_studio]

I like your song.