Hello,
i have 2 mastering versions of my song and would like to know opinion of more experienced people in the mastering field. The thing is that one is mastered by using only plugins and other by top end hardware
I like the vocals better in version 1 and the bass better in version 2, but both versions seem to be heavy on the bass in my room. Just my initial thoughts without spending too much time on it.
One is that bit more brighter and a better image it seems with the vocal. There is bit more volume there also. Am guessing thats the outboard, but I have been wrong before.
Honestly, in my opinion they're both missing. On my monitors they're both highly distorted, mostly in the bottom end. It sounds smashed, and with this style of music there's no need for it. Let it breathe or tame the low end before you crush it, or clip it...whatever method you're using. It might help with the sheen of fuzz.
Take this with a grain of salt because I'm not particularly into the style of music here.
The song/mix itself is very modern pop and I don't typically think with a very "everything up front" kind of mix like this you will hear as great an impact from the outboard.
That said the first master, however it was done, seems to have a more 3D like quality to it. The second one in comparison feels veiled and somewhat muddy. There is nothing I prefer about the 2nd master. I hope for you its the more inexpensive option if there is one
Honestly again follow your own path but even if the first one is better sounding, the style of mix itself being a very present one probably does not need the quality of the first master. I guess what I'm saying is that on this style of arrangement and mix the difference between these is not likely to be significant in the long run, but I certainly notice it in the comparison and it is significant to me and my picky ears.
Thank you so much for your suggestions, it's really helpfull for me. Please can you listen to one more track of mine. The same situation. One mastering is made at a professional mastering studio and one is made by me.
As the previous track, the "mastering 1" version is made by me using plugins
Quote:
Honestly, in my opinion they're both missing. On my monitors they're both highly distorted, mostly in the bottom end. It sounds smashed, and with this style of music there's no need for it. Let it breathe or tame the low end before you crush it, or clip it...whatever method you're using. It might help with the sheen of fuzz.
Engmix, i had actually the same feeling and have no idea what is the cause. Can you listen to the other track if there is a same problem? Im really new in this field, i just decided to mix my own album and im happy for any advice as in my country is pretty hard to find a good engineer to help me. Also my ears cannot hear it objectively as i have been listening the songs like thousand of times.. also would like to know how vocals sound to you.. sorry for many questions and thank you again
I felt that the first version in each of the sets sounded best.
I didn't like the fade-outs in either of the second versions (they seem too rushed in my opinion).
I find it hard to judge the quality of either master fairly without hearing the raw unmastered mix file. I'm hearing some distortion in all versions here and there (it stands out the most for me in the vocals and bass).
Anyhow, I liked the tonality of each of the first versions better. I sense that many of of the tracks in the original mix were heavily compressed? If you have the option of going back to your original mix, and going for a more dynamic sound, I think you'll be rewarded in the end with a much more dynamic master.
it seems like there should be 6 db more dynamics and less compression.
remember this is a music master, not a radio commercial so please easy on the comp.
Please create a listening experience, and don't shove the track down the listeners neck.
all of the anomalies of overbass ect is the offset in balance in the mix and is exponentially amplifies when the music is compressed more. this should give you a hint that you should back off the compressor
because you want a "Dean Martin" or "Nat King Cole" (on record, not the web site version) style track and not like "Pantera's Far from Driven"
you should have to really turn up the volume to get the noise floor and not the way you have it.
__________________
In live sound, we make the band one with the environment, In recording, we define the environment in which the vision of the song is recorded.
It's a pleasure. Wow - I _really_ like the original version of this song better than either of the masters. I think it's worth revisiting the mastering. Go for less limiting. Maybe some EQ for the lowest octave but I'd avoid broad compression or limiting. There is already enough compression in the mix itself. If you do any limiting I wouldn't do more than 1 or 2 dB.
I haven't taken a lot of time to do a detailed analysis so there may be other areas to improve. I'm just sharing my first reaction. (My absolute first reaction was "Wow! Much better").
Thank you so much for your suggestions, it's really helpfull for me. Please can you listen to one more track of mine. The same situation. One mastering is made at a professional mastering studio and one is made by me.
As the previous track, the "mastering 1" version is made by me using plugins
Engmix, i had actually the same feeling and have no idea what is the cause. Can you listen to the other track if there is a same problem? Im really new in this field, i just decided to mix my own album and im happy for any advice as in my country is pretty hard to find a good engineer to help me. Also my ears cannot hear it objectively as i have been listening the songs like thousand of times.. also would like to know how vocals sound to you.. sorry for many questions and thank you again
I'm not at my studio anymore for the evening, but i remember the distortion really kicking in the chorus, obviously the most dense part of the production and perhaps when the bass really kicked in. I do also remember the bass being quite uneven at certain frequencies, but this is not uncommon. You can tame some of this stuff in mastering, but sometimes at the demise of the kick or snare or both. Best to automate an eq while in the mix. If i had to guess, i really think you're suffering from a buildup of low freqs that's hammering a compressor or limiter or both. Out of curiosity how many dB of gain reduction are you seeing on your limiter? Also, are you clipping pre limiter? And by the way, it's sometimes cool to slam the individual tracks with compression, it's a good way to get that planted sound, i do it often, but i also automate a lot of level changes to get back dynamics. With that said, i don't think that's your problem regarding what i'm hearing.
Why don't you reveal your mastering chain and perhaps that will reveal where that fuzz is coming from. Also, what is your limiters ceiling set to? One last thing, what dithering are you using?
Edit: Also, some plugins don't clip as well as others. It all might be as simple as your gain staging.
I'm not at my studio anymore for the evening, but i remember the distortion really kicking in the chorus, obviously the most dense part of the production and perhaps when the bass really kicked in. I do also remember the bass being quite uneven at certain frequencies, but this is not uncommon. You can tame some of this stuff in mastering, but sometimes at the demise of the kick or snare or both. Best to automate an eq while in the mix. If i had to guess, i really think you're suffering from a buildup of low freqs that's hammering a compressor or limiter or both. Out of curiosity how many dB of gain reduction are you seeing on your limiter? Also, are you clipping pre limiter? And by the way, it's sometimes cool to slam the individual tracks with compression, it's a good way to get that planted sound, i do it often, but i also automate a lot of level changes to get back dynamics. With that said, i don't think that's your problem regarding what i'm hearing.
Why don't you reveal your mastering chain and perhaps that will reveal where that fuzz is coming from. Also, what is your limiters ceiling set to? One last thing, what dithering are you using?
Edit: Also, some plugins don't clip as well as others. It all might be as simple as your gain staging.
well, first of all, thank you so much for your advices. The thing is that first when I made my mix I even didnt think about doing masterin by myself thats why I sent my mix to the "professional" mastering studio (they say one of the best in my country) and the result was very dissapointed to me. So after that what I did was that i just add a mastering plugin with preset on the master bus in my DAW. Settings of the plugin is only bass, middle, trebles and compression I only wanted to hear difference between the expensive mastering made by "professionals" and my home mastering... it was really surprising for me to hear the result...
And as the distorting, i noticed that many contemporary records are sounding very loudly but cleanly at the same time without distortion so there must be problem in my mix i guess... but as I said im really an amateur in mixing but cant efford mixing engineers and also trust my ears so im trying to do my best and really really appreciate any help from more experienced engineers...
And is there any distorting in the second track? If you listen to unmastered version - It sounds good on my monitors -
The thing is that first when I made my mix I even didnt think about doing masterin by myself thats why I sent my mix to the "professional" mastering studio (they say one of the best in my country) and the result was very dissapointed to me. So after that what I did was that i just add a mastering plugin with preset on the master bus in my DAW.
I think you did a great job with the plugin/s as far as coming close to what the mastering engineer did. Great job in that regard !
Please don't give up on your Mastering Engineer, though. I suggest giving them another chance at this. Let them know that you would like to preserve (at a minimum) or enhance (even better!) the musicality of your mix. Please let him or her know that the loudness isn't a priority for you.
I think the ME will be very happy to hear that, because Mastering Engineers add the most value by enhancing musicality. If they try again, and you're still not happy with the results, then I suggest shopping around.
... your mix should sound as good, if not better, after mastering from a musical perspective. Don't give up.
Location: underneath the dank, cobbled streets of Landon Taaaan'
Posts: 1,861
I hate trying to judge anything technical from soundcloud streams, but here goes...
Just going on a really quick needle drop listen.
First track I preferred your master. Theirs is a bit more subtle, somewhere inbetween both could be cool.
Second track I preferred the pro master.
Dynamically I prefer the original mix on the second track, although there was something nice brought out in the EQ on the pro master that worked well.
Ideally - I would say that if the mastering engineer backed off a little bit and went for somewhere in between the original mix and whatever settings they used - could be really sweet.
I haven't read any of the other replies, but I don't think either of them quite hit the mark. You need deessing to control some sibilance. That said, I think I like #2 a little better and I feel there's some harshness to #1.
I did catch something about distortion. Modern masters ARE distorted, often brutally distorted, but pop/rock songs tend to not suffer as much, simply because people are used to them sounding distorted. This is more like folk music, where clean, clean, clean is the name of the game and distortion is not as easily tolerated.
Wrong thing to post your work here to see what advice Me's 'll give you.
Since the brain catch the frequencies and everyone think different it's not a perfect mastering.
Try some other ME's with a free sample, I do that to some clients they know my work before, since maybe is a different style.
Thank you guys a lot.. now im working on fixing of my mix.
Quote:
Wrong thing to post your work here to see what advice Me's 'll give you.
Since the brain catch the frequencies and everyone think different it's not a perfect mastering.
Try some other ME's with a free sample, I do that to some clients they know my work before, since maybe is a different style.
thats why i posted my song here.. If i feel the mastering is ok I wouldnt post here... but now I feel more that the main problem is coming from my mix
I like bright vocals but whenever i boost trebles then sibilants go up too. so how to make bright vox without harshing sibilants?
I like bright vocals but whenever i boost trebles then sibilants go up too. so how to make bright vox without harshing sibilants?
Hi, go with "broad strokes" if you can. Start with a very low slope shelf, with a turnover freq of 1 to 2kHz and very fine adjustments, .5, 1dB to start. That can make a big difference in clarity without adding harshness.
If siblance becomes an issue, a dedicated de-esser or you can "make one" by sidechaining a comp or using one band of a multiband comp with all other bands on bypass.
I hate trying to judge anything technical from soundcloud streams, but here goes...
Exactly!
Comments are being made based on an MP3 file and streaming?
Welcome to 2012 and beyond.
For accurate analysis should I listen through the $10 Chinese computer speakers in my office? Or should it be monitored through the B&W 803's driven by my McIntosh 2205/C-32 in a decent environment?
A good ME will ultimately use both for translation, but to be accurate at the source, a good .wav file would really help.
Hi, go with "broad strokes" if you can. Start with a very low slope shelf, with a turnover freq of 1 to 2kHz and very fine adjustments, .5, 1dB to start. That can make a big difference in clarity without adding harshness.
If siblance becomes an issue, a dedicated de-esser or you can "make one" by sidechaining a comp or using one band of a multiband comp with all other bands on bypass.
Cheers!
Rob
Thnx Rob, I tried to use multiband comp for vox
well, this is new mix version of the first track. It is just a plain mix without any mastering. Looking forward to hear your suggestions
Absolutely a pleasure. This is absolutely a beautiful mix . It's a joy to listen to. The work you've done with those acoustic guitars is really great. There's a lot of depth here (particularly with the acoustic guitars).
What did you track the vocals with? I think they sound fine but I am hearing some saturation in louder sections. I wonder if it's either the preamp used during recording, or perhaps console/preamp/tube emulation? It's absolutely not a concern if that's the sound/feel you were going for. If by chance it's emulation, I'd recommend trying a mix with it off the track completely to open up the sound of the vocals just a bit (the saturation can flatten things a little, and you lose definition, too). If it's already in the recording itself, no worries at all (again, it's minor).
EDIT: My ears may have been tricking me there. I thought I was hearing the saturation around 1:18 or therabouts but on another listen I think it may just be the electric guitar that's there (maybe it's just the blend of the vocal with the guitar at that part - maybe try either a slight 0.5-1dB boost to the vocal in the louder sections, or lowering the e-guitar a bit to help compensate for that and bring the vocal a bit further forward?).
Some of the upper bass notes are getting lost just a little in parts. If you already have some compression on the bass, maybe try a slower attack (110 to 220ms), medium release 2:1 on them just to let the attack come through relatively untouched (emphasize that "thump... thump thump" sound of the bass), while adding just a bit of sustain to the release. Doing this to bring out that attack transient just a bit (might only take a few dB) can make a lot of difference in the clarity/articulation of the bass in your mix while that little bit of compression can help control mud.
Wow though, sincerely excellent work once again. These mixes are beautiful !
Absolutely a pleasure. This is absolutely a beautiful mix . It's a joy to listen to. The work you've done with those acoustic guitars is really great. There's a lot of depth here (particularly with the acoustic guitars).
What did you track the vocals with? I think they sound fine but I am hearing some saturation in louder sections. I wonder if it's either the preamp used during recording, or perhaps console/preamp/tube emulation? It's absolutely not a concern if that's the sound/feel you were going for. If by chance it's emulation, I'd recommend trying a mix with it off the track completely to open up the sound of the vocals just a bit (the saturation can flatten things a little, and you lose definition, too). If it's already in the recording itself, no worries at all (again, it's minor).
EDIT: My ears may have been tricking me there. I thought I was hearing the saturation around 1:18 or therabouts but on another listen I think it may just be the electric guitar that's there (maybe it's just the blend of the vocal with the guitar at that part).
Some of the upper bass notes are getting lost just a little in parts. If you already have some compression on the bass, maybe try a slower attack (110 to 220ms), medium release 2:1 on them just to let the attack come through relatively untouched (emphasize that "thump... thump thump" sound of the bass), while adding just a bit of sustain to the release. Doing this to bring out that attack transient just a bit (might only take a few dB) can make a lot of difference in the clarity/articulation of the bass in your mix while that little bit of compression can help control mud.
Wow though, sincerely excellent work once again. These mixes are beautiful !
Rob
Thank you Rob again and again. I'm was always looking for someone to help me and give me some advices
As the vocal. I tracked the vocal a year ago using Neumann TLM 193 and MPA gold preamp. I think it is a preamp saturation. I didnt like the vocal sound and wanted to re-dub the song once more with better mike but couldnt sing with the same energy so thats why I keep it.. Im gonna check the mix again and will go through all your advices
My pleasure, anytime ! Thanks again for sharing. Yes I totally understand about the vocal track. Sometimes it's better to keep it when the performance feels right. The saturation isn't a serious issue for me.
New Reply 
Facebook
Twitter
LinkedIn
!
! 
