20th July 2012
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#1 | | Gear Head
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 54
Thread Starter | need mix advice (rock)
Hi, i'm hoping for some expert advice from you please. Style is rock/blues.
My band just came out of the studio, it's our first recordings together and we are happy generally but know the mix is not right. I am looking for advice on areas to tweak for greater presence overall, especally guitars. I do have Samplitude Silver and Ableton Live 7, but no mixing desk or high end equipment and no mixing experience.
We have the original recordings not just the mixdown so can do some work on it ourselves: http://sdrv.ms/NF9AQQ
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EDIT: new version is here: http://sdrv.ms/NTCuOI
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Last edited by bluemanontelly; 1st August 2012 at 09:51 AM..
Reason: added new audio clip
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20th July 2012
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#2 | | Gear addict
Joined: Mar 2009 Location: Elizabeth, NJ
Posts: 476
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It doesn't sound so bad. The organ and guitar parts get distracting at certain points and the drums sound a little weird.
If you have no mixing experience you should probably get someone with mixing experience to mix it for you, with you in the room so you can learn a little.
How long did the guy/gal at the studio spend mixing this stuff? Was there a problem working with that engineer that left you wanting to do this on your own?
Last edited by decocco; 20th July 2012 at 04:16 PM..
Reason: clarity
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21st July 2012
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#3 | | Gear interested
Joined: Jul 2012 Location: memphis, tn
Posts: 6
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i like the song a lot
drums are a bit loud
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21st July 2012
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#4 | | Gear Head
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 54
Thread Starter |
thanks for commenting, @ decocco: we spent only 4 hours on mixing for 8 songs. So it was a bit of a hurry, a cost thing as it was by the hour. I agree it would be better to get a professional to make it right, but I am just interested to know if anyone thinks the mix is good enough to maybe just tweak a bit or if it should just be started again from scratch.
@ both of you: what would you recommend to make the drums sound better, and is it all drums or just some of them?
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21st July 2012
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#5 | | Gear Head
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 65
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It is really hard to hear on this short example but it sounds like the drums are placed in the right corner except for the hihat and it dont sound good - the base is to high in comparance - the guitarrs are to anonymous and the voice rather flat. It should blow me of my stool but it doesnt - new mix - new mastering will probably solve it.
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22nd July 2012
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#6 | | Gear Head
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 54
Thread Starter |
yes, the guitars are too "anonymous" as you aptly put it. The guitar player was disappointed not to be louder in the mix. So earlier this evening our guitarist took it to an experienced guy who will try mixing 2 of the 8 tracks again. If they sound much better we'll pay him to do all of them. I have played around with it and got it sounding better (I think). But we'd like to do it right so paying someone is probably the only real solution.
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25th July 2012
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#7 | | Gear Head
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 54
Thread Starter |
yeah, that did the trick. getting a proper mixing expert in really transformed the tracks. now there aere just a few small things to alter as that was his first take and he is open to our comments.
interestingly, the first thing he said was the drums are badly placed in the mix as eko mentioned. he did a lot of work getting the drums to sit properly.
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26th July 2012
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#8 | | Gear Head
Joined: Oct 2007 Location: Stockholm
Posts: 58
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The music isn't bad but it's a thin mix as mentioned earlier. The bassplaying should kick you in the stomach but it does not.
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26th July 2012
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#9 | | Gear Head
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 65
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Good let us hear the new mix when its ready
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29th July 2012
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#10 | | Gear nut
Joined: Jul 2008 Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 146
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Hi just thought I'd add my comments.
After a brief listen, I think there's good presence and clarity on this mix, although I haven't AB'd it with a reference track so take that with a pinch of salt.
The instrument placement is NOT my cup of tea. The mix feels a little lopsided. The HHat on the right is distracting for my taste and once the lead singer starts, it just doesn't sit right. Possibly the main vocal performance is a little uninspiring and lacks energy/ownership of the song.
My advice?
Remix and spend time on instrument placement.
Get it mastered. That will give it the glue it's missing.
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30th July 2012
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#11 | | Gear Head
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 54
Thread Starter |
it's good to hear different comments, thank you all. the instrument placement has been improved now as mentioned above. I have all the songs back from the mixer except the one I posted a clip of at the start of the thread. so I could either post a different clip or wait to get that song as it would be better for comparing the 2 mixes.
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30th July 2012
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#12 | | Gear Head
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 65
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I think you can upload the new version on the GS-player and still keep your referenceclip as now.
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30th July 2012
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#13 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Dec 2010 Location: Hungary
Posts: 738
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The guitars sound "anonymous" because they are too distant - too much reverb on them. The hi-hat would sound better with some level riding, so certain parts don't jump out so loud compared to other ones. It also has too much midrange "body" to it, at least for my tastes. I would try to make the crash hits just a tad louder than the hi-hat groove.
Generally, it sounds raw and live, which is not a bad thing.
Thank you for posting your mix!
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30th July 2012
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#14 | | Gear nut
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 118
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More important than anyone else's opinions: why are you unhappy with the mix?
Otherwise you're just opening a can of worms which will begin with "lacks clarity" and will end up with "it's a piece of shite".
What bothers you? How would you describe the enhancements you're looking for?
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31st July 2012
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#15 | | Gear Head
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 54
Thread Starter | Quote:
Originally Posted by eko  I think you can upload the new version on the GS-player and still keep your referenceclip as now. | where is the GS player? Song is back from mixer now, will upload when I figure out how
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31st July 2012
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#16 | | Gear Head
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 65
| Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemanontelly where is the GS player? Song is back from mixer now, will upload when I figure out how | Edit the first post in 2 steps.
1. Unclick the old song - save
2 . Edit - browse and upload the new version.
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1st August 2012
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#17 | | Gear Head
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 54
Thread Starter |
I have added new version of the clip to original post.
Note that the guitarist visited the mixer and influenced how he wanted it to sound; I have a small window of opportunity to get some changes made now that i've had a chance to hear it. For me the guitar is a little loud but I am very interested to hear your comments too.
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1st August 2012
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#18 | | Gear Head
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 65
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Much better!
I have no probs with the guitar, the voice is a little to dry I think and is it an organ I hear to the right? According to how it is played you might wanna boost that little more.
Good work Blueman
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1st August 2012
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#19 | | Gear Head
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 54
Thread Starter |
thanks eko, I appreciate that. I want to either cut the guitar or boost the organ, haven't decided yet. but it is a little too quiet I think
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1st August 2012
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#20 | | Gear nut
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 118
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OK, I'll say it again, take it as lighthearted and a piece of advice which will help you become more of a producer and less of a fly-by-numbers mixer.
The way you're asking implies there's something wrong with the mix. You must decide why it feels wrong. I could say something like "more guitars" or "add a cowbell". I could even say "substitute the organ with flugelhorn". I could but that means nothing. Personally I would change the snare. I would include a tuba. But that's me. What matters is what you're trying to achieve. Is it Bryan Adams' Reckless? Is it Nirvana's Lithium?
If you want it to sound a certain way, people can give you advice in order to achieve that. Now, there isn't such a thing as too loud something or too dark whatever. The arrangement and the mix sound is as part of what the song becomes as are the chords you use.
There was a time when Suzanne Vega performed solo vocals with just Mike Visceglia on bass. Suppose Suzanne is asking how to mix that. There's too much bass? What does it means? Boost the vocals or cut the bass?
Decide how you want it to sound. That's the key.
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1st August 2012
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#21 | | Gear Head
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 65
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Rudiger
I think you miss the point IMHO. Blueman gave us a previous mix that sounded illmannered. After advice he has posted a new mix that sound great in comparision (spell?)
And why must a new song sound like another bands songs? That confuses me.
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1st August 2012
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#22 | | Gear nut
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 118
| Quote:
Originally Posted by eko And why must a new song sound like another bands songs? That confuses me. | If doesn't have to sound like anything you ever heard before. That's exactly what I am saying. Therefor, the suggestions in this thread are only interesting if trying to make the mix sound like something you identify with.
You can't make everything big in a mix. When an element becomes bigger, the others become smaller. It's much more interesting knowing what the OP is aiming for. Bigger drums or huge guitars?
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2nd August 2012
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#23 | | Gear Head
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 54
Thread Starter |
Rudiger, I see what you're saying. The thing is, i'm not the mixer and i'm just one member of the band.
The guitar player visited the mixer and asked him to boost the guitars a bit, and in my opinion they are slightly too loud in places (don't forget this is a 1 minute clip of 8 songs we recorded). And I play the organs in the band, so naturally I will ask him to cut back on the guitar a bit to allow more space for the organ in certain places.
But the 2nd mix I posted is much clearer to me, I can hear each instrument and the vocals clearer than I could before. That is a good result for me, and in the end I just want it to sound good, whether that means my parts are quieter or louder.
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2nd August 2012
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#24 | | Gear nut
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 118
| Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemanontelly .
The guitar player visited the mixer and asked him to boost the guitars a bit, and in my opinion they are slightly too loud in places (don't forget this is a 1 minute clip of 8 songs we recorded). And I play the organs in the band, so naturally I will ask him to cut back on the guitar a bit to allow more space for the organ in certain places. | This is typical of bands. That's what I was trying to say: it's very hard to decide what's the focus of the song, if it's explosive or more subtle, what instruments are to be featured and what should stay in the background. My point is that this decision must be made early in the mix. It will be much easier then.
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2nd August 2012
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#25 | | Gear Head
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 54
Thread Starter | Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudiger This is typical of bands. That's what I was trying to say: it's very hard to decide what's the focus of the song, if it's explosive or more subtle, what instruments are to be featured and what should stay in the background. My point is that this decision must be made early in the mix. It will be much easier then. | too late!! thanks for the interesting replies, the whole recording thing has been a good learning experience, only the 2nd time i've been in a studio so naturally there are always things that could have been done better. i'm not so worried about what could have been better, I am convinced the result will be great. Hopefully we will sell a few singles/CDs at gigs and have a good time playing the songs. that's what it's all about
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