Please Review (BFD Drums, MXL vox)

[Harsh]

This is an artist I am producing and co-writing with, his name is Jamin Dunn. This is unmastered and is a working mix.

I used an mxl v69 & 57 into Vintech x73i >Distressor>002>

I programmed the drums with BFD,(I hated BFD until this project, now I love)

Played the Bass direct into the Vintech

Acoustics through cheap joe meek stuff

Mixed with a good friend Brent Hendrich on Nuendo ITB using all UAD1 stuff....

Any suggestions are welcome.

[Harsh]

Finally got this up here. I would appreciate any comments.

[Harsh]

bump

[ez135]

Hello Harsh,

Sounds good ! Nice vocal !

Good song and nice production.

Keep up the good work !

[redtuesday]

Hi,
Your mix to my ears sounds really great! I like the clarity and the grain of the vocal.
What was your signal path and plugs? I'm trying to get that type of clarity for my stuff but I'm falling a little short. I run DP and use a RODE NTK2 through a UA6176 with Waves VOX and UAD Pultec Pro plug. Check out the mixes on my website at
www.redtuesday.com if you would. I would really appreciate some input.
I have grown to love the BFD as well. Pretty incredible what you can get out of the program. We have a Yamaha digital kit that we play/program with. Works very well.

Keep up the great work!!

Brian

[fastlane]

Good stuff, I like the drum sound too, I use Reason Drumkits and now I'm thinking I'll get BFD.

Only one thing I can spot, the snare hits are exactly the same in terms of velocity all the way through the chorus, might try adjusting some of them to help make it feel a little more natural. But in fairness, thats really nitt picking.

Great overall sound and really well done production.
Keep them coming.

What mic and pre did you use for the vocals????
You handled ther sibliance very well, some at which I struggle at. Any tips??

I'll stick up the mix I finished yesterday in MP3 Upload so you can have a listen.

All the best
Steve

[Harsh]

For the vox I shot out a Rode k2 and a much cheaper MXL V69(mogami edition) and thought both sounded great but for the kind of music I do I liked the grain that was in the MXL when pushed hard. So I used the MXL into a Vintech X73i into a very light compression setting on my distressor. On mix down we used RenVox comp heavily and the UAD pultec eq lightly.....

[Harsh]

Originally Posted by fastlane

Good stuff, I like the drum sound too, I use Reason Drumkits and now I'm thinking I'll get BFD.

Only one thing I can spot, the snare hits are exactly the same in terms of velocity all the way through the chorus, might try adjusting some of them to help make it feel a little more natural. But in fairness, thats really nitt picking.

All the best
Steve

Yeah this is a good observation, there are slight differences in each hit velocity wise but for this type of song I didn't want to make it to huge.... Maybe I could have used a little more change between each hit. Overall when any laymen have heard it they all ask "who is the drummer he is awesome" so I agree with you in one sense but, most people just think it's "that sound".........

[xmostynx]

WOW MAN! dude! those drums sound killer-fill me in more on your way of using bfd-
real bass or synth? i'll be back later tonight

[musicalavtech]

Good job...mix and performance. I'm thinking about upgrading from BFD lite to the real version, but I'm still working with Xpand and outboard midi (Roland and Yamaha) units.

[Harsh]

Originally Posted by xmostynx

WOW MAN! dude! those drums sound killer-fill me in more on your way of using bfd-
real bass or synth? i'll be back later tonight

I first program my kick and snare, over and over until it feels as close as I can get to a real drummer, then I track the hats, sometimes vise versa, on a seperate midi track. Then I go on to rack the toms, seperate track, cymbals, etc. then room and overs I bounce them all down to seperate tracks in pro tools, like it was played with a real drummer.....

On mixdown you have to eq and compress like they are real(which they are) compress till you get a "wet" sound if you will. It will sound like it's soaked in compression. Then eq each piece mix to taste. My secret if any is really just concentrating on the feel, some may not like the feel I get, I prefer it. I will quantize using the feel injector 16ths setting at about 30 percent on the timing in the pt quantize section. Then sometimes I go back and do it all over again many times until I like the feel.

[keithl]

Sounds real good...Give yourself a pat on the back...Good mix all around.
What do you use or effect to get that sound behind the vocals around :57?

I hear that around other tunes and would love to know if it's looped or what. It sounds reversed, but I am not sure what the original tone source is.

Again, great job!

Keith

[Harsh]

I actually just reversed a section of the electric guitar and looped it, this piece actually runs completely underneath all the choruses, panning a little to add a sense of energy.

[SRS]

Sounds great, and as a drummer myself, I am very impressed. Only a few indicators here and there that it is not a real drummer. Still trying to put us outta work aren't you! I just heard a couple of tome parts that are humanly un-natural to transition to and the snare sound is too consistent, not velocity, but the actual tone as if the drum were hit in the "exact" same place each time. Very nice song. Sound really good. Great job!

[Harsh]

Originally Posted by SRS

Sounds great, and as a drummer myself, I am very impressed. Only a few indicators here and there that it is not a real drummer. Still trying to put us outta work aren't you! I just heard a couple of tome parts that are humanly un-natural to transition to and the snare sound is too consistent, not velocity, but the actual tone as if the drum were hit in the "exact" same place each time. Very nice song. Sound really good. Great job!

Yeah I hear what your saying...... From a drummers perspective I'm sure this will stand out if they are looking for it.

[norman_nomad]

Excellent mix! Great song as well...

I really dig the bass... I think it carries the energy of the song really well. What kind of bass did you use? Can you share your mix approach?

The drums sound good too... but if I'm going to critique, I think they verge on sounding a little choked... maybe back of the compression just a touch, or lengthen the attack? Just a preference thing I suppose.

Great work!

[SMT]

I really like the way the vocals are produced... Really cool. A lot of presence but not over compressed... sweet! thumbsup
The only thing I kind of missed was lack of overdubs (harmonies) on the choruses... But I guess it´s a matter of taste...

[Harsh]

Originally Posted by norman_nomad

Excellent mix! Great song as well...

I really dig the bass... I think it carries the energy of the song really well. What kind of bass did you use? Can you share your mix approach?

The drums sound good too... but if I'm going to critique, I think they verge on sounding a little choked... maybe back of the compression just a touch, or lengthen the attack? Just a preference thing I suppose.

Great work!

Thanks man, I used a mexican jazz bass I borrowed from a local music store. The magic was that through the Vintech.....actually the distressor probably had more to do with the percieved low end that is there. Used the opto mode with the hp filter on the detector, and slammed it hard. I then did a very scooped eq using the digi rack 3. I think that the drums might be a little choked as well. I am a huge fan of really compressing the drums hard though. It's really a matter of not having the rooms up loud enough in the mix, that's my guess. They kept fighting with the balance of things.

[Harsh]

Originally Posted by SMT

I really like the way the vocals are produced... Really cool. A lot of presence but not over compressed... sweet! thumbsup
The only thing I kind of missed was lack of overdubs (harmonies) on the choruses... But I guess it´s a matter of taste...

Thanks man..... There was quite a bit of harmonies, and overdubs, but they just kept competing with the song when it came to mix time. Sometimes I miss them but really for this mix they were better left out.

I appreciate everyone's comments, keep them coming.

[xmostynx]

really a great sounding tune-to the average person i let my girlfriend listen to it - my girlfriend gave it a

impressed with the drums and bass-great quality recording
whats your space like?

[Harsh]

Originally Posted by xmostynx

really a great sounding tune-to the average person i let my girlfriend listen to it - my girlfriend gave it a

impressed with the drums and bass-great quality recording
whats your space like?

My space is actually embarrasing..... It's why I had to mix over at Brent's place. I am getting ready to move to a bigger space(Lord willing).....

Right now I am basically in a cubby hole. I surround my mic's with auraloex and blankets.....

[C Heat]

This is really good.

- Cool song
- Great vocal
- Some really nice ear candy
- Great arrangement

It's interesting.

I love the reverse guitar parts, and the vocal (double???) at 1.10 to 1.15 - it sounds kinda 'synthetic' ...

I'd buy this.

[Harsh]

Thanks man, that what I like to hear.......

[Chad C]

I really dig the song and production, nice job! I am curious about the electric guitar can you tell us what you used (guitar,amp, mics?)

[slickrick]

Nice work there....great programming on bfd.

I think, once mastered, it'll shine beautifully.

My only $0.02 worth would be to trail that final hit out with some sort of appegiator or reverse guitar that you've used earlier. It just seems to end abruptly?

Anyway, nice.

Cheers,

Rick

[Methlab]

Originally Posted by Harsh

I first program my kick and snare, over and over until it feels as close as I can get to a real drummer, then I track the hats, sometimes vise versa, on a seperate midi track. Then I go on to rack the toms, seperate track, cymbals, etc. then room and overs I bounce them all down to seperate tracks in pro tools, like it was played with a real drummer.....

On mixdown you have to eq and compress like they are real(which they are) compress till you get a "wet" sound if you will. It will sound like it's soaked in compression. Then eq each piece mix to taste. My secret if any is really just concentrating on the feel, some may not like the feel I get, I prefer it. I will quantize using the feel injector 16ths setting at about 30 percent on the timing in the pt quantize section. Then sometimes I go back and do it all over again many times until I like the feel.

I do it the same way with BFD. My only critique is that the snare dissapears a bit when the chorus hits..it's a little small to my ears...what kit did you use? It still sounds great..maybe a little too much compression..but it's a nice mix regardless.

[TREMORS]

I'd buy it, too.
Sounds fantastic.
I could agree about the snare getting a little lost during the chorus, but that's about it.

In fact, its so good, I feel ashamed of myself.
I own BFD and and the XFL pack...
and, i better do some woodshedding.....

[Harsh]

Thanks guys, I agree about the snare..... I will have to see if we can fatten it up a little or something. If not though it's a learning experience..... I've been doing this for many years now and still am no where near where I'd like to be, the label guys heard it and say that it's not wide enough..... the stereo image. Frustrating. I still can't figure out how to really get that wide thing that all the big guys are getting... without all kinds of phasing and mix falling apart. As far as getting BFD to sound right, it took some serious time with the program. I absolutely hated BFD when I first got it and tried to return it to GC to no avail. I then forced myself to get some use out of it.... Now it's getting easier but still takes me a few days for each song I program to get the feel just how I like it. I get up and dance to the song, if I can't move smoothly like water, then I have to go back and feel it out again... it's gets so frustrating..... Anyways good comments are making me think, it's actually sounding good to you guys as well. I've learned alot from the slutz, but more from just doing it over and over and over........(repetition is known to cause insanity)

[vk all day]

Harsh,

This sounds good. It sounds like it was done it a big pro studio which is a good compliment to get. The reason I like this song is because of the one lyric "and it's only right that my first words to you should be a song" that's a really good line. Some parts of this remind me of a goo goo dolls song or whoever sings the song i'm thinking of. I think it goes "if i could....then I would..." Anyway you say this isn't mastered, but really it's louder most music I have on my computer and a hell of a lot louder than anything I have recorded. Did you use the uad plugs on the mix to get these levels or some other software? Let me know, good work, I've been thinking about BFP I'm going to buy it on friday.

Vince.

[gsilbers]

the production quality is definlty awasome. the drums sound are good as well as the rest of the insturments.

i would recormend trying out a different intro. the piano lick sounds like a guitar player played them maybe find another pianist to harmonize or reharm it.
or try out the guitar part under it to be more infront.

the acoustiic guitar (left)needs to be played more "in the pocket" and be more "clear inthe mix" there are 2 acoustics so maybe apnned them more apart.

in the 2nd chorus, (also 3rd)in the staccatto part, maybe try something diferent with the crashes.
maybe just more on 1 every 4 bars. panning it more to the center also.
its the climax so take me there.
a trick if u wanna try is to add a really high violin pad on the coruses
on the root of the song and to be low on the mix so it wont be obvios.



the ending could be stronger. with all insturments working towards the conclusion.

the vocals on the coruses seem to be off the timing a little, but dunno if u wanted that

loved the reversed reverb coruses efxs.

loved the transitions.

the 3rd corus coming from the bridge should defeintly have astronger drum fill to give drive.


i dont think you need the toms around the vercers where their not supoose to be. not while also hitting the snare.
the snare sounds fine. dont adjust velocity or other stuff that only a drummer can tell.

again with the acoustic guitar. try a version without acoustics when the electric come in. it gets lost in the mix.


hope that the sugestions dont bother, the production is really good

another sugestion but for another songs is to help the artist develop more catchy tunes. for this song its ok, but i think with some help the listeners will be able to hum and sing the tune cause theyll remember it more easily.