Hear Bang's Entire BLACKLINE DEBUT ALBUM

[Absolute]

Nice job Steve
Thick punchy mixes

from the clips I like *Why the best. I also think *Repent is kind of different..Nice vocal melody

[hgen]

Great Album guys! Congrats!

Great songs, excellent production, and lots of dynamics too especially for this genre rather than the hyper compressed rubbish that seems to be out there! The mixes are obviously compressed but there is still plenty of dynamics and the tracks are very open sounding.


Was it hard get the mixes right?

[Bang]

yeah it was really hard actually. then my band told me to just "mix the f#cking tracks and leave them alone" so I tried that technique and it worked. Producing your own material can get a bit stressful. But I wouldn't have it any other way for this debut. I doubt I'll produce any more of our albums, but it was good to get this first one off my chest. Thanks again to the cats who are supporting us by buying the album.

[opentune]

Cool stuff! Very good mixing job!
Should you guys ever need a rhythm guitar player for touring...
...i´d do the job...

Keep up the good work!

[davehall6162]

What sample rate do you use in your projects bang? I remember you saying one time that you stay at 44.1. I can never hear a difference when recording or mixing down, but the big cats say its in the processing of the plugs that you will hear the slight extra sweetness. If using the analog domain only for summing and doing most processing itb they must be running some power house computers.

[Bang]

Hi Dave, I always stay at 44.1khz. When I get a job that at higher sample rate I'll usually transfer it to 44.1 using the voxengo src converter to reduce file size. I care very little about high sample rates. A good plugin should sound fine at 44.1 imo. I can say the plugins I use which is Waves Voxengo URS and UAD, I've never had a problem.

Open, thanks for the offer!

[username]

hey Bang.. would you be able to give us an idea of the tracking of this album?... would be great.. especialy signal chains and sources used..

[Bang]

Given that much of this album was recorded at different times you might have to be more song specific. I can say I like the Trident S 20 mic pre a lot. Also use Sytek and Neve stuff as well. If you have a more detailed question about a specific instrument(s) in a song, I'll give you the scoop if I can remember it.

[Jason Poulin]

Originally Posted by Bang

Michael, I'm sure that Verona is gorgeous sounding, but like you said, I did pretty well with the Neotek, this board rocks. Thanks for the support and I'm glad you like the album.

Jason, tell your pop I said thanks for the purchase and I hope he digs it. Sales are going well, but tomorrow night starts the live shows (if you're in LA we better see you at THE JOINT on Pico at 8:30PM) so hopefully things will pick up even more.

Man, you won't see me there!


I'm in Canada dude.


Good luck with the shows!


Jason

[Bang]

well then I guess we'll have to come up to Canada then. how's your dad liking the album?

[Blind]

Hi Bang!

Like everyone else i really dig the disc , nice shit!

I want to buy your disc and i was hitting the buy it now button , with international shipping --> $20! (that's about 16 Euros in Germany)

You know what? Here in Germany you go to a music store and buy a new album for about 19 Euros. (New Red Hot Chili Peppers for example)
At amazon.com you can buy the disc for 12 bucks , thats about , well 9 Euro or something... hardcore isn't it?

I really think about spending a year in the USA ... Germany pisses me off ^^

Blind

PS: Don't worry i'll push the button

[Bang]

Thanks man, you'll be glad to know that international shipping is now 5 bucks. We'll also be on itunes soon.

Quick question to anyone who feels like answering.. to help me out with presskits

From the mp3s.. what are the two best SOUNDING mixes?

whats your two favorite songs?

[Blind]

Best sounding & (my) favorites: Armageddon Soul and Run

[pearlmusic]

Hey Steven,

So it's finally out and I just heard about it here. I just ordered one from your site and will get back to you with my review. Congratulations again.

RZ

[Bang]

much of the great sound is thanks to your tweaks on the Neotek.. for anyone who wants to hear some unique and original sounding music, go to www.pearlmusic.net and pick up Richard's new disc at www.richardzeier.com , you'll thank me later.

[davehall6162]

Originally Posted by Bang

Quick question to anyone who feels like answering.. to help me out with presskits

From the mp3s.. what are the two best SOUNDING mixes?

whats your two favorite songs?

Best Sounding:

OPEN: not much going on in the verse yet still sounds huge. Possibly the best rock vocal mix/sound ive heard. Ever.
ARMAGEDDON SOUL: So punchy its like doin rounds with Tyson ever time i listen.

Favorite Songs:

THROUGH IT
OPEN

[pearlmusic]

Hey Steven,

Thanks for the plug. Just one minor correction. My studio site is www.pearlmusic.net (not .com). My music site is actually www.richardzeier.com where the CD is available. Thanks again.

RZ

[Bang]

Originally Posted by davehall6162

Best Sounding:

OPEN: not much going on in the verse yet still sounds huge. Possibly the best rock vocal mix/sound ive heard. Ever.
ARMAGEDDON SOUL: So punchy its like doin rounds with Tyson ever time i listen.

Favorite Songs:

THROUGH IT
OPEN

awesome, I'll definitely include them in my audio presskit. Richard, I'm editing my prior post with the correct info.

[fonman]

Hey Bang,
Really awesome work. I can't beleive how much volume, fullness, and clarity you have obtained without making the songs sound lifeless, muddy or harsh. Everything sounds totally pro, and fresh. Whenever I shoot for such competetive volumes, my mixes go to hell quick. I would really love to hear some tips on your eq, compression/limiting techniques for all the instruments and vocals at the various stages of production. What evils to watch out for, etc.
Your mixes are proof that competetive volumes can be obtained without sounding crushed to death.
All that aside though, fantastic job. You're an inspiration.

[Bang]

Originally Posted by fonman

Hey Bang,
Really awesome work. I can't beleive how much volume, fullness, and clarity you have obtained without making the songs sound lifeless, muddy or harsh. Everything sounds totally pro, and fresh. Whenever I shoot for such competetive volumes, my mixes go to hell quick. I would really love to hear some tips on your eq, compression/limiting techniques for all the instruments and vocals at the various stages of production. What evils to watch out for, etc.
Your mixes are proof that competetive volumes can be obtained without sounding crushed to death.
All that aside though, fantastic job. You're an inspiration.

I like to compress individual instruments mostly. I'll chain two compressors on the vocals. I'll compress the bass pretty hard. Room mics. Overheads. I usually leave guitars alone and will only add midrange and subtract sublows. Maybe a tad of compression on snare and quite a bit of eq. Sometimes if I have to boost too much high end on a snare, I'll put a gate on it but set the gate so that it only attenuates the volume and doesn't mute it out between hits which sounds too shot gun too my ears. I don't use any peak limiting. For the overall mix I'll hit an RMS 755 (which I sell and won't hide that fact) and do about 4:1 attack 10 dual release and smack 2db on the mix.

For mastering I'll put some light overall eq on the mix, maybe a db of top and bottom, hit the RMS again at 2:1 barely moving the meter, and then I'll load it into the A/D pretty hard with a peak limiter ONLY used for ceiling, no threshold. Hope this helps.

[fonman]

Thanks Steve. Thats very nice of you to give up some of your "goods".
After digesting your tips, I suspect that I'm probably not taking enough time getting it right at the source. Because once I get into the compression stages, it reveals all the weaknesses of the past stage.
You've shown good craftsmenship in your work, and thats something to be proud of. All the better that you are un-selfish with your knowledge towards others. Thanks again.

[Bang]

not a problem brother.. I will never understand why in this particular industry some people like to keep their techniques a secret, as if this art is done by technique only... its using techniques along with your ears that makes a mix. Anyway, glad you all dig the stuff,

[Bang]

bringing this back to get some opinions to any industry minded folks...

As I've been listening to our debut album over the last two months, I wonder if redoing some of the guitars such as Armageddon Soul, with less "metal saturation" and something more organic but still with drive... think Audioslave, Foo Fighters... would it make the music a bit more "accessible" to the mainstream? I'm just thinking that when some of the songs kick in, they are very HARD and if you didn't know that I was going to start singing, you'd almost think that it was going to be a screamer band or something more hardcore...

So any comments or opinions? I wouldn't do it to all songs, but some seem like they would benefit from slightly less fizzy metal guitars, but instead a nice overdrive with some good gain ala JCM 800...

[blaugruen7]

my humble opinion:

a big marketing budget would change the "accessibility to mainstream"
not some slighty altered sound of the guitars.

when it feels good to you, it is good.

[Bang]

Originally Posted by blaugruen7

my humble opinion:

a big marketing budget would change the "accessibility to mainstream"
not some slighty altered sound of the guitars.

when it feels good to you, it is good.

I completely agree that a big marketing budget can push any music... the current emo punky trend being a great example (although even in LA people are getting sick of it... I mean its almost like someone cloned the same whiny vocalist... but thats just me)..

But the thing is, having a harder metal like guitar tone makes our songs a bit less accessible to some music fans out there. I do love the album and I a lot of the bands I've been producing have asked to get that tone... but then again I produce a lot of really hardcore bands!

I don't want to turn all the guitars into clean and pretty things, I just want a little more toney midrange and a bit less fizzy saturation so you think more "hard rock" and less "metal". I'd love to hear what you guys think...

[eyesore]

Originally Posted by Bang

I completely agree that a big marketing budget can push any music... the current emo punky trend being a great example (although even in LA people are getting sick of it... I mean its almost like someone cloned the same whiny vocalist... but thats just me)..

But the thing is, having a harder metal like guitar tone makes our songs a bit less accessible to some music fans out there. I do love the album and I a lot of the bands I've been producing have asked to get that tone... but then again I produce a lot of really hardcore bands!

I don't want to turn all the guitars into clean and pretty things, I just want a little more toney midrange and a bit less fizzy saturation so you think more "hard rock" and less "metal". I'd love to hear what you guys think...

IMHO, I don't think Blackline will ever become mainstream because the material simply sounds dated. You are about 15 years too late. ...unless there are more people than I realize looking for a new Soundgarden - after all, some trends DO experience a short resurgence from time to time.

As far as the guitars:

1. less metal? NO, the metal sound is pretty popular right now, though neither I nor anyone I have shown your stuff to gets that vibe from it. A young drummer friend of mine was diappointed when I played "Repent" for him way back, as something in that old thread made me think it was supposed to be a metal type song, so I showed him.
2. easier to follow in the mix and actually hear? YES, maybe this is what you are actually trying to describe. Right now, except in the instrumental sections, they seem to be just 'there', and more a part of the texture filling out the song rather than an individual part the listener can follow.
3. less fizzy? MAYBE, I believe this term means you don't have the top end right(like rolling some off). I don't believe good metal guitars should sound fizzy in the mix. If this is what you hear, address it.
4. JCM 800? NO, keep the mesa-based sound, just make it work better in the mix once the vocals are there, if it bothers you. As I said, the instrumental sections seem to work well.

Actually, I think genre classification is stupid. The poster who said to make it sound like you like is correct. Then, as that poster said, you just have to convince everyone else that they like it too.

Good luck. I honestly believe that you have your work cut out for you trying to promote that band in this day.

[Bang]

Eyesore thanks for the comments. However, I agree and disagree with some of your thoughts.

While some of our material sounds somewhat dated, not all of it does. I think Armageddon Soul and a few others can mesh more with today's sound, especially with bands like Nickelback and Shinedown and Seether and Tool selling lots of records. Other songs date back to more of a late 90s early 2000s sound ala Creed, little bit Sevendust, and the first Audioslave album... and one or two do the SoundGarden thing. A lot of the songs were written back in the late 90s early 2000s, it took years to finally get this album out. And i never intended on it being metal, and I think some songs are stuck near that zone where they should not be. For instance, I think Armageddon Soul guitars just sound too much like a metal sound, they need a more organic JCM 800 sound.

There is obviously a push for this Panic At the Disco/Fallout Boy kind of thing but to my ears its not something that can realistically have longevity and already people are jumping on the "stop whining" bandwagon. Warped Tour I know is way down from last year. And we get so much feedback talking about how refreshing our sound is within all the whiny emo stuff.

Creed, Nickelback, SoundGarden... these bands have proven to sell big in stores and in concert sales. With the way the industry is now, if Blackline can prove that this sound still has a market, then I'd say our chances are good, assuming we can get the markets. Doing things like making the music more mainstream accessible by taming the more metal aspects of some songs may help. And let us not deny the trend of having music of yesteryear (again I'm not saying that I think all of our material is like this) pop back up the charts as the new "it" thing. A few years ago it was late 70s hipster stuff like the Strokes, then dove into the new wave 80s thing with the Killers and Killers Clones.. Avenged Sevenfold with both 80s hairband and 90s grunge rock influences...who is to say that there couldn't be a late 90s rock revolution, especially if bands like Blackline can prove that it still sells. And its selling for us and the feedback is incredible... we're doing almost 300 new myspace friends a day and lots of online sales. But I still don't think the whole album is 90s sounding... I couldn't picture Armageddon Soul back then...

Either way, I have written some new more "current sounding" stuff to possibley put out on the next shipment of albums, I'll post some mp3s because I'm curious as to your opinions eyesore (and whoever else wants to chime in). Also, can you describe some of the current bands and sounds you consider mainstream, I'm curious.

[roxxon]

Well done!
Nice mix for that style of music!
Very cool guitar sounds!
Good band, pretty darn tight!

[eyesore]

Originally Posted by Bang

Eyesore thanks for the comments. However, I agree and disagree with some of your thoughts.

While some of our material sounds somewhat dated, not all of it does. I think Armageddon Soul and a few others can mesh more with today's sound, especially with bands like Nickelback and Shinedown and Seether and Tool selling lots of records. Other songs date back to more of a late 90s early 2000s sound ala Creed, little bit Sevendust, and the first Audioslave album... and one or two do the SoundGarden thing. A lot of the songs were written back in the late 90s
early 2000s, it took years to finally get this album out. And i never intended on it being metal, and I think some songs are stuck near that zone where they should not be. For instance, I think Armageddon Soul guitars just sound too much like a metal sound, they need a more organic JCM 800 sound.

There is obviously a push for this Panic At the Disco/Fallout Boy kind of thing but to my ears its not something that can realistically have longevity and already people are jumping on the "stop whining" bandwagon. Warped Tour I know is way down from last year. And we get so much feedback talking about how refreshing our sound is within all the whiny emo stuff.

Creed, Nickelback, SoundGarden... these bands have proven to sell big in stores and in concert sales. With the way the industry is now, if Blackline can prove that this sound still has a market, then I'd say our chances are good, assuming we can get the markets. Doing things like making the music more mainstream accessible by taming the more metal aspects of some songs may help. And let us not deny the trend of having music of yesteryear (again I'm not saying that I think all of our material is like this) pop back up the charts as the new "it" thing. A few years ago it was late 70s hipster stuff like the Strokes, then dove into the new wave 80s thing with the Killers and Killers Clones.. Avenged Sevenfold with both 80s hairband and 90s grunge rock influences...who is to say that there couldn't be a late 90s rock revolution, especially if bands like Blackline can prove that it still sells. And its selling for us and the feedback is incredible... we're doing almost 300 new myspace friends a day and lots of online sales. But I still don't think the whole album is 90s sounding... I couldn't picture Armageddon Soul back
then...

Either way, I have written some new more "current sounding" stuff to possibley put out on the next shipment of albums, I'll post some mp3s because I'm curious as to your opinions eyesore (and whoever else wants to chime in). Also, can you describe some of the current bands and sounds you consider mainstream, I'm curious.

I'm glad you didn't take my post as just a jab at your band.

First, I admit that I didn't listen to all the tracks, so I shouldn't have maybe made a blanket statement about the band's sound. I did, however, listen to "Armaggedon Soul" and a few others.

You mentioned Nickelback and that's a good example of what I was talking about and one that I often reference. 'That song that they always write' gives us a good reference because we can compare how it was recast from album to album... the first version of it that I have is "How You Remind Me" from Silver Side Up(a metalhead who was embarassed he bought it gave me the CD) - I
haven't heard their previous albums, and don't know if the song existed there as well. Then I have "Someday" and the latest version, "Savin' Me". Now first off, I think Nickelback was always 'a pop band who wanted to be metal'. but comparing the subsequent versions of this tune, here's what I notice:

In each newer rendition:
1.) The guitars and bass are slightly "heavier" or as you say "more metal"-sounding, though there are more other guitars mixed in as well. The 'modern' rectifier type tone is the basis in all cases

2.)The lead vocals get more and more toward 'yelling' (which to me is lamer)

3.)The arrangements become more complicated (which to me is cooler, but most Gearslutz probably think it's lamer because they seem to tend toward sparse arrangements that to me sound unfinished, like a lot of Nirvana for instance.) This does make the guitars seem somewhat less prominent and more like yours in that respect(which is good for your mixes as they stand).

4.)The overall mix is at once trying to be heavier and 'poppier'

5.)Is getting closer to what I have been trying to do for a while now(which is cooler AND lamer, because the songs I'm referring haven't gotten finished yet!)


I also made a clip with a piece of "How You..", "Someday"(couldn't use the third song of theirs-don't join Real's download club), and the chorus of "Armageddon Soul" and looped it around several times, playing through the boombox I have set up here as a second reference, and what I noticed was indeed as I had described in my earlier post. Their guitars appear to have more body, whereas yours seem more undefined with mainly the top coming
through. I believe the sound you were going for on the guitars is the correct one to get close to theirs and that you would be worse off with the different approach you mentioned. I think it's just a matter of making the guitar continue to be perceived more that way once everything is in there. Again, the guitars sound the most similar on your intro part, which is a bit better than the verse which is a bit better than the chorus. Yes, that is to be expected to an extent, but they seem to handle it a little better.

I think it's mainly about how the bass, guitar, and vocal are working together, and I've been dealing with that as well. The guitar is the only instrument in your mix that I notice as suffering a little from the way you've blended everything.

Removing some low bass from the mix(as I've told you before elsewhere) will make your mixes more like theirs and might help give them some more apparent volume on lower end systems.

Now, IF you just really would like that other type guitar sound in "Armageddon Soul" because your own tastes or feelings changed, then by all means go for it, but I wouldn't do it for marketing purposes as I feel it could only hurt, if anything.

Also, I can relate to the idea of a project taking a while to complete. I've been pulling out some old stuff from a decade or so ago that never got finished and reworking it a little and testing to see if people would perceive it as old, but so far they aren't seeming to.

I'd love to check out those newer songs you speak of - I just hope you're not 'whining' in them ...but emo/screamo do tend toward the metal-type guitars also, but as far as their vocals, I certainly wouldn't miss them either if that trend dies out!

That drummer I mentioned in the previous post is into Slipknot and Mushroom Head and stuff like that which they don't play on the radio stations around here, but it does have a decent following.

For what it's worth, I did notice your guitars sounding better(and pretty good) when I played your stuff on systems that have some trouble producing highs (and maybe upper mids) very well.

Good to hear of your success so far. Promote, promote, promote!