need help with eq

[daveybasso]

ok this is a vocal test of my new Sterling Audio ST77 mic that i bought. it seems that no matter what mic i put in front of myself, i have to put like 8 db of treble into it to make it sound clear...also i find myself cutting out 300k and rolling off the lows below 60.

i feel i am doing something wrong, could one of you take this clip into your studios and see what eq settings might sound good on it? or at least tell me what in your opinion i need to do eq wise?, now i know that your room and my room are different so im not looking for specific etched in stone numbers, just general observations and advice on how to make this clip ( which is representive of the way pretty much all my vocal clips come out sounding right out of the mic) sound better, clearer, etc etc, because i can never get them to sound quite right and its driving me mad lol

thanks guys!

[couch11]

Mic sounds fine. A little bit sibilant on your voice though. Top end sounds fine and it doesn't sound boxy, but it does seem to be a bit notched in the mids. What room did you record that clip in and is that where you normally do vocals? That room has quite a bit of unpleasant reflections going on.

[daveybasso]

ok this is a vocal test of my new Sterling Audio ST77 mic that i bought. it seems that no matter what mic i put in front of myself, i have to put like 8 db of treble into it to make it sound clear...also i find myself cutting out 300k and rolling off the lows below 60.
i feel i am doing something wrong, is it possible one of you take this clip into your studios and see what eq settings might sound good on it? or at least tell me what in your opinion i need to do eq wise?, now i know that your room and my room are different so im not looking for specific etched in stone numbers, just general observations and advice on how to make this clip ( which is representive of the way pretty much all my vocal clips come out sounding right out of the mic) sound better, clearer, etc etc, because i can never get them to sound quite right and its driving me mad lol
thanks guys!

[ORC]

The St77 is a pretty decent mic for the money, unfortunately the Focusrite pre is not a very good pre for the money. i think thats what your problem is.

Please read this: Mercenary Audio - Why Doesn't Mercenary Carry Focusrite Gear?

[huejahfink]

Listened quickly on speakers and headphones.
I'm no mic expert at all, but that clip did not sound like it needed 8dB of treble adding to it to me.

[daveybasso]

Originally Posted by huejahfink

Listened quickly on speakers and headphones.
I'm no mic expert at all, but that clip did not sound like it needed 8dB of treble adding to it to me.

to me it just sounds like.....muffled a little bit like...something ugly in the 300 to 400 area......and to me it sounds like it could use more highs...doesnt sound as clear as i hear some vocals sounding....i dunno, perhapps its my room?..i have bass traps and absorbers and a cloud too

[MASSIVE Master]

Sounded fine here...

Now if it works properly with a particular voice in a particular mix is another story all together. But it certainly didn't sound odd...

[daveybasso]

Originally Posted by MASSIVE Master

Sounded fine here...

Now if it works properly with a particular voice in a particular mix is another story all together. But it certainly didn't sound odd...

im just confused as to why theres so much talk and hype between microphones, and then when i buy 6 or 7 of them ranging from bule, to akg, to rode, to neumann and make sameples...they all sound EXACTLY alike, like as if the same mic was used on all of them....is there really THAT little of a difference between mics? lol why does my voice sound exactly the same sonically no matter what mic i record it with?

[MASSIVE Master]

Originally Posted by daveybasso

im just confused as to why theres so much talk and hype between microphones, and then when i buy 6 or 7 of them ranging from bule, to akg, to rode, to neumann and make sameples...they all sound EXACTLY alike, like as if the same mic was used on all of them....is there really THAT little of a difference between mics? lol why does my voice sound exactly the same sonically no matter what mic i record it with?

I don't think they necessarily sound the same... Sure, when you record your voice and listen to your voice alone, plenty of them sound very similar.

(A) Try it on someone else's voice.

(B) Try it in the context of a mix.

(C) Try a different type of mic. And/or a different preamp.

No doubt, you can grab a dozen miscellaneous LDC's and eight of them are going to sound pretty similar. Not that sometimes a subtle difference won't make a difference - But a lot of those differences will be less-than-noticeable much of the time. But take [a U87 and a NT1a], [a SM7b and a M88], [a FatHead and a R121], [a SM81 and a KM184] and you're going to hear 8 completely different personalities.

[jruberto]

Yep, many of the differences are subtle and you might not perceive the differences in a solo track, depending on your monitoring environment and your depth of experience doing that type of critical listening.

Consider the task of EQ-ing a lead vocal in a mix -- a 1/2dB change at a particular frequency (esp high mids, where you'll find the most variation in different mics frequency response) will usually be readily apparent. Now consider the 2 to 3 dB variations that you see in the published specs of different mics at different frequencies, with dips and peaks at different freqs...

Record a lead vocal with a bunch of different mics & listen to each one in the context of the mix, suddenly the differences between them won't be as subtle.

+1 the focusrite probably isn't helping

[couch11]

You posted this question twice in two different forums. I replied in the other one but I'll reply again here. The mic sounds fine. If every mic sounds the same, then the problem is probably your mic pre. But if you really find yourself needing to boost the treble that much(and the sample that you posted has no eq), you need to go get your hearing checked.

[jruberto]

Originally Posted by couch11

But if you really find yourself needing to boost the treble that much(and the sample that you posted has no eq), you need to go get your hearing checked.

Or stop listening to top 40.

[daveybasso]

Originally Posted by couch11

Mic sounds fine. A little bit sibilant on your voice though. Top end sounds fine and it doesn't sound boxy, but it does seem to be a bit notched in the mids. What room did you record that clip in and is that where you normally do vocals? That room has quite a bit of unpleasant reflections going on.

the room is the next bedroom which is carpeted, and i have coated all walls with thick quilts, its very un-revflective. i know quilts kill highs, but do they kill mids as well? could that be why they sound notched? i could pull a few of them down

[daveybasso]

Originally Posted by jruberto

Yep, many of the differences are subtle and you might not perceive the differences in a solo track, depending on your monitoring environment and your depth of experience doing that type of critical listening.

Consider the task of EQ-ing a lead vocal in a mix -- a 1/2dB change at a particular frequency (esp high mids, where you'll find the most variation in different mics frequency response) will usually be readily apparent. Now consider the 2 to 3 dB variations that you see in the published specs of different mics at different frequencies, with dips and peaks at different freqs...

Record a lead vocal with a bunch of different mics & listen to each one in the context of the mix, suddenly the differences between them won't be as subtle.

+1 the focusrite probably isn't helping

i notice a few people now have pointed to the focusrite ISA one as a possible culprit as to why all my mics sound the same,
i bought this pre due to the tremendous amount of praise i saw it get online across several forums. id be interested to hear a little bit more about it from you guys as to why its not a good pre? i know its supposed to be " clean" and not colorized. also any suggestions on what you guys feel would be better for me in the 1k or under zone would be appreciated

[couch11]

Can you post a wav file of the mic instead of an mp3. I still hear reflections(do you have a mic stand in the room with you?).

Also, do you have a sample of another mic which you think sounds the same?

[daveybasso]

Originally Posted by couch11

Can you post a wav file of the mic instead of an mp3. I still hear reflections(do you have a mic stand in the room with you?).

Also, do you have a sample of another mic which you think sounds the same?

i do have a mic boom stand a real hefty one by samson in the room with me. and yes i have a few more vocal samples i can post when i get home..one from a blue reactor the ST77 again, and a rode nt1000

[ORC]

Originally Posted by daveybasso

i notice a few people now have pointed to the focusrite ISA one as a possible culprit as to why all my mics sound the same,
i bought this pre due to the tremendous amount of praise i saw it get online across several forums. id be interested to hear a little bit more about it from you guys as to why its not a good pre? i know its supposed to be " clean" and not colorized. also any suggestions on what you guys feel would be better for me in the 1k or under zone would be appreciated

The Focusrite isa pre, is just lifeless and bland, same goes for the Red series. Both are very one dimesional sounding. The original Isa modules which came from one of four Forte consoles ever built are just excellent, but are also very rare, and very expensive. Here's a rule regarding focusrite products. If it wasn't pulled from an original Forte console, it is absolute crap, so don't buy it, in fact, don't even look at it!

Great River mp1NV is killer. API 512 is killer, 312 is killer too, as is 212. Golden age neve copy with full Zen Pro mod is good. Chameleon Labs 7602 with Full Zen Pro Mod is good. Daking pre is good. Groove tubes brick is a good and inexpensive tube pre. Hamptone pre's are both excellent. Seventh Circle pre's are good. Inward Connections stuff is excellent..........................................................................................

[daveybasso]

Originally Posted by ORC

The Focusrite isa pre, is just lifeless and bland, same goes for the Red series. Both are very one dimesional sounding. The original Isa modules which came from one of four Forte consoles ever built are just excellent, but are also very rare, and very expensive. Here's a rule regarding focusrite products. If it wasn't pulled from an original Forte console, it is absolute crap, so don't buy it, in fact, don't even look at it!

Great River mp1NV is killer. API 512 is killer, 312 is killer too, as is 212. Golden age neve copy with full Zen Pro mod is good. Chameleon Labs 7602 with Full Zen Pro Mod is good. Daking pre is good. Groove tubes brick is a good and inexpensive tube pre. Hamptone pre's are both excellent. Seventh Circle pre's are good. Inward Connections stuff is excellent..........................................................................................

ok ill bite, at this point im so frustrated with how bland my vocal sounds that ill try a new pre...... ill try and sell my isa one, and when i do, ill get something from mercenary...can you suggest something killer that isnt a card meant to be screwed into a board?..like..an external amp box like the isa was? also for 1000 or under?

[couch11]

Originally Posted by daveybasso

ok ill bite, at this point im so frustrated with how bland my vocal sounds that ill try a new pre...... ill try and sell my isa one, and when i do, ill get something from mercenary...most likely the API 512

Please post other examples of other mics before you go selling stuff. Also I meant to say do you have a MUSIC stand in your vocal room(not mic stand).

[daveybasso]

Originally Posted by couch11

Please post other examples of other mics before you go selling stuff. Also I meant to say do you have a MUSIC stand in your vocal room(not mic stand).

sure, i dont get home for another 2 hrs but i will when i get there.....they are just all gonna sound the same though, just lettin ya know in advance
lol... ithink the person saying its my pre is right....its the only factor that has remained the same throughout all the different mics ive tried

[daveybasso]

Originally Posted by couch11

Please post other examples of other mics before you go selling stuff. Also I meant to say do you have a MUSIC stand in your vocal room(not mic stand).

i DO have a music stand, but ive truned it flat and it now serves as a stand for the ART Pro VLA II...i keep that right to the left of the mic so i can quickly make adjustments. but i dont sing towards it..i sing away from it

[couch11]

Originally Posted by daveybasso

sure, i dont get home for another 2 hrs but i will when i get there.....they are just all gonna sound the same though, just lettin ya know in advance
lol... ithink the person saying its my pre is right....its the only factor that has remained the same throughout all the different mics ive tried

Yes but you stated that you are having to eq the sound to make it sound open and the sample you already posted isn't really dark(although the mp3 version might be a bit weird because there is almost a brick wall filter at 16kHz).

[daveybasso]

Originally Posted by couch11

Yes but you stated that you are having to eq the sound to make it sound open and the sample you already posted isn't really dark(although the mp3 version might be a bit weird because there is almost a brick wall filter at 16kHz).

i tried to post the wav file originally but it was larger than what is allowed
...but ill just make 3 test recordings when i get home using all 4 mics and make them smaller so that they wil post as wav

[ORC]

You don't have to buy from Mercenary, but definately buy a Great River mp1-NV. The difference in sound quality will astound you. This is a pre you will love for the rest of your life. Big, ballsy, 3 dimensional, and air to die for. Just killer on vocals, guitars, drums, and the DI is great for bass. You'll be getting one of the best of the best for about a grand brand new. Later you can buy the eq1 NV and have a KILLER channel strip. I would choose the Great River pre/eq combo over a Neve 1073, or 1081.

[daveybasso]

Originally Posted by ORC

You don't have to buy from Mercenary, but definately buy a Great River mp1-NV. The difference in sound quality will astound you. This is a pre you will love for the rest of your life. Big, ballsy, 3 dimensional, and air to die for. Just killer on vocals, guitars, drums, and the DI is great for bass. You'll be getting one of the best of the best for about a grand brand new. Later you can buy the eq1 NV and have a KILLER channel strip.

oh id love to buy it, but i dont have a board to screw it into....its basically a card that screwes into a board unless im mistaken.....if there is a freestanding box version of that id buy that

[daveybasso]

ok here they are! all 4 of my mics back to back....i dont hear a shred of difference...but hopefully the pros here will ( im not pro obviously LOL )


i did nothing to these tracks except for mute all the spaces between the takes to zero volume ( hand ducked )

Chain:---> Mic ----> ISA ONE-----> Art PRO VLA II(bypass)-------->Focusrite 8i6-----> PC------> Adobe Audition 3.0 16 bit/32 downsampled to 16 bit/44.1

[couch11]

Are you really recording at 32kHz? That would explain the brick wall filter at 16kHz. Why are you recording at 44.1kHz 24bit or 48kHz 24bit?

Next, just go from the microphone ---> to your convertor. Unhook the compressor(yes I know it is in bypass). Also, get closer to the mics(about 3 inches away).

Right now, I'm not hearing any difference in microphones.

[daveybasso]

Originally Posted by couch11

Are you really recording at 32kHz? That would explain the brick wall filter at 16kHz. Why are you recording at 44.1kHz 24bit or 48kHz 24bit?

Next, just go from the microphone ---> to your convertor. Unhook the compressor(yes I know it is in bypass). Also, get closer to the mics(about 3 inches away).

Right now, I'm not hearing any difference in microphones.

i recorded that at adobe auditions default of 44.1-32 bit then i converted it to cd quality 44.1-16 bit.

i really wanna try my hand at recording outside like this guy--> http://www.youtube.com/user/ThomCraw.../7/59z27AnGf1g

i just need to get a good chain combo going i guess lol

[daveybasso]

Originally Posted by couch11

Are you really recording at 32kHz? That would explain the brick wall filter at 16kHz. Why are you recording at 44.1kHz 24bit or 48kHz 24bit?

Next, just go from the microphone ---> to your convertor. Unhook the compressor(yes I know it is in bypass). Also, get closer to the mics(about 3 inches away).

Right now, I'm not hearing any difference in microphones.

exactly lol, this is my issue.....ive got 4 different mics and they all sound the same on my voice.....im glad someone else besides me sees that lol....am i really gonna have to spend 3k on a mic to hear a difference? lol

[daveybasso]

these are the choices i am given in Adobe Audition 3.0 to record in...i usually do mono 44.1 32 bit(float) for vocals,then when the entire song is done, i downsample to cd quality...44.1 and 16 bits,, is this correct? would it be better to record vox at 96k and 32 bit then when done downsample to 44.1 16 bit?